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Short conference report

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  • Martin Wunderlich
    Hi all, I have just survived three days of Localisation World conference here in Barcelona. There was one session on the open-source model and how it is used
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 2, 2006
      Hi all,

      I have just survived three days of Localisation World conference here
      in Barcelona. There was one session on the open-source model and how
      it is used (or rather not used) in the translation/localisation world.
      The major obstacles the speaker mentioned were:
      - minute size of the industry compared to other areas
      - lack of IT sophistication
      - localisation buyers are beleaguered by vendors

      I would also add a certain lack of a collaborative culture in the
      industry.

      Anyway, there are two reasons I am writing this message. When the
      speaker asked the audience which open source tools for translation
      they knew, the first one mentioned was OmegaT (albeit pronounced
      Omega3). Second, I had a brief chat with a guy called Allen Melby and
      he said the things he'd really like to see in OmegaT are XLIFF support
      (well, yeah, working on it) and some decent terminology management. I
      would agree that the second point here is one of the major obstacles to using
      OmegaT as a professional tool.

      Just thought ye might be interested in this.

      Cheers,

      Martin
    • Samuel Murray
      ... I have recently posted some suggestions for glossary methods in OmegaT, but got no reply. Perhaps no-one is interested. Samuel
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 2, 2006
        Martin Wunderlich wrote:

        > ...and some decent terminology management. I
        > would agree that the second point here is one of the major obstacles to using
        > OmegaT as a professional tool.

        I have recently posted some suggestions for glossary methods in OmegaT,
        but got no reply. Perhaps no-one is interested.

        Samuel
      • Jean-Christophe Helary
        No Samuel, very interested. But the current parsing/matching system make the whole thing useless for languages like Japanese for ex. So the first thing to fix
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 2, 2006
          No Samuel, very interested. But the current parsing/matching system
          make the whole thing useless for languages like Japanese for ex. So
          the first thing to fix for me if the parsing/matching engine, and
          that would affect the fuzzy matches too pretty big , and other more
          common languages too.

          Once we have that kind of basic function fixed, the rest comes. Right
          now the strings are not smartly handled at all.

          Jean-Christophe

          On 2006/06/02, at 20:26, Samuel Murray wrote:

          > Martin Wunderlich wrote:
          >
          >> ...and some decent terminology management. I
          >> would agree that the second point here is one of the major
          >> obstacles to using
          >> OmegaT as a professional tool.
          >
          > I have recently posted some suggestions for glossary methods in
          > OmegaT,
          > but got no reply. Perhaps no-one is interested.
          >
          > Samuel
        • Sabine Cretella
          Hi Martin,well: I suppose you had much fun and I hope you got great contacts within that group of people.Martin Wunderlich schrieb: I have just survived
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 2, 2006
            Hi Martin,

            well: I suppose you had much fun and I hope you got great contacts
            within that group of people.

            Martin Wunderlich schrieb:
            > I have just survived three days of Localisation World conference here
            > in Barcelona. There was one session on the open-source model and how
            > it is used (or rather not used) in the translation/localisation world.
            > The major obstacles the speaker mentioned were:
            > - minute size of the industry compared to other areas
            > - lack of IT sophistication
            > - localisation buyers are beleaguered by vendors
            >
            > I would also add a certain lack of a collaborative culture in the
            > industry.
            Well: this is one of the mayor points when it comes to open source ...
            only a very small part really thinks about Open Source. There is one
            thing to consider: when we pay for licenses, sooner or later we will
            have to pay for an update ... well open source can go a very similar way
            - only that instead of paying each of us for licenses we can pay
            (probably smaller amounts) to get certain software
            written/functionalities in present software implemented. It is then
            there for free for all. When it comes to Open Source software, sometimes
            you can also find people who give you a grant or people who give you
            time ... and then it is up to us to use it in a proper way.

            We all who have to do with OpenSource software should underline this
            every now and then, since 1000 people paying 10 EUR each a year gives
            enough space to develop certain stuff. 10 EUR is not even a coffee a
            month ...

            >
            > Anyway, there are two reasons I am writing this message. When the
            > speaker asked the audience which open source tools for translation
            > they knew, the first one mentioned was OmegaT (albeit pronounced
            > Omega3). Second, I had a brief chat with a guy called Allen Melby and
            > he said the things he'd really like to see in OmegaT are XLIFF support
            > (well, yeah, working on it) and some decent terminology management. I
            > would agree that the second point here is one of the major obstacles
            > to using
            > OmegaT as a professional tool.
            >
            > Just thought ye might be interested in this.
            Well, we are very much interested in this. Alan K. Melby
            (http://lisa.org) is a contact of ours when it comes to WiktionaryZ he
            knows about the plans to connect it to OmegaT and he should also know
            about the plans of having OmegaT for translations from one Wiki page to
            the other. He is the right contact when it comes to XLIFF :-) and he can
            do a lot for OmegaT and all connected projects.

            Consider that OmegaT was presented on the previous conference (by Gerard
            within the WiktionaryZ presentation - he receives a copy of this mail)
            where Alan K. Melby and also some other attendants of the Localisation
            World conference were present (I also was asked if I had time to go
            there, but I have no chance due to private probs and summer season) - so
            we are getting more and more audience for OmegaT :-)

            Martin: I already asked you, because I know you also work a lot with
            DéjàVu and know Trados quite well - and in particular because you do a
            lot for OmegaT :-) Do you have time around the 15 th of September? For a
            conference in Salzburg?

            Well, I have to go now.

