- Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the

error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY

IRRELEVANT to the subject as a RED HERRING for the PURPOSE of

INTENTIONALLY DISTRACTING from the error. Standard operating

procedure for young earth creationists. And they wonder why they have

such a reputation for deceit.

I thank Laurie for demonstrating it for us.

- Todd Greene

Greene's Creationism Truth Filter

http://creationism.outersystem.us/

--- In OriginsTalk, Laurie Appleton wrote (post #12749):> --- Todd Greene wrote:

>> Okay, Dr. Jason, let's do some simple third grade arithmetic:

>>

>> Feet in a mile: 5,280

>> Inches in a foot: 12

>> Inches in a mile = 5,280 x 12 = 63,360

>>

>> Moon recession rate (using Dr. Jason's own figure):

>> 1.5 inches per year

>>

>> Distance in 1.5 billion years:

>>

>> 1.5 billion = 1,500,000,000

>>

>> 1.5 inches (per year) x 1,500,000,000 (years) =

>> 2,250,000,000 inches

>>

>> How many miles is that?

>>

>> 2,250,000,000 (inches) / 63,360 (inches per mile) = 35,500 miles

>>

>> Current distance of Moon from Earth: About 240,000 miles.

>>

>> 240,000 miles - 35,500 miles = 204,500 miles

>>

>> Claim by Dr. Jason: "...the moon would have been so close,

>> that it would actually have been touching the earth less than

>> 1.5 billion years ago."

>>

>> In other words, Jason is telling people that 204,500 miles is

>> the same thing as 0 (zero) miles.

>>

>> Final Equation:

>> Claim by Dr. Jason = Young earth creationism has turned Dr.

>> Jason's brain into spaghetti.

> Hi Todd,

>

> Correction: The final equation is that Todd Greene has

> concluded that an error in a mathematic calculation is proof

> that "people came from monkeys"! "Spragetti brains beats

> "monkey brains" every time! - Hi Todd,

----- Original Message -----

From: Todd S. Greene

To: OriginsTalk@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 11:18 PM

Subject: [OriginsTalk] Re: Young earth creationism, the Moon, arithmetic, and spaghetti

Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the

error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY

IRRELEVANT to the subject as a RED HERRING for the PURPOSE of

INTENTIONALLY DISTRACTING from the error. Standard operating

procedure for young earth creationists. And they wonder why they have

such a reputation for deceit.

I thank Laurie for demonstrating it for us.

LA> What has been demonstrated is that TODD has been caught out, in trying to prove that "people came from monkeys" by finding a mistake in someone's calculations that have nothing to do with supporting such a claim. The simple facts are that whether the age of the earth is 6,000 years of 6 trillion years, all the scientific evidence best supports Intelligent Design, purpose and thus a Designer and Creator.

Laurie.

"No wonder paleontologists shied away from evolution for so long. It never seems to happen." (Niles Eldredge, famous evolutionist, 1995)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Hi Todd,

>

> Correction: The final equation is that Todd Greene has

> concluded that an error in a mathematic calculation is proof

> that "people came from monkeys"! "Spragetti brains beats

> "monkey brains" every time!

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] - Todd's post shows how only limited, fried-brain thinking in the areas of

Origins can enable the human to believe in spontaneous monsters-from-mud

theories.

Thank God it was a creationist who put his God-given brains to good use

when he was thinking about apples falling to the ground.

Anybody who knows the first thing about gravity, and the velocity

necessary to sustain orbits, will remember that the calculations are

much more than simple direct arithmetical proportions. For some

anti-creationists, they think they make a sly clever bunch of punches to

the calculator and they prove creationists dumb! But they only prove

that Baalim's ass is smarter than they are! If anything! The ass knew

when to stop!! :-) :-) :)

The formula for the force between 2 physical bodies is F = lambda times

(the multiple of the mass of each of the two bodies divided by the

square of the distance between the two bodies).

With the given of the mass of the Earth and the moon being constant over

the time in question, then, with each step "inward" of the orbit of the

moon around the Earth, we would have the difference in the gravitational

force going up by the SQUARE of that difference, not in direct

proportion to it. That means the moon has to move FASTER in direct

proportion to the extra force exerted on it by gravity. So it completes

the orbit around the Earth that much faster, and what's more, the

DISTANCE traversed in one complete circle by the moon in its path around

its orbit, would be reduced in proportion to the reduction in the

circumference at said distance.

The bottom line is, as the orbit of the moon approaches the Earth, its

velocity must be accelerated in direct proportion to the _square of the

difference_ in the distance from the Earth, and the circumference is

reduced by a factor of 2 _times pi times the difference_. And, the moon

traverses said distance at a velocity that is faster by the difference

in the _orbital escape velocity_ which depends on not only the action of

the force of gravity at that height from Earth, but also on the angle of

the orbit with respect to the vertical line from Earth's gravitational

center. But at any point /below/ the reference orbit, the current one,

that orbital escape velocity will be faster of course, and thereby

reducing the time necessary to traverse said circumference. If you

wanted to get really precise, of course, you would have to use calculus

to get the right numbers for all that calculating.

No wonder Newton had to invent calculus too.

