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Re: OA-10A, 44-34037

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  • cdagnese
    Adolph: When looking at parts for a number, pay particular attention to the inside of inspection plates (including tank plates) for a stenciled or stamped
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 1, 2003
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      Adolph:

      When looking at parts for a number, pay particular attention to the
      inside of inspection plates (including tank plates) for a stenciled
      or stamped number, major structural members (bulkheads, pylon
      supports, etc.) for a stamped in number. Many mfrs did this to keep
      track of the pieces on the assembly line, particularly those that
      were hand fit to the airplane (gear doors, keel, etc.).

      Carl D'Agnese


      --- In PBY@yahoogroups.com, "Ragnar J Ragnarsson" <ragsie@c...> wrote:
      > Adolph,
      >
      > Yes, I agree that it's the best guess so far, and I'd be rather
      > surprised if it turned out not to be the case, but we're still
      missing
      > the hard evidence. Perhaps you'll find some evidence of its c/n or
      s/n
      > on the airframe once you start tearing it apart, although I've been
      > told by a CanVic-built Canso owner that no such evidence is to be
      > found on Canadian Vickers-built airframes.
      >
      > Ragnar
      >
    • Ragnar J Ragnarsson
      Adolph, Check also the inside of inspection hatches. I ve seen one such hatch from a Consolidated San Diego-built PBY-5A with the USN BuNo. stencilled on its
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2003
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        Adolph,

        Check also the inside of inspection hatches. I've seen one such hatch
        from a Consolidated San Diego-built PBY-5A with the USN BuNo.
        stencilled on its inside.

        That is how we were able to identify the wreckage of RAF Catalina
        Mk.III, s/n FP535, when it became entangled in the warp of a fishing
        trawler 100 miles west of Iceland in 1983. This plane had failed to
        return from a Search & Rescue mission in November 1942 and was thought
        to have been lost northeast of Iceland. The trawler's crew returned
        the wreckage to the ocean, except for a single inspection hatch that
        had USN BuNo. 05010 stencilled on its inside, the exact BuNo. of the
        PBY-5A diverted to the RAF as FP535.

        I don't know whether that was Canadian Vickers' practise, but it
        wouldn't be much trouble to check.

        Ragnar




        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "cdagnese" <cdagnese@...>
        To: <PBY@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:27 PM
        Subject: [PBY] Re: OA-10A, 44-34037


        >
        > Adolph:
        >
        > When looking at parts for a number, pay particular attention to the
        > inside of inspection plates (including tank plates) for a stenciled
        > or stamped number, major structural members (bulkheads, pylon
        > supports, etc.) for a stamped in number. Many mfrs did this to
        keep
        > track of the pieces on the assembly line, particularly those that
        > were hand fit to the airplane (gear doors, keel, etc.).
        >
        > Carl D'Agnese
        >
        >
        > --- In PBY@yahoogroups.com, "Ragnar J Ragnarsson" <ragsie@c...>
        wrote:
        > > Adolph,
        > >
        > > Yes, I agree that it's the best guess so far, and I'd be rather
        > > surprised if it turned out not to be the case, but we're still
        > missing
        > > the hard evidence. Perhaps you'll find some evidence of its c/n or
        > s/n
        > > on the airframe once you start tearing it apart, although I've
        been
        > > told by a CanVic-built Canso owner that no such evidence is to be
        > > found on Canadian Vickers-built airframes.
        > >
        > > Ragnar
        > >
        >
        >
        >
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      • follasha
        We have S/N plates in our Canadian Vickers built A/C, they are located in the galley compartment on the port side (wheel well). There are two plates, one
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 2, 2003
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          We have S/N plates in our Canadian Vickers built A/C, they are
          located in the galley compartment on the port side (wheel well).
          There are two plates, one designating the aircraft as PBV-1A CV-357
          with its date of manufacture, and the other from 1955 redesignating
          it a model 28-5ACF. I'm not sure if this arrangement is standard.

          Incidentally the fact that we have both plates plus some missing
          paperwork concerning the conversion precluded us form liscencing the
          aircraft as a commercial aircraft in this country.

