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How spiral galaxies formed

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  • VictorM
    Dr. Susan A. Kassin and 13 collaborators published an article on how galaxies change The Epoch of Disk Settling: z ~ 1 to Now in the Astrophysical Journal.
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 24, 2012
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      Dr. Susan A. Kassin and 13 collaborators published an article on how galaxies change "The Epoch of Disk Settling: z ~ 1 to Now" in the Astrophysical Journal. They included all shapes of galaxies in their study, even disturbed galaxies, as long as they were bright enough to obtain their spectra. Using observations with the 10 Meter Keck and the Hubble Space Telescope, they found that early galaxies were spectrally more disordered than later ones. The authors claim the galaxies formed the disk shapes we often see in nearby galaxies by a process of change. In nearby galaxies, the stars and gas often rotate in the same direction in a plane but this orderly pattern was not so evident in the era when z=1.

      It is important when analyzing scientific claims to separate the stories from the underlying assumptions. What does z=1 mean? Z is a mathematical symbol. It has no actual existence in nature, since no one has actually seen a z. How do astronomers calculate the value of their z symbols? They start with their first law. What first law? The Bible predicts that in the last days mockers will come obfuscating that age of the plural heavens with a first law (arche ktiseous) that all things remain the same (2 Peter 3:3 - 6). Although the pagan Greeks tried to invent science, they were unsuccessful because they could not imagine a kosmos where matter is not continually changing itself. More than a thousand years later, medieval Catholic scholars laid the foundation for western science by imagining that the essence of substance is changeless. (In their theology, God was supposedly absolutely changeless, so they imagined that created matter is also unchanging). The assumption that matter is not changing itself became the basis for the western definitions of physics, empirical measuring, scientific methods and laws. Using this law-like assumption, astronomers compare ancient light with the light from local atoms. They call the galaxies whose light shines at 50% of the frequencies of modern atoms, the era when z=1.

      Dr Susan is right that galaxies changed their shapes over the eons. This is visible, because we see the past at many ranges. We often find the earliest spiral galaxies clustered around large ellipticals. Some of those ancient cores shine at 9% of the frequencies of modern atoms. We observe strings of equally spaced star globs, like beads on a necklace, surrounding some of those early galaxies. At many ranges, we observe how streams of stars came out from the compact cores as billions of galaxies visibly grew into huge, local growth spirals. What is visible is a violation of the creed of all scientists, with which they contrived their empirical, mathematical versions of reality. This is why astronomers speculated about black holes, invisible matter, spreading vacuums, accretion of stars from dust and the vacuum of space-time stretching light. The scientific universe is 99% invisible in order to prevent what is visible from being so.

      http://www.godsriddle.info/2012/10/how-spiral-galaxies-form.html
      The picture is in the public domain, since it comes from NASA. Credit: NASA /ESA / G. Bacon, STScI. It is an artist's impression of an ancient super, luminous quasar (an ancient super bright galaxy that is compact like a star). The artist added a jet to the image, because many closer quasars and active galactic nuclei are observed to jet out streams of matter. Astronomers used an image of a distant super luminous quasar from the Hubble Space Telescope. They used an algorithm to subtract the core light using the negative image of a nearby star. They hoped to see dim stars around the core of the quasar. Astronomers saw nothing, no stars, no dust structure and of course no black hole, when they subtracted the light from the core. The press release compared this to seeing a forest fire without finding burning trees. "The forest fire is complete, not a tree is spared," said Rogier Windhurst of Arizona State University.

      There is a simpler explanation that does not depend on black holes, undetectable accretion or dust falling into an invisible hole. What we see is the biblical creation, as spelled out in the Bible. First God created (completed action) the plural heavens and the earth. At the earliest stage, the Earth was not formed, without extension, until He continued to command light to continue to be. Indeed, light dithering around in matter gives it the ability to have extension. Half way through the creation week He continued to form the Sun, Moon and stars and continued to place them in the spreading place (Hebrew raqiya). According to the Bible, He continues to finish the heavens and the Earth, even after the six creation days. Indeed, the continents only fit together on a tiny globe, without major seas. A global expansion seam continues to form fresh earth crust in every ocean. We observe countless stars spreading out and coming out from the core of billions of galaxies. According to the Bible, He continues to call the stars to come out in unbroken continuity. He continues to spread out the plural heavens (not the vacuum of space) like a tent to dwell in. Evidently matter is continuing to receive form as a relation with light as God continues to command light to continue to be, exactly as stated in the Scriptures.

