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Re: The Gaps are Real!

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  • JamesG
    gluadys: No physical thing can represent God. Not according to Christianity. Granted, God is understood in Christian theology and tradition to be a spiritual
    Message 1 of 40 , Dec 30, 2012
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      gluadys: "No physical thing can represent God."

      Not according to Christianity. Granted, God is understood in Christian theology and tradition to be a spiritual being, but it is also understood that God took on human flesh to rescue human beings from their sin. Christianity holds that Jesus Christ, a physical human being, not only represented God, He was (and is) God. (I'm going to make no effort here to explain the triune God of Christianity, a paradox that lies beyond human explanation.)

      gluadys: "...the theory of evolution (including natural selection) has been largely substantiated by observation and experiment."

      Only in the eyes of those who are eager to accept the theory. Those lacking an eagerness to be convinced will likely see that the evidence for Darwinian theory often fails to live up to the claims of the theory, especially its macroevolutionary claims. There is, for example, no clear evidence showing that natural selection, acting on random variations, is a mechanism capable of bringing into being complex biological forms, systems, structures, and processes. The accomplishments of Darwinian evolution that have arguably been observed - such as producing bacterial resistance to antibiotics, or fixing a favorable color pattern in peppered moths - are quite unimpressive relative to the vast creative claims made on behalf of Darwinian evolution.

      Jim in Missouri
    • Charles Palm
      Gluadys: Actually, the concepts of homology and analogy pre-date the theory of evolution. Once evolution was understood, the biological basis of homology and
      Message 40 of 40 , Jan 2, 2013
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        Gluadys: Actually, the concepts of homology and analogy pre-date the
        theory of evolution. Once evolution was understood, the biological basis of
        homology and analogy was better understood. As the page you linked to
        explains, some similarities are due to inheritance from a common ancestor.
        Some have a different cause. Evolution is involved in both (in particular
        natural selection) but in different ways. It is blatant nonsense to call
        this "invented" or outdated. Neither is the case. What is the case is that
        analogies due to convergent evolution tell us nothing useful about common
        descent.

        Charles P: Homologous and analogous mean the same thing. Both words mean
        that body parts are "alike" in different living things.

        1 The body parts of a male human and a female human are "alike" but it is
        self evident that there are some important dissimilarities.

        2 The body parts of animals with the ability of echolocation are "alike"
        but it is self evident that there are some important dissimilarities.

        Homologous: http://thesaurus.com/browse/homologous?s=t homologous
        features are those that were originally the same in
        evolutionary development but have adapted differently (arms of humans,
        forelegs of cats, etc.); analogous features are those that resemble one
        another in function but are traceable back to completely different origins.

        Analogous: http://thesaurus.com/browse/analogous?s=t homologous features
        are those that were originally the same in evolutionary development but
        have adapted differently (arms of humans, forelegs ofcats, etc.); analogous
        features are those that resemble one another in function but are traceable
        back to completely different origins.

        1 The body parts of a male human and a female human are "alike" but it is
        self evident that there are some important dissimilarities. The definition
        of homologous requires a science writer to says that those dissimilarities
        are "homologous" and those dissimilarities are not "analogous". How do we
        know for sure? Because the reasoning is circular. We believe that human
        males and human females have a common ancestor, therefore the body parts
        that are alike are "homologous".

        2 The body parts of animals with the ability of echolocation are "alike"
        but it is self evident that there are some important dissimilarities. The
        definition of homologous requires a science writer to says that those
        dissimilarities are "not homologous" and those dissimilarities are
        "analogous". How do we know for sure? Because the reasoning is circular.
        We believe that the animals of different groups with the ability of
        echolocation do not have a common ancestor, therefore the body parts that
        are alike are "analogous".

        http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/similarity_hs_01 It works
        the same way in biology.

        1 The science writer believes that body parts of a male human and a female
        human are "alike" and the science writer believes that those features are
        those that were originally the same in evolutionary development but have
        adapted differently. The science writer is required to describe those body
        parts as "homologous".

        2 The science writer believes that body parts of animal echolocation are
        "alike" and the science writer believes that those features are those that
        resemble one another in function but are traceable back to completely
        different origins. The science writer is required to describe those body
        parts as "analogous".

        Charles P: Please verify this for yourselves. There is only belief in
        common ancestry and belief in convergent evolution. The only reliable
        evidence for ancestry is DNA evidence. There is no reliable evidence for
        convergent evolution.

        1 The science writers are required, by definition and because of their
        beliefs, to say that homologous body parts are evidence for common ancestry.

        2 The science writers are required, by definition and because of their
        beliefs, to say that analogous body parts are evidence for convergent
        evolution.

        Charles P: Many science writers do not understand this circular reasoning.
        We went through the same kind of circular reasoning when we discussed
        transition forms as evidence for the old Theory of Evolution. The problems
        of the circular reasoning come from not having empirical and verifiable
        evidence that can be verified by others. Common design is the best
        description for animal echolocation.

        **********************************************

        James A Shapiro: What Is the Best Way to Deal With Supernaturalists in
        Science and Evolution?

        1 Rather than accept that evolution science is always a tentative work in
        progress, conventional evolutionists make absolutist statements like "all
        the facts are on my side." Making obviously inflated and unrealistic
        assertions is hardly likely to convince anyone who has serious questions.

        2 We need to emphasize that science operates strictly within the natural
        world and treats all theories as subject to criticism, revision and
        (ultimately) replacement. Think of Newtonian ideas of space, time and
        gravity as compared to Einsteinian general relativity. There is no reason
        to believe that evolution science is in any way special in this regard.

        3 In summary, pro-evolution debaters will enjoy far more success by active
        engagement with evolution doubters. We need to demonstrate that evolution
        science is alive and well, as well as show how it is making remarkable
        progress through the application of molecular technologies -- even though
        it does not have all the answers.

        4 To the thoughtful scientist whose job is to uncover natural processes,
        this is surely a better way of advocating the scientific method than
        dogmatically asserting that we found all the scientific principles we need
        in centuries past.


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