          Harry Follas


          --- In PBY@yahoogroups.com, "Ragnar J Ragnarsson" <ragsie@c...> wrote:
          > Adolph,
          >
          > Check also the inside of inspection hatches. I've seen one such
          hatch
          > from a Consolidated San Diego-built PBY-5A with the USN BuNo.
          > stencilled on its inside.
          >
          > That is how we were able to identify the wreckage of RAF Catalina
          > Mk.III, s/n FP535, when it became entangled in the warp of a fishing
          > trawler 100 miles west of Iceland in 1983. This plane had failed to
          > return from a Search & Rescue mission in November 1942 and was
          thought
          > to have been lost northeast of Iceland. The trawler's crew returned
          > the wreckage to the ocean, except for a single inspection hatch that
          > had USN BuNo. 05010 stencilled on its inside, the exact BuNo. of the
          > PBY-5A diverted to the RAF as FP535.
          >
          > I don't know whether that was Canadian Vickers' practise, but it
          > wouldn't be much trouble to check.
          >
          > Ragnar
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "cdagnese" <cdagnese@h...>
          > To: <PBY@yahoogroups.com>
          > Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 2:27 PM
          > Subject: [PBY] Re: OA-10A, 44-34037
          >
          >
          > >
          > > Adolph:
          > >
          > > When looking at parts for a number, pay particular attention to
          the
          > > inside of inspection plates (including tank plates) for a
          stenciled
          > > or stamped number, major structural members (bulkheads, pylon
          > > supports, etc.) for a stamped in number. Many mfrs did this to
          > keep
          > > track of the pieces on the assembly line, particularly those that
          > > were hand fit to the airplane (gear doors, keel, etc.).
          > >
          > > Carl D'Agnese
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In PBY@yahoogroups.com, "Ragnar J Ragnarsson" <ragsie@c...>
          > wrote:
          > > > Adolph,
          > > >
          > > > Yes, I agree that it's the best guess so far, and I'd be rather
          > > > surprised if it turned out not to be the case, but we're still
          > > missing
          > > > the hard evidence. Perhaps you'll find some evidence of its c/n
          or
          > > s/n
          > > > on the airframe once you start tearing it apart, although I've
          > been
          > > > told by a CanVic-built Canso owner that no such evidence is to
          be
          > > > found on Canadian Vickers-built airframes.
          > > >
          > > > Ragnar
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups
          > Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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          > > No Late Fees & Free Shipping.
          > > Try Netflix for FREE!
          > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/xlw.sC/XP.FAA/3jkFAA/KmiolB/TM
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        • cdagnese
          Harry: If you can send me the history that you have with whatever registrations, serial numbers, N numbers and the date of conversion to a 28-5ACF, I ll try
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2003
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            Harry:

            If you can send me the history that you have with whatever
            registrations, serial numbers,"N" numbers and the date of conversion
            to a 28-5ACF, I'll try to locate the FAA form 337 that authorized the
            conversion in the FAA Archives.

            Carl D'Agnese




            --- In PBY@yahoogroups.com, "follasha" <follasha@i...> wrote:
            > We have S/N plates in our Canadian Vickers built A/C, they are
            > located in the galley compartment on the port side (wheel well).
            > There are two plates, one designating the aircraft as PBV-1A CV-357
            > with its date of manufacture, and the other from 1955 redesignating
            > it a model 28-5ACF. I'm not sure if this arrangement is standard.
            >
            > Incidentally the fact that we have both plates plus some missing
            > paperwork concerning the conversion precluded us form liscencing
            the
            > aircraft as a commercial aircraft in this country.
            >
            > Harry Follas
            >
          • Ragnar J Ragnarsson
            Adolph, I just located the USN History Card for BuNo. 21232 and notice that it says that the plane was added to Navy figures in July 1946 (the year 1946 is
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 14, 2003
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              Adolph,

              I just located the USN History Card for BuNo. 21232 and notice that it
              says that the plane was added to Navy figures in July 1946 (the year
              "1946" is handwritten and presumably not entered at the same time as
              the other text which is typed). From July 1946 to January 1947 the
              plane is recorded as awaiting reconditioning at Pearl and stricken at
              the end of that month, 31 January 1947. The strike code, 8-8-Y,
              translates into:

              8 - Transfer of custody from the USN.
              8 - Misc. losses, incl. diversions from Navy custody
              Y - Excess aircraft directed to be stricken by CNO or BuAer.