      A scientifically minded person might ask, how could the universe form in only 6,000 years? We observe how the atomic clocks and the star stream orbits continue to accelerate outwards in countless galaxies. Just a few thousand years ago, our ancestors mentioned how the planets passed at close range, but they are far away today. Indeed, the optical parallax to the Sun has continued to decrease, even into the 21st century. The ancients described, as the Biblical Job did, how the earliest people lived for geological ages in few days. Indeed, we find the skull of our ancestors with enormous brows. The face is the only part of our skeleton that keeps growing as we age. If we lived for geological ages, our faces would grow Neanderthal but our grandchildren would have faces more like ours. This is what we find in the fossil record.

      How great will be the triumph of the Word of God over science. Why would God want to make foolish the wise of this age? Man cannot come to know Him personally by means of philosophical wisdom (science); only by the faith of a sinner who trusts in His promises. He is taking the wise of this age. How? They have a first law, that all things remain the same and they obfuscate cosmic history with their notion that atoms are perpetual motion engines.
    • Laurie Appleton
      ... From: VictorM To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 6:45 AM Subject: [OriginsTalk] How spiral galaxies formed How great will be
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 24, 2012
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: VictorM
        To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 6:45 AM
        Subject: [OriginsTalk] How spiral galaxies formed




        How great will be the triumph of the Word of God over science. Why would God want to make foolish the wise of this age?

        LA> Hmmmm... pardon the question, but are you claiming to be foolish yourself? Are you aware that a noted evolutionist has written the following;
        -----------------------------

        "Although we may recognize the frailties of
        Christian dogma and deplore the unconscionable
        persecution of thought which is one of the less
        appetizing aspects of medieval history, we must also
        observe that in one of those strange permutations of
        which history yields occasional rare examples, it is
        the Christian world which finally gave birth in a clear
        articulate fashion to the experimental method of
        science itself."

        "Many things undoubtedly went into the amalgam:
        Greek logic and philosophy, the experimental methods of
        craftsmen in the arts as opposed to the aristocratic
        thinker - all these things have been debated. But
        perhaps the most curious element of them all is the
        factor dwelt upon by Whitehead - THE SHEER ACT OF FAITH
        THAT THE UNIVERSE POSSESSED ORDER AND COULD BE
        INTERPRETED BY RATIONAL MINDS."

        "For Whitehead rightly observes, the philosophy of
        experimental science was not impressive. It began its
        discoveries and made use of its method in the faith,
        not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational
        universe controlled by a Creator who did not act upon
        whim nor interfere with the forces He has set in
        operation."

        "The experimental method succeeded beyond men's
        wildest dreams but the faith that brought it into being
        owes something to the Christian concept of the nature
        of God. It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of
        history that science, which professionally has little
        to do with faith, owes its origin to an act of faith
        that the Universe can be rationally interpreted, and
        that science today is sustained by that assumption."

        (Darwin's Century, Dr. Loren Eiseley, 1959, p.62) (A.N.
        Whitehead, "Science and the Modern World, Mentor Book., 1948, pp 4-17)
        ===================


        Laurie.

        "We used to have an open mind, now we realise that the only logical answer to life is creation -- not accidental random shuffling." (Chandra Wickramasinghe, ex-atheist Buddhist, 1981)

        ..



