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Re: Flood Stories -- last one (philosoph ical probl ems)‏

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  • Jim Goff
    FLOOD STORIES -- LAST ONE (PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEMS) Randy: But, according to YOUR (Kelton s) argument Newtonism - Sir Isaac Newton s descriptions of gravity
    Message 1 of 2 , Aug 31, 2010
      FLOOD STORIES -- LAST ONE (PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEMS)

      Randy: "But, according to YOUR (Kelton's) argument 'Newtonism' - Sir Isaac Newton's descriptions of gravity and motion - are also atheistic since they do not require a God as creator or designer."

      Newton himself would have disagreed with you. In his own words (taken from his masterpiece "Principia Mathematica"):

      "This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

      Newton thought the cosmos declared design and proclaimed the glory of God. As he put it (in a letter to Richard Bentley):

      "When I wrote my treatise about our System I had an eye upon such Principles as might work with considering men for the belief of a Deity, and nothing can rejoice me more than to find it useful for that purpose."

      In short, Newton thought his system of physics was ripe with theistic, not atheistic, implications. I doubt that anyone has ever said: "Newton's theory of gravity made an atheist out of me." But quite a few people (including Richard Dawkins and William Provine) have said: "Darwin's theory of evolution made an atheist out of me."

      Jim in Vermont






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    • Randy C
      ... Randy C: Actually Newton isn t disagreeing with ME! He s disagreeing with KGRAHAM when KGRAHAM claims that Darwinian evolution is necessarily atheistic
      Message 2 of 2 , Sep 4, 2010
        >> Randy C:
        >> "But, according to YOUR (Kelton's) argument 'Newtonism' -
        >> Sir Isaac Newton's descriptions of gravity and motion -
        >> are also atheistic since they do not require a God as
        >> creator or designer."

        > Jim Goff:
        > Newton himself would have disagreed with you.
        > In his own words (taken from his masterpiece
        > "Principia Mathematica"):
        > "This most beautiful system of the sun, planets and
        > comets, could only proceed from the counsel and
        > dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

        Randy C:
        Actually Newton isn't disagreeing with ME!

        He's disagreeing with KGRAHAM when KGRAHAM claims
        that Darwinian evolution is necessarily atheistic
        because it provides a naturalistic explanation for
        the diversity of life on Earth.

        That is NOT the case any more than Newtonian gravity
        is necessarily atheistic because it provides a
        naturalistic explanation for things like planetary
        motion.

        Because someone (such as a God) is not REQUIRED for
        a particular event or situation does not, in any
        rational way, deny the EXISTENCE of that person or
        God.

        If I cook dinner without REQUIRING that my wife help
        me, am I denying that she even EXISTS?

        It is clearly a completely illogical argument.

        But wait!! You also make KGRAHAM's argument.

        So you just provided a quote that disagrees with
        your own beliefs!

        Moreover, while Newton's views on science should be
        surely respected because he was arguably the
        greatest scientist of all time, I don't know that
        anyone should get all hot and bothered when he
        describes his theological views.

        Newton was something called a "Socinian". They believed
        in these things (see
        http://www.sullivan-county.com/identity/coal_woes.htm:)

        1) All religious authority depends on applying reason
        to Scripture

        2) The doctrine of the Trinity is false because there
        is no Scriptural evidence for it

        3) The ethical teachings of Jesus, particularly the
        Sermon on the Mount, are the main guide, not the words
        of Paul.

        4) Jesus was human, though an exceptional human; though
        not God, he was endowed with divine attributes of
        wisdom and virtue. See Acts 2:22

        5) The resurrection was significant because it
        demonstrated the possibility of immortality

        6) Jesus' death was not an atonement for our sins nor
        did God demand that someone suffer for our sins.

        7) The following doctrines are false: original sin,
        predestination of the elect, the inherent depravity
        of human beings, and eternal damnation. See Calvinism

        8) We can have faith in the good and loving nature of
        God

        9) Though well aware of how sinful human beings can
        be and often are, we can have faith in the human
        capacity for reason and goodness.

        10) Religious thought should be free, and all creeds
        should be tolerated.

        I doubt very much that you agree with all of those -
        or even possibly a majority of them.

        Pay particular attention to the first tenet - apply
        REASON to Scripture. Clearly that is something that
        creationists do NOT do.
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