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Re: [OmT] clean/unclean files

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  • Samuel Murray (Krugersdorp)
    ... Get it here: http://leuce.com/tempfile/omtautoit/ It all started here:
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2009
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      Nathalie Marlier Seigneuret wrote:

      > You can also try to use uncleanifyTMX.exe (from the file section, as far as I
      > can remember) which seems to work well, except that you'll have to "repaint" the
      > trados tags with the appropriate style if you want to make believe you worked
      > in Trados. Without the purple/courrier style, the file you obtain is also useable
      > as is.

      Get it here:
      http://leuce.com/tempfile/omtautoit/

      It all started here:
      http://www.proz.com/forum/cat_tools_technical_help/124031-how_to_create_uncleaned_rtf_without_trados.html

      And it was announced and discussed here:
      http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/OmegaT/message/12671
      and further.

      The only big thing is if your text contains hyperlinks, I think.

      Samuel
    • Taija Salo
      Thank you, Tony! I did the Anaphraseus trick and it worked. Taija Posted by: Tony Baldwin photodharma@gmail.com
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2009
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        Thank you, Tony!

        I did the Anaphraseus trick and it worked.


        Taija


        Posted by: "Tony Baldwin" photodharma@...
        <photodharma@...?Subject=+Re%3A%20clean%2Funclean%20files>
        tonytraductor
        <http://profiles.yahoo.com/tonytraductor> Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:13 pm (PDT)
        OmegaT does not create unclean files, no.
        Anaphraseus, however, does (http://anaphraseus.sourceforge.net).
        I use both, now, OmegaT and Anaphraseus.
        OmegaT for the vast bulk of my work, but Anaphraseus when I am asked
        to provide unclean files.
        Anaphraseus functions much, so I'm told, like older versions of Wordfast,
        as a plug-in/extension to OpenOffice.
        It creates TMs in a wordfast type format, but can also export them to tmx,
        and/or, import tmx memories for use with a project...Or more specifically,
        can import 1 (one) tmx file for use with a project.
        Sometimes I translate a document in OmegaT, then open the source file in
        Anaphraseus, import the tmx from the OmegaT project, and let Anaphraseus
        autotranslate the file to generate an unclean file. Sometimes I just
        translate
        the file in Anaphraseus. The advantage in using OmegaT for the translation
        is that
        it can use multiple tmx files for reference.

        /tony




        --
        Taija Salo
        Matti Tapion katu 2 A 4, 33720 Tampere, Finland
        +358 40 7318705
        taija.salo@... * www.taijasalo.fi


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Manuel Souto Pico
        Hi, I m sorry to be asking something that everyone else in the list seems to know, but could someone explain (or provide a reference) what clean(ed) and
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2009
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          Hi,

          I'm sorry to be asking something that everyone else in the list seems to
          know, but could someone explain (or provide a reference) what clean(ed) and
          unclean(ed) files are?

          Thanks a lot!
          Manuel

          2009/7/1 Taija Salo <taija.salo@...>

          >
          >
          > Hello again and thanks for helping me out last time! Whatever it was, you
          > solved it as usual :)
          >
          > Now, on to a client with a Trados/Wordfast requirement... I did search the
          > usergroup archives, but there are answers from years ago, so I will bug
          > with
          > this to get the latest news. So, TMs are no problem, it's up to the agency
          > to use tmx-format. But should they want unclean and cleaned files, I do not
          > know why, are there new developments about this?
          >
          > --
          > Taija Salo
          > Matti Tapion katu 2 A 4, 33720 Tampere, Finland
          > +358 40 7318705
          > taija.salo@... <taija.salo%40gmail.com> * www.taijasalo.fi
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tony Baldwin
          ... Wordfast and Anaphraseus (and some Trados product?) can produce a document bearing both the source and target text. Such a document is unclean . Said
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2009
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            Manuel Souto Pico wrote:
            > Hi,
            >
            > I'm sorry to be asking something that everyone else in the list seems to
            > know, but could someone explain (or provide a reference) what clean(ed) and
            > unclean(ed) files are?

            Wordfast and Anaphraseus (and some Trados product?) can produce a
            document bearing both the source and target text.
            Such a document is "unclean". Said document can be "cleaned up",
            removing the source text to show only the target text.