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      • VictorM
        ... Then the philosopher / theologian Aquinas and his disciple Dons Scotus came up with new ideas to fit their concept of a God who ABSOLUTELY could not CHANGE
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 25, 2012
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          --- In OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Appleton" <lappleto@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: VictorM
          > To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 6:45 AM
          > Subject: [OriginsTalk] How spiral galaxies formed
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > How great will be the triumph of the Word of God over science. Why would God want to make foolish the wise of this age?
          >
          > LA> Hmmmm... pardon the question, but are you claiming to be foolish yourself? Are you aware that a noted evolutionist has written the following;
          > -----------------------------
          >
          > "Although we may recognize the frailties of
          > Christian dogma and deplore the unconscionable
          > persecution of thought which is one of the less
          > appetizing aspects of medieval history, we must also
          > observe that in one of those strange permutations of
          > which history yields occasional rare examples, it is
          > the Christian world which finally gave birth in a clear
          > articulate fashion to the experimental method of
          > science itself."
          >
          > "Many things undoubtedly went into the amalgam:
          > Greek logic and philosophy, the experimental methods of
          > craftsmen in the arts as opposed to the aristocratic
          > thinker - all these things have been debated. But
          > perhaps the most curious element of them all is the
          > factor dwelt upon by Whitehead - THE SHEER ACT OF FAITH
          > THAT THE UNIVERSE POSSESSED ORDER AND COULD BE
          > INTERPRETED BY RATIONAL MINDS."
          >
          > "For Whitehead rightly observes, the philosophy of
          > experimental science was not impressive. It began its
          > discoveries and made use of its method in the faith,
          > not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational
          > universe controlled by a Creator who did not act upon
          > whim nor interfere with the forces He has set in
          > operation."
          >
          > "The experimental method succeeded beyond men's
          > wildest dreams but the faith that brought it into being
          > owes something to the Christian concept of the nature
          > of God. It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of
          > history that science, which professionally has little
          > to do with faith, owes its origin to an act of faith
          > that the Universe can be rationally interpreted, and
          > that science today is sustained by that assumption."
          >
          > (Darwin's Century, Dr. Loren Eiseley, 1959, p.62) (A.N.
          > Whitehead, "Science and the Modern World, Mentor Book., 1948, pp 4-17)
          > ===================
          >
          >
          > Laurie.
          >

          Then the philosopher / theologian Aquinas and his disciple Dons Scotus came up with new ideas to fit their concept of a God who ABSOLUTELY could not CHANGE since He was not in time. Since God had a changeless BEING (based on Latin verbs turned into nouns), created things must also have a being (again a noun) that is changeless. It was upon the metaphysical notion that the essence (the noun being) of substance is changeless, that western science was founded. The Bible predicted science, that in the last days mockers will come obfuscating the age of the plural heavens and the twice inundated geology of our planet because they believe that all things remain the same. Scientists daily fulfill Peter's predictions because they have a first law, that all things remain the same.

          Changing earth creationist promote accepting the WORDS of the Bible as they meant before the traditions of men distorted their meaning. When the creation account says He continues to speak to the land for it to continue to sprout vegetation, then we should not distort the Bible to make it fit the tradition of men that He spoke only once and instantly created things. When it says that the finishing of the plural heavens and earth are incomplete and that He continues to call the stars to come out and spread out, then we must not distort the text to fit the traditions of men, even though they were learned translators. This is especially true with regard to time, a tradition of the western system that is so powerful that it grips the minds of westerners like a vise. Some young earthers are prepared to say God lies, in order to protect their concept of time with which they think and measure. According to these, God created light already in place with images of exploding stars that did not happen to deceive people to thinking the universe is ancient when it is actually young, something the Bible never states, only the traditions of men state. The Bible says God cannot lie. He never deceives in word or action. Yet He has made a universe in which all who refuse to honor Him as Creator are deceived and will be proved to be fools.

          Perhaps that is why He commands us to rather be fools than wise in this age. I am foolish enough to believe the Bible rather than to accept the blind faith of the scientists, that the properties of matter are fixed, not emerging continually.

