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Re: "The Language of Science and Faith"

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  • D R Lindberg
    ... published The Language of Science and Faith: Straight Answers to Genuine Questions. A review of the book by ID theorist William Dembski ...
    Message 1 of 2 , May 5, 2011
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      --- In OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com, Jim Goff <JamesGoff_960@...> wrote:
      > Theistic evolutionists Karl Giberson and Francis Collins recently
      published "The Language of Science and Faith: Straight Answers to
      Genuine Questions." A review of the book by ID theorist William Dembski
      can be found at:

      As usual. Dembski is misleading, and it is difficult to see how this
      could not be intentional.

      In your article, he says, for example:
      "This [GILO] gene, when intact, allows for the synthesis of vitamin C.
      Its common defectiveness in humans and other primates, according to
      them [= "evolutionists"], argues for its common ancestry apart from
      design (common defectiveness not being something readily explained by
      common design). But this same defect is also found in guinea pigs,
      which, on evolutionary grounds, are so far removed from humans that
      this common defect could not be attributed to a common ancestor but
      rather must be explained as some sort of evolutionary convergence. But
      in that case, the defective GULO gene hardly becomes compelling
      evidence for our common ancestry with primates—humans might have
      started off with a functional GULO gene, which then subsequently became
      defective. "

      In fact, a university science site states this:
      "An example of a pseudogene showing shared inheritance is GULO. GULO is
      one of the genes responsible for making Vitamin C. Most mammals can
      make their own Vitamin C but primates such as humans and chimps cannot.

      It turns out that there is a single DNA change (or mutation) that is
      shared by all primates in their GULO gene. This causes GULO to be
      inactive for all primates.

      Again the odds of the same change happening in these different species
      at different times are pretty close to zero. Especially since there are
      many ways to kill a gene. In fact, there is more than one way to kill a

      Guinea pigs can't make Vitamin C because they have a broken GULO gene
      too. But theirs is broken in a different spot. "
      Emphasis on those last five words: BROKEN IN A DIFFERENT SPOT. Whereas
      those of humans and other primates are broken in the same spot. This is
      what shows common ancestry, not just the mere fact of being broken. As
      the site says, genes can break in many ways.

      Someone might tell you that John has his mother's eyes, or his father's
      nose. This is what indicates close kinship, not the mere fact that he
      has eyes, or a nose, not is it contraindicated by the fact that guinea
      pigs also have eyes and noses.

      So what evidence do we have that Dembski (a non-biologist, who
      criticizes one of the authors for not being a biologist) is not
      deliberately missing the point in order to mislead his readers?


      I'm an atheist, but you know what? Evolution is the one thing. The
      ONE, single thing that makes me say…. "you know… just
      maybe…just MAYBE, there may be something to this God business after

      There's a larger world out there for you Tim. And a great wonder of God
      is staring you in the face. It's called Science. Learn the real stuff,
      not just the made up stuff that's poorly sourced and quote-mined and
      only sold at the Christian bookshops.

      The real God, if He's really out there, wrote the whole universe. Don't
      fear it. Don't hide in a bubble of self-confirmation and
      christian-approved authors. Your faith is strong. God will still be
      there after you really learn about the real theory of evolution (and not
      the fake cartoon version that creationists teach each other just to
      knock it down easily.)

      - "Siamang"


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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