Re: [OriginsTalk] Re: Beneficial mutations in humans/ was: Measuring information
- Dave O. writes:
> ID fails at the philosophic level.Paul: It's IC not ID. ID is a broader concept. Some
proponents of Intelligent Design have incorporated
Behe's irreducible complexity but it remains a small
subset of ID. In addition, it is evaluated at an
empirical level not a pholosophical one.
It does not
> require specificPaul: Behe's actual argument was that an IC system
> evolutionary pathways to refute its claims.
> Essentially the ID argument runs like this:
> X is a system with Y necessary parts.
> Y necessary parts cannot evolve all at once,
> therefore X did not evolve by mutation and natural
would not result from "slight, successive
modifications of a precursor system" and that "if a
biological system cannot be produced gradually it
would have to arise as an integrated unit." From
"Darwin's Black Box.'
>Paul: You mean false to theory unless you have factual
> The problem with this argument is that systems do
> not need to
> evolve all at once to end up with Y necessary parts,
> thus the
> second premise above is simply false to fact.
documentation of a one step at a time evolution of an
irreducibly complex system.
What the ID argument
> is doing is ignoring the fact that mutations notPaul: The usual effects of mutations, when not
> only add functionality,
neutral, are the removal or impairment of an already
they remove redundant functionality leaving behind
systems that are fragile but effective.
Paul: It sounds good except for the fact that
mutations more often remove advantagous functions and
leave the affected organism more fragile.
- On 2 Dec 2003 at 10:17, Neil Keith Habermehl wrote:
>Information can also be quantified, without regard to its
> For orinary human readers 2) contains more useful information.
> For a computer 01000101 11010110 contains more useful information
> For a DNA molecule AGTCTAGCAT contains more useful information.
> Information has to be recognized and used within some context, so
> the original question is malformed.
usefulness by noting how many bits it takes to exactly specify it.
By that measure, though, raw, random noise is the most information