            Ciao, Sabine




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          • Martin Wunderlich
            Hi Samuel, Which is the message you re referring to? I ve been kinda up the walls recently, so I might have overlooked it. I think some basic export/import
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 2, 2006
              Hi Samuel,

              Which is the message you're referring to? I've been kinda up the walls
              recently, so I might have overlooked it.

              I think some basic export/import functions would be good to have:
              Import from delimited text file, with delimiter selectable (tab,
              comma, semicolon, custom character).

              Cheers,

              Martin

              > Martin Wunderlich wrote:

              >> ...and some decent terminology management. I
              >> would agree that the second point here is one of the major obstacles to using
              >> OmegaT as a professional tool.

              > I have recently posted some suggestions for glossary methods in OmegaT,
              > but got no reply. Perhaps no-one is interested.

              > Samuel
            • Marc Prior
              ... I am certainly intersted, Samuel, but not being able to code in Java (and not having any spare time at the moment, even if I could), interest isn t enough.
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 2, 2006
                Am Freitag 02 Juni 2006 13:26 schrieb Samuel Murray:

                > I have recently posted some suggestions for glossary methods in OmegaT,
                > but got no reply. Perhaps no-one is interested.

                I am certainly intersted, Samuel, but not being able to code in Java (and not
                having any spare time at the moment, even if I could), interest isn't enough.

                If the idea that was floated some time ago of an API for scripting were come
                to fruition, I could theoretically - time permitting - do something in
                tcl/tk. But leaving aside whether users would accept that (probably not, from
                past experience), adding such an API is probably just as much work as adding
                glossary functionality directly.

                Marc
              • Martin Wunderlich
                Hi Sabine, ... Definitely! The whole was very interesting, but a bit too heavy on the whole sales and marketing side. Too much commercial interest, too little
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 2, 2006
                  Hi Sabine,

                  > well: I suppose you had much fun and I hope you got great contacts
                  > within that group of people.

                  Definitely! The whole was very interesting, but a bit too heavy on the
                  whole sales and marketing side. Too much commercial interest, too
                  little interest in real improvements of tools.

                  > Well: this is one of the mayor points when it comes to open source ...
                  > only a very small part really thinks about Open Source. There is one
                  > thing to consider: when we pay for licenses, sooner or later we will
                  > have to pay for an update ... well open source can go a very similar way
                  > - only that instead of paying each of us for licenses we can pay
                  > (probably smaller amounts) to get certain software
                  > written/functionalities in present software implemented. It is then
                  > there for free for all. When it comes to Open Source software, sometimes
                  > you can also find people who give you a grant or people who give you
                  > time ... and then it is up to us to use it in a proper way.

                  > We all who have to do with OpenSource software should underline this
                  > every now and then, since 1000 people paying 10 EUR each a year gives
                  > enough space to develop certain stuff. 10 EUR is not even a coffee a
                  > month ...

                  Gee, coffee must be expensive in Italy. :-)
                  I suppose the problem is getting it started. You need to have the
                  product first to attract people. And the product must be able to
                  compete with professional tools. Then you'd need a lead developer who
                  maintains the code and all the contributions coming from volunteers or
                  paid developers. So, you need some real upfront investments and I have
                  no idea where that should come from. Once that is in place and once a
                  certain critical mass has been reached with regards to the user base,
                  some sort of donation-based or subscription model might work out.

                  I recently thought that perhaps a basic plug-in architecture might
                  come in useful, similiar to the one used by Eclipse. You provide the
                  base functionality and then people can build plug-ins to extend
                  specific features. One might write some great fuzzy matching module,
                  someone else might come up with a good TM server thingy etc. This
                  might also be way to bridge the current gap between the open-source
                  localisation world and commercial translators.

                  > Martin: I already asked you, because I know you also work a lot with
                  > DéjàVu and know Trados quite well - and in particular because you do a
                  > lot for OmegaT :-) Do you have time around the 15 th of September? For a
                  > conference in Salzburg?

                  Sorry, must have missed that message. Can you give me some details on
                  the conference and what my involvement would be?
                  (FWIW, I don't really feel like I am doing a lot for
                  OmegaT at all. That honour belongs with all the many great people who really
                  contribute a lot to the code, the documentation and everything else.
                  So far I haven't even submitted any usable code.)

                  Cheers,

                  Martin
                • Samuel Murray
                  ... Don t worry about it. I ll post it as an RFE. Samuel
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 5, 2006
                    Martin Wunderlich wrote:

                    > Which is the message you're referring to? I've been kinda up the walls
                    > recently, so I might have overlooked it.

                    Don't worry about it. I'll post it as an RFE.

                    Samuel
                  • Maxym Mykhalchuk
                    Hi Martin, Thanks for your report. Though I would object - lack of IT sophistication -- fuzzy matching is not an already solved algorithmic task. ... You
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 9, 2006
                      Hi Martin,

                      Thanks for your report. Though I would object "- lack of IT
                      sophistication" -- fuzzy matching is not an already solved algorithmic
                      task.

                      > some decent terminology management.
                      > I would agree that the second point here is one of the
                      > major obstacles to using OmegaT as a professional tool.

                      You mean somehing better than our Glossary function.
                      It's on my list after DocBook filter I'm working on currently and
                      integrating your XLIFF code.

                      > Just thought ye might be interested in this.

                      Sure!
                      Maxym
                    • Maxym Mykhalchuk
                      ... Sorry Samuel, I ll do that now. Maxym
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 9, 2006
                        > I have recently posted some suggestions for glossary methods in OmegaT,
                        > but got no reply. Perhaps no-one is interested.

                        Sorry Samuel, I'll do that now.

                        Maxym
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