## Re: Young earth creationism, the Moon, arithmetic, and spaghetti

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• Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the subject as a
Message 1 of 7 , Sep 1, 2006
Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the
error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY
IRRELEVANT to the subject as a RED HERRING for the PURPOSE of
INTENTIONALLY DISTRACTING from the error. Standard operating
procedure for young earth creationists. And they wonder why they have
such a reputation for deceit.

I thank Laurie for demonstrating it for us.

- Todd Greene

Greene's Creationism Truth Filter
http://creationism.outersystem.us/

--- In OriginsTalk, Laurie Appleton wrote (post #12749):
> --- Todd Greene wrote:
>> Okay, Dr. Jason, let's do some simple third grade arithmetic:
>>
>> Feet in a mile: 5,280
>> Inches in a foot: 12
>> Inches in a mile = 5,280 x 12 = 63,360
>>
>> Moon recession rate (using Dr. Jason's own figure):
>> 1.5 inches per year
>>
>> Distance in 1.5 billion years:
>>
>> 1.5 billion = 1,500,000,000
>>
>> 1.5 inches (per year) x 1,500,000,000 (years) =
>> 2,250,000,000 inches
>>
>> How many miles is that?
>>
>> 2,250,000,000 (inches) / 63,360 (inches per mile) = 35,500 miles
>>
>> Current distance of Moon from Earth: About 240,000 miles.
>>
>> 240,000 miles - 35,500 miles = 204,500 miles
>>
>> Claim by Dr. Jason: "...the moon would have been so close,
>> that it would actually have been touching the earth less than
>> 1.5 billion years ago."
>>
>> In other words, Jason is telling people that 204,500 miles is
>> the same thing as 0 (zero) miles.
>>
>> Final Equation:
>> Claim by Dr. Jason = Young earth creationism has turned Dr.
>> Jason's brain into spaghetti.

> Hi Todd,
>
> Correction: The final equation is that Todd Greene has
> concluded that an error in a mathematic calculation is proof
> that "people came from monkeys"! "Spragetti brains beats
> "monkey brains" every time!
• Hi Todd, ... From: Todd S. Greene To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:18 PM Subject: [OriginsTalk] Re: Young earth creationism,
Message 2 of 7 , Sep 1, 2006
Hi Todd,

----- Original Message -----
From: Todd S. Greene
To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:18 PM
Subject: [OriginsTalk] Re: Young earth creationism, the Moon, arithmetic, and spaghetti

Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the
error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY
IRRELEVANT to the subject as a RED HERRING for the PURPOSE of
INTENTIONALLY DISTRACTING from the error. Standard operating
procedure for young earth creationists. And they wonder why they have
such a reputation for deceit.

I thank Laurie for demonstrating it for us.

LA> What has been demonstrated is that TODD has been caught out, in trying to prove that "people came from monkeys" by finding a mistake in someone's calculations that have nothing to do with supporting such a claim. The simple facts are that whether the age of the earth is 6,000 years of 6 trillion years, all the scientific evidence best supports Intelligent Design, purpose and thus a Designer and Creator.

Laurie.

"No wonder paleontologists shied away from evolution for so long. It never seems to happen." (Niles Eldredge, famous evolutionist, 1995)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Todd,
>
> Correction: The final equation is that Todd Greene has
> concluded that an error in a mathematic calculation is proof
> that "people came from monkeys"! "Spragetti brains beats
> "monkey brains" every time!

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• Todd s post shows how only limited, fried-brain thinking in the areas of Origins can enable the human to believe in spontaneous monsters-from-mud theories.
Message 3 of 7 , Sep 2, 2006
Todd's post shows how only limited, fried-brain thinking in the areas of
Origins can enable the human to believe in spontaneous monsters-from-mud
theories.

Thank God it was a creationist who put his God-given brains to good use
when he was thinking about apples falling to the ground.

Anybody who knows the first thing about gravity, and the velocity
necessary to sustain orbits, will remember that the calculations are
much more than simple direct arithmetical proportions. For some
anti-creationists, they think they make a sly clever bunch of punches to
the calculator and they prove creationists dumb! But they only prove
that Baalim's ass is smarter than they are! If anything! The ass knew
when to stop!! :-) :-) :)

The formula for the force between 2 physical bodies is F = lambda times
(the multiple of the mass of each of the two bodies divided by the
square of the distance between the two bodies).

With the given of the mass of the Earth and the moon being constant over
the time in question, then, with each step "inward" of the orbit of the
moon around the Earth, we would have the difference in the gravitational
force going up by the SQUARE of that difference, not in direct
proportion to it. That means the moon has to move FASTER in direct
proportion to the extra force exerted on it by gravity. So it completes
the orbit around the Earth that much faster, and what's more, the
DISTANCE traversed in one complete circle by the moon in its path around
its orbit, would be reduced in proportion to the reduction in the
circumference at said distance.

The bottom line is, as the orbit of the moon approaches the Earth, its
velocity must be accelerated in direct proportion to the _square of the
difference_ in the distance from the Earth, and the circumference is
reduced by a factor of 2 _times pi times the difference_. And, the moon
traverses said distance at a velocity that is faster by the difference
in the _orbital escape velocity_ which depends on not only the action of
the force of gravity at that height from Earth, but also on the angle of
the orbit with respect to the vertical line from Earth's gravitational
center. But at any point /below/ the reference orbit, the current one,
that orbital escape velocity will be faster of course, and thereby
reducing the time necessary to traverse said circumference. If you
wanted to get really precise, of course, you would have to use calculus
to get the right numbers for all that calculating.

