dance in period or not
- What is period? Are you early or late within the SCA time definition? We
seem to accept the Cavalier types with their light weapons, why not accept
dances of the same time frame?
As far a s Hole in the Wall; don't the good gentles get up and dance when
that dance is used? I've seen the floor full of dancers that then stayed to
learn truly period dances. They would have just sat around the sides of the
dance hall drinking and making noise if they hadn't been encouraged to get
up and shuffle their feet and flirt a bit. Is that so bad? Its just like
the bardic circle with more modern sounding "folk songs" that least get the
performers started. They do learn period songs and poems as time goes by.
Maybe its like going off to war the first time in a nylon tent and nylon
sleeping bag. Eventually you get a periond looking or truly period
pavillion, a nice bed(feather of course), rugs, cook over a fire(is that
really safe in period?) and make every effort to be "period".
Please don't stomp on the newly interested gentles because they don't have
all the details worked out, or those of us that try to encourage the newbies
to learn and get involved. I have a blast doing Hole-in-the -Wall and at
our Yule revel, we even say a stick jock actually dance and get it. That
was a moment I will cherish for a long time. The stick jock has been
playing for a long time by the way!
Now you have my opinion, see you on the dance floor o around a bardic
somewhere and enjoying every bit.
ps.the link to Eric Praetzel's site contains soo much info. Eric is great
at gathering music for dancers to use and musicians to learn and has the
copywrite info available for SCA use. SM
I know that Horses Branle dates to the 1580's, which certainly makes
it period for the SCA. New Alman comes from a manuscript dated to
1570; Black Alman is first described in a 1594 ms. These should also
The others are all post-period; there are lots of arguments on both
sides as to why they should or should not be done in the SCA. (And
that's a whole 'nother can of worms ...)
Sorry I was unclear ... :)
And by the way, the SCA Renaissance Dance Page
http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/dance.html has lots of good links. Also,
one of the sites Gwydion posted
(http://sca.uwaterloo.ca/~praetzel/sca-music.html) is a great place
to go to download dance music.
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
- --- In email@example.com, "Morris Schaefer" <mtnsounds@h...>
> What is period? Are you early or late within the SCA timedefinition? We
> seem to accept the Cavalier types with their light weapons, why notaccept
> dances of the same time frame?<<<
Actually (speaking for myself and what is done at Caerthe's dance
practice), we do. Our dance repertoire includes Playford's English
Country Dances from 1651 -- and one or two dances from the third
edition of the same book, such as Black Nag.
Though I do feel obliged to point out that light weapons were widely
in use at least a century prior to the Cavalier period ... <grin>
>>>>As far a s Hole in the Wall; don't the good gentles get up and
> that dance is used?<<<
I have a theory about that:
I've observed that people are happier and have more fun when they're
in their "comfort zone" -- doing familiar things in familiar
settings. Hole In The Wall is in many peoples' "comfort zone",
because it's one of the first dances they learned in the SCA, and
because everybody else knows it, and they've seen other people doing
It's the first dance they learn because the people who are teaching
it are also in their "comfort zone" when they teach it -- they know
it really well, they've taught it before, etc.
Which, in turn, is because they learned it from people who were in
their "comfort zone". And so on. I don't know for sure, but my
theory is that the first people to teach HITW in the SCA did so
because they were familiar with the dance from some other folk or
contra dance group, so it was in their "comfort zone".
Now, there's no inherent reason why HITW is the only dance for which
this can work. It is, in fact, not really that easy to teach. It
only seems that way because when it is taught in the SCA, the group
usually includes a large number of people who have done it before,
and they all help pull the new people through. I have, however, seen
a very experienced teacher of historical dance struggle desperately
in trying to teach HITW to a room full of people where only a handful
of the dancers had ever done it before. Let's just say it *wasn't*
I would submit that if the first dance people had ever learned in the
SCA was ... oh, I dunno, let's say Petit Riens (a 15th century
Italian dance) ... they'd enjoy that just as much, and would in fact
think that a dance where you pretty much stand around in a line was
awfully boring. :)
Be that as it may ... I understand that for most folks out there,
expanding their "comfort zone" is not something they do readily.
There are people out there who will never want to do any dance except
HITW. That's fine; I certainly can't force anybody to do any dance
they don't want to do, and even if I could, I wouldn't. They
wouldn't have any fun, and neither would I.
On the other hand, I can and do try to create a new "comfort zone"
for people by teaching fun dances that just happen to be period. I
also happen to derive a great deal of enjoyment from doing so. And
after all, the SCA is supposed to be about having fun, isn't it? If
I'm having fun, and the people I'm dancing with are having fun, then
we've all achieved our goal!
What it comes down to, I guess, is a matter of choices. With the
wonder of the Internet, downloading music and instructions for dances
is as easy as a few clicks of a mouse. So it takes no more effort to
get everything you need to learn and/or teach a period dance than it
does for a non-period dance. The choice is yours.
I've chosen to focus on dances that are period or at least "near"
period; I think they're great fun, and I think other folks can and do
enjoy them too. Other people are free to make other choices; I only
ask in return that I not be taken to task for making the choices I
have made. Fair enough?
> Its just like
> the bardic circle with more modern sounding "folk songs" that least
> performers started. They do learn period songs and poems as timegoes by.
> Maybe its like going off to war the first time in a nylon tent andnylon
> sleeping bag. Eventually you get a periond looking or truly periodthat
> pavillion, a nice bed(feather of course), rugs, cook over a fire(is
> really safe in period?) and make every effort to be "period".<<<
Yep, I've been there and done that, too. And there's nothing wrong
with that; learning as we go along is part of the fun of the SCA.
The joy of discovery is one that can't be duplicated.
I just want to help make information available so that when people
are ready to take that next step, they don't have to completely re-
invent the wheel. That's also one of the joys of the SCA -- people
helping other people, sharing what they've learned, and learning
> Please don't stomp on the newly interested gentles because they
> all the details worked out, or those of us that try to encouragethe newbies
> to learn and get involved.<<<<
If I have "stomped" on anyone, I apologize. My comments about period
vs. non-period dances were made simply because someone asked which
dances were period and which ones weren't. Since I happened to have
that information available, I provided it. That's all I meant to do,
> Now you have my opinion, see you on the dance floor o around a
> somewhere and enjoying every bit.<<<
I look forward to it!
Barony of Caerthe, Outlands