Methinks the Earth's average IQ must have taken a tumble in inverse

proportion to the strength of the belief in the spontaneous eternal

self-existing universe.

--Alan - And now....

Notice how the young earth creationist Lauri PURPOSELY IGNORES the

error, and then spouts a little rhetoric that is COMPLETELY

IRRELEVANT to the subject as a RED HERRING for the PURPOSE of

INTENTIONALLY DISTRACTING from the error. Standard operating

procedure for young earth creationists. And they wonder why they have

such a reputation for deceit. I thank Laurie for demonstrating it for

us. - Todd Greene

...> Speaking of deceit, let us see how Todd handles his gross

negligence in applying a simple multiplication problem to a problem that

requires (1) at the least one universal constant (lambda, or the

universal gravitational constant), two local constants and givens for

the computation at hand ( (2)the mass of the Earth, and (3) the mass of

the moon), (4) the "starting point" velocity with respect to the

distance between the center of gravity of the two masses expressed in

terms of equivalent linear velocity, but also (5) the angle of momentum

with respect to the straight line between the two centers of gravity

(never perpendicular for an elliptical orbit except at two points in the

orbit at an arbitrarily infinitesimally small point).

Of course calculus is also required for exactness here, but we already

have the inverse square throwing a monkey-wrench (pun intended) into the

simple simian arithmetic objections. (Maybe darwinians have their own

secret recorded genealogy somewhere? Maybe one of them coined the term,

"I'll be a monkey's uncle!")?

--Alan - --- In OriginsTalk, Alan- <steelville@...> wrote (post #12764):
> Todd's post shows how only limited, fried-brain thinking in the

Notice how Alan IGNORES the fact that I QUOTED from the AiG article

> areas of Origins can enable the human to believe in spontaneous

> monsters-from-mud theories.

and then used what THEY said! ;-)

> Thank God it was a creationist who put his God-given brains to

Notice how Alan IGNORES the fact that Newton lived hundreds of years

> good use when he was thinking about apples falling to the

> ground.

ago - in other words, before biological science even existed.

I guess modern creationist brains can't seem to comprehend things

being out of context! ;-)

Oh, right, we already knew this.

> Anybody who knows the first thing about gravity, and the

Which AiG FAILED to point out in their article (among other things

> velocity necessary to sustain orbits, will remember that the

> calculations are much more than simple direct arithmetical

> proportions.

they FAILED to point out).

> For some anti-creationists,

Which is why Alan is throwing all kinds of insults at me because of

> they think they make a sly clever bunch of punches to the

> calculator and they prove creationists dumb! But they only

> prove that Baalim's ass is smarter than they are! If anything!

> The ass knew when to stop!! :-) :-) :)

what *AiG* stated in THEIR ARTICLE. Even I would not stooped so low

as Alan as to have remarked that they were more stupid than an ass.

> The formula for

Notice how Alan spins many words but does not address the *recession

> the force between 2 physical bodies is F = lambda times

> (the multiple of the mass of each of the two bodies divided by

> the square of the distance between the two bodies).

>

> With the given of the mass of the Earth and the moon being

> constant over the time in question, then, with each step

> "inward" of the orbit of the moon around the Earth, we would

> have the difference in the gravitational force going up by the

> SQUARE of that difference, not in direct proportion to it. That

> means the moon has to move FASTER in direct proportion to the

> extra force exerted on it by gravity. So it completes the

> the orbit around the Earth that much faster, and what's more,

> the DISTANCE traversed in one complete circle by the moon in

> its path around its orbit, would be reduced in proportion to

> the reduction in the circumference at said distance.

>

> The bottom line is, as the orbit of the moon approaches the

> Earth, its velocity must be accelerated in direct proportion

> to the _square of the difference_ in the distance from the

> Earth, and the circumference is reduced by a factor of 2 _times

> pi times the difference_. And, the moon traverses said distance

> at a velocity that is faster by the difference in the _orbital

> escape velocity_ which depends on not only the action of the

> force of gravity at that height from Earth, but also on the

> angle of the orbit with respect to the vertical line from

> Earth's gravitational center. But at any point /below/ the

> reference orbit, the current one, that orbital escape velocity

> will be faster of course, and thereby reducing the time

> necessary to traverse said circumference. If you wanted to get

> really precise, of course, you would have to use calculus

> to get the right numbers for all that calculating.

>

> No wonder Newton had to invent calculus too.

rate* of the moon, or the factors of the *recession rate*, which is,

after all, the topic.

Notice how Alan touts Newton, and Newton's calculus, but he, like the

other young earth creationists such as Jason Lisle have IGNORED the

mathematical models developed by geophysicists over the last 40 years

in coming to grips with all of the factors involved in the recession

rate.

> Methinks the Earth's average IQ must have taken a tumble in

Methinks, uh..., no, I KNOW that adherence to the religious dogma of

> inverse proportion to the strength of the belief in the

> spontaneous eternal self-existing universe.

young earth creationism has seriously damaged the IQ of those people

so afflicted when it comes to dealing with science and math in those

areas of science and math that contradict their religious dogma. We

know this by example.

Such as this one.

The Recession of the Moon

by Tim Thompson

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/moonrec.html

- Todd Greene

Greene's Creationism Truth Filter

http://creationism.outersystem.us/