          Victor
        • Laurie Appleton
          ... From: VictorM To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 6:33 AM Subject: [OriginsTalk] Re: How spiral galaxies formed ... Then the
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 25, 2012
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: VictorM
            To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, October 26, 2012 6:33 AM
            Subject: [OriginsTalk] Re: How spiral galaxies formed



            --- In OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com, "Laurie Appleton" <lappleto@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: VictorM
            > To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2012 6:45 AM
            > Subject: [OriginsTalk] How spiral galaxies formed
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > How great will be the triumph of the Word of God over science. Why would God want to make foolish the wise of this age?
            >
            > LA> Hmmmm... pardon the question, but are you claiming to be foolish yourself? Are you aware that a noted evolutionist has written the following;
            > -----------------------------
            >
            > "Although we may recognize the frailties of
            > Christian dogma and deplore the unconscionable
            > persecution of thought which is one of the less
            > appetizing aspects of medieval history, we must also
            > observe that in one of those strange permutations of
            > which history yields occasional rare examples, it is
            > the Christian world which finally gave birth in a clear
            > articulate fashion to the experimental method of
            > science itself."
            >
            > "Many things undoubtedly went into the amalgam:
            > Greek logic and philosophy, the experimental methods of
            > craftsmen in the arts as opposed to the aristocratic
            > thinker - all these things have been debated. But
            > perhaps the most curious element of them all is the
            > factor dwelt upon by Whitehead - THE SHEER ACT OF FAITH
            > THAT THE UNIVERSE POSSESSED ORDER AND COULD BE
            > INTERPRETED BY RATIONAL MINDS."
            >
            > "For Whitehead rightly observes, the philosophy of
            > experimental science was not impressive. It began its
            > discoveries and made use of its method in the faith,
            > not the knowledge, that it was dealing with a rational
            > universe controlled by a Creator who did not act upon
            > whim nor interfere with the forces He has set in
            > operation."
            >
            > "The experimental method succeeded beyond men's
            > wildest dreams but the faith that brought it into being
            > owes something to the Christian concept of the nature
            > of God. It is surely one of the curious paradoxes of
            > history that science, which professionally has little
            > to do with faith, owes its origin to an act of faith
            > that the Universe can be rationally interpreted, and
            > that science today is sustained by that assumption."
            >
            > (Darwin's Century, Dr. Loren Eiseley, 1959, p.62) (A.N.
            > Whitehead, "Science and the Modern World, Mentor Book., 1948, pp 4-17)
            > ===================
            >
            >
            > Laurie.
            >

            Then the philosopher / theologian Aquinas and his disciple Dons Scotus came up with new ideas to fit their concept of a God who ABSOLUTELY could not CHANGE since He was not in time. Since God had a changeless BEING (based on Latin verbs turned into nouns), created things must also have a being (again a noun) that is changeless. It was upon the metaphysical notion that the essence (the noun being) of substance is changeless, that western science was founded. The Bible predicted science, that in the last days mockers will come obfuscating the age of the plural heavens and the twice inundated geology of our planet because they believe that all things remain the same. Scientists daily fulfill Peter's predictions because they have a first law, that all things remain the same.

            Changing earth creationist promote accepting the WORDS of the Bible as they meant before the traditions of men distorted their meaning. When the creation account says He continues to speak to the land for it to continue to sprout vegetation, then we should not distort the Bible to make it fit the tradition of men that He spoke only once and instantly created things. When it says that the finishing of the plural heavens and earth are incomplete and that He continues to call the stars to come out and spread out, then we must not distort the text to fit the traditions of men, even though they were learned translators. This is especially true with regard to time, a tradition of the western system that is so powerful that it grips the minds of westerners like a vise. Some young earthers are prepared to say God lies, in order to protect their concept of time with which they think and measure. According to these, God created light already in place with images of exploding stars that did not happen to deceive people to thinking the universe is ancient when it is actually young, something the Bible never states, only the traditions of men state. The Bible says God cannot lie. He never deceives in word or action. Yet He has made a universe in which all who refuse to honor Him as Creator are deceived and will be proved to be fools.

            Perhaps that is why He commands us to rather be fools than wise in this age. I am foolish enough to believe the Bible rather than to accept the blind faith of the scientists, that the properties of matter are fixed, not emerging continually.

            Victor


            LA> It also seems quite possible that in your own concept of "wisdom" you might have become as foolish as evolutionists and may be accepting the statements of atheists about time.


            Laurie.

            "Gradualism, the idea that all changes must be smooth, slow, and steady, was never read from th rrocks."
            (S.J. Gould, atheist, evolutionist, 1978)

            ..
            .




            No virus found in this message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 2013.0.2742 / Virus Database: 2617/5853 - Release Date: 10/25/12


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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