No wonder Newton had to invent calculus too.

Methinks the Earth's average IQ must have taken a tumble in inverse
proportion to the strength of the belief in the spontaneous eternal
self-existing universe.

--Alan
• And now.... Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT to the
Message 4 of 7 , Sep 2, 2006
And now....

Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the
error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY
IRRELEVANT to the subject as a RED HERRING for the PURPOSE of
INTENTIONALLY DISTRACTING from the error. Standard operating
procedure for young earth creationists. And they wonder why they have
such a reputation for deceit. I thank Laurie for demonstrating it for
us. - Todd Greene

...> Speaking of deceit, let us see how Todd handles his gross
negligence in applying a simple multiplication problem to a problem that
requires (1) at the least one universal constant (lambda, or the
universal gravitational constant), two local constants and givens for
the computation at hand ( (2)the mass of the Earth, and (3) the mass of
the moon), (4) the "starting point" velocity with respect to the
distance between the center of gravity of the two masses expressed in
terms of equivalent linear velocity, but also (5) the angle of momentum
with respect to the straight line between the two centers of gravity
(never perpendicular for an elliptical orbit except at two points in the
orbit at an arbitrarily infinitesimally small point).

Of course calculus is also required for exactness here, but we already
have the inverse square throwing a monkey-wrench (pun intended) into the
simple simian arithmetic objections. (Maybe darwinians have their own
secret recorded genealogy somewhere? Maybe one of them coined the term,
"I'll be a monkey's uncle!")?

--Alan
• ... Notice how Alan IGNORES the fact that I QUOTED from the AiG article and then used what THEY said! ;-) ... Notice how Alan IGNORES the fact that Newton
Message 5 of 7 , Sep 2, 2006
--- In OriginsTalk, Alan- <steelville@...> wrote (post #12764):
> Todd's post shows how only limited, fried-brain thinking in the
> areas of Origins can enable the human to believe in spontaneous
> monsters-from-mud theories.

Notice how Alan IGNORES the fact that I QUOTED from the AiG article
and then used what THEY said! ;-)

> Thank God it was a creationist who put his God-given brains to
> good use when he was thinking about apples falling to the
> ground.

Notice how Alan IGNORES the fact that Newton lived hundreds of years
ago - in other words, before biological science even existed.

I guess modern creationist brains can't seem to comprehend things
being out of context! ;-)

Oh, right, we already knew this.

> Anybody who knows the first thing about gravity, and the
> velocity necessary to sustain orbits, will remember that the
> calculations are much more than simple direct arithmetical
> proportions.

Which AiG FAILED to point out in their article (among other things
they FAILED to point out).

> For some anti-creationists,
> they think they make a sly clever bunch of punches to the
> calculator and they prove creationists dumb! But they only
> prove that Baalim's ass is smarter than they are! If anything!
> The ass knew when to stop!! :-) :-) :)

Which is why Alan is throwing all kinds of insults at me because of
what *AiG* stated in THEIR ARTICLE. Even I would not stooped so low
as Alan as to have remarked that they were more stupid than an ass.

> The formula for
> the force between 2 physical bodies is F = lambda times
> (the multiple of the mass of each of the two bodies divided by
> the square of the distance between the two bodies).
>
> With the given of the mass of the Earth and the moon being
> constant over the time in question, then, with each step
> "inward" of the orbit of the moon around the Earth, we would
> have the difference in the gravitational force going up by the
> SQUARE of that difference, not in direct proportion to it. That
> means the moon has to move FASTER in direct proportion to the
> extra force exerted on it by gravity. So it completes the
> the orbit around the Earth that much faster, and what's more,
> the DISTANCE traversed in one complete circle by the moon in
> its path around its orbit, would be reduced in proportion to
> the reduction in the circumference at said distance.
>
> The bottom line is, as the orbit of the moon approaches the
> Earth, its velocity must be accelerated in direct proportion
> to the _square of the difference_ in the distance from the
> Earth, and the circumference is reduced by a factor of 2 _times
> pi times the difference_. And, the moon traverses said distance
> at a velocity that is faster by the difference in the _orbital
> escape velocity_ which depends on not only the action of the
> force of gravity at that height from Earth, but also on the
> angle of the orbit with respect to the vertical line from
> Earth's gravitational center. But at any point /below/ the
> reference orbit, the current one, that orbital escape velocity
> will be faster of course, and thereby reducing the time
> necessary to traverse said circumference. If you wanted to get
> really precise, of course, you would have to use calculus
> to get the right numbers for all that calculating.
>
> No wonder Newton had to invent calculus too.

Notice how Alan spins many words but does not address the *recession
rate* of the moon, or the factors of the *recession rate*, which is,
after all, the topic.

Notice how Alan touts Newton, and Newton's calculus, but he, like the
other young earth creationists such as Jason Lisle have IGNORED the
mathematical models developed by geophysicists over the last 40 years
in coming to grips with all of the factors involved in the recession
rate.

> Methinks the Earth's average IQ must have taken a tumble in
> inverse proportion to the strength of the belief in the
> spontaneous eternal self-existing universe.

Methinks, uh..., no, I KNOW that adherence to the religious dogma of
young earth creationism has seriously damaged the IQ of those people
so afflicted when it comes to dealing with science and math in those
areas of science and math that contradict their religious dogma. We
know this by example.

Such as this one.

The Recession of the Moon
by Tim Thompson
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html

- Todd Greene

Greene's Creationism Truth Filter
http://creationism.outersystem.us/
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