              Even if the hard evidence is still missing, I now feel more confident
              than ever that USAAF OA-10A #44-34047 is the plane that became BuNo.
              21232.

              Ragnar


              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Adolph P. Meisch" <apmsr@...>
              To: <PBY@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 12:12 AM
              Subject: Re: [PBY] OA-10A, 44-34037


              >
              > Ragnar,
              >
              > Yes I realize that the information that you provided Archie is
              only an assumption. However it looks to me as though this probably the
              same aircraft that the AAF card shows was transferred to the Navy at
              Pearl in April of 1946, and that the date 1945 that the Navy shows is
              probably a missprint. at any rate it is better information than we
              have found up to now. If anyone else out there has any better
              information please let me know. The aircraft BuNo. 21232 was after the
              war converted to a SuperCat and owned by Ellis Alaska Airlines and
              later by Antilles Airboats. We purchased it from "Slafco" at Mosses
              Lake Wastington, and intend to use it as a Memorial to all who flew in
              PBYs as aircrew and all who were rescued by PBYs. Take a look at our
              web-site www.pbyma.org
              >
              > Sincerly
              > Adolph
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: Ragnar J Ragnarsson
              > To: PBY@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 3:16 PM
              > Subject: Re: [PBY] OA-10A, 44-34037
              >
              >
              > Adolph,
              >
              > I presume the information that 44-34037 is the OA-10A that
              [possibly?]
              > became BuNo. 21232, came from AFHRA (Air Forces Historical
              Research
              > Agency) at Maxwell AFB. If so, it is presumably based on
              information I
              > provided AFHRA in reply to their query I received from them
              yesterday
              > on the subject, in which case I wish to stress that I did not say
              that
              > 44-34037 was the plane that became BuNo. 21232, only that I
              strongly
              > suspected it was.
              >
              > Following is my message to AFHRA, 30 October 2003:
              >
              > Quote:
              > Dear Archie,
              >
              > I'm afraid I don't have positive confirmation of what aircraft
              that
              > is, although I do have a hunch. It's USN card says it was received
              > from the USAAF in Hawaii in 1945. I know of only one OA-10A that
              was
              > transferred from the AAF to the USN, this being 44-34037, but the
              date
              > of diversion is given as 25 April 1946 on its AAF card. This
              > particular plane was formerly assigned to the 4th ERS, which puts
              it
              > in the right place (Pacific), the last entry on its ARC reading:
              >
              > PACIFIC T. SP DIV NAVY R OA10A 8 40 44 34037 42546 62146
              >
              > I don't know what "T.SP" stands for, but most of 4th ERS' OA-10As
              were
              > disposed of to 363rd ASG for disposition or salvage in the 1946/47
              > period.
              >
              > Despite the date discrepancy (1945 might well be an error on the
              USN
              > card), I strongly suspect this is the aircraft that became BuNo.
              > 21232.
              >
              > Best regards,
              > Ragnar
              > Unquote
              >
              > A suspicion, even a strong one, is a far cry from being proof,
              which
              > is the point I want to make here so there be no misunderstanding.
              >
              > Ragnar
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "Adolph P. Meisch" <apmsr@...>
              > To: <PBY@yahoogroups.com>
              > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2003 5:27 PM
              > Subject: [PBY] OA-10A, 44-34037
              >
              >
              > > Do any of you AAF people have any information on the history of
              the
              > AO-10A, 44-34037? This aircraft was transferred transferred to
              the
              > US Navy At Pearl Harbor in April of 1946 to become Bu.No, 21232.
              It is
              > now owned by the PBYMA and we would like to learn as much as we
              can
              > of it's WW II history. We believe that it was assigned to the 4th
              ERS
              > in the Pacific.
              > >
              > > Thank you for any information that you can give us.
              > >
              > > Adolph P. Meisch Sr.
              > > apmsr@oakharbor,net
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
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