            This image
            http://www.linguasos.org/img/anaman8.jpg
            shows a translation in progress in Anaphraseus, in which you can see
            both source and target text. The shown document is "unclean".

            Also, for Jewish and Muslim translators, any document that mentions
            bacon, ham, or pork sausage is "unclean". (jk...couldn't resist...)

            be well,
            tony
            --
            http://www.baldwinsoftware.com
            free/open source software
          • Manuel Souto Pico
            ÔßÑÇð ÌÒíáÇð, Tony. ÃäÇ ÃÝÍã ÇáÃä Åäø áÍã ÎäÒíä áíÓ äÙíÝ Manuel PS. Please let me know if you need the translation ;)
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 1, 2009
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              ����� ������, Tony.
              ��� ���� ����
              ��� ��� ����� ��� ����

              Manuel

              PS. Please let me know if you need the translation ;)

              2009/7/2 Tony Baldwin <photodharma@...>

              >
              >
              > Manuel Souto Pico wrote:
              > > Hi,
              > >
              > > I'm sorry to be asking something that everyone else in the list seems to
              > > know, but could someone explain (or provide a reference) what clean(ed)
              > and
              > > unclean(ed) files are?
              >
              > Wordfast and Anaphraseus (and some Trados product?) can produce a
              > document bearing both the source and target text.
              > Such a document is "unclean". Said document can be "cleaned up",
              > removing the source text to show only the target text.
              >
              > This image
              > http://www.linguasos.org/img/anaman8.jpg
              > shows a translation in progress in Anaphraseus, in which you can see
              > both source and target text. The shown document is "unclean".
              >
              > Also, for Jewish and Muslim translators, any document that mentions
              > bacon, ham, or pork sausage is "unclean". (jk...couldn't resist...)
              >
              > be well,
              > tony
              > --
              > http://www.baldwinsoftware.com
              > free/open source software
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Tony Baldwin
              ... I m afraid that, whatever that is, it s not on my list of languages... (EN, FR, ES, PT). ... tony -- http://www.baldwinsoftware.com free/open source
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 1, 2009
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                Manuel Souto Pico wrote:
                > ÔßÑÇð ÌÒíáÇð, Tony.
                > ÃäÇ ÃÝÍã ÇáÃä
                > Åäø áÍã ÎäÒíä áíÓ äÙíÝ
                >
                > Manuel
                >
                > PS. Please let me know if you need the translation ;)

                I'm afraid that, whatever that is, it's not on my list of languages...
                (EN, FR, ES, PT).

                :)
                tony
                --
                http://www.baldwinsoftware.com
                free/open source software
                tcl yer os with a feather...
              • Manuel Souto Pico
                Oh, too bad. The characters got corrupted. It was supposed to be Arabic and say: Thank you, Tony. I understand now. Indeed pork is filthy ;) Cheers, - Manuel
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 1, 2009
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                  Oh, too bad. The characters got corrupted. It was supposed to be Arabic and
                  say: Thank you, Tony. I understand now. Indeed pork is filthy ;)

                  Cheers,
                  -
                  Manuel Souto Pico
                  Linguistic Services (en/fr/pt/ca > gl/es)
                  Tel. +34 686.846.554
                  Email: m.soutopico@...
                  Web: http://www.msoutopico.es/


                  2009/7/2 Tony Baldwin <photodharma@...>

                  >
                  >
                  > Manuel Souto Pico wrote:
                  > > ÔßÑÇð ÌÒíáÇð, Tony.
                  > > ÃäÇ ÃÝÍã ÇáÃä
                  > > Åäø áÍã ÎäÒíä áíÓ äÙíÝ
                  >
                  > >
                  > > Manuel
                  > >
                  > > PS. Please let me know if you need the translation ;)
                  >
                  > I'm afraid that, whatever that is, it's not on my list of languages...
                  > (EN, FR, ES, PT).
                  >
                  > :)
                  > tony
                  > --
                  > http://www.baldwinsoftware.com
                  > free/open source software
                  > tcl yer os with a feather...
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Taija Salo
                  Now that we know what unclean files are and how we can produce them, I may as well go further and ask just exactly what are they good for? Why do clients need
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 2, 2009
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                    Now that we know what unclean files are and how we can produce them, I may
                    as well go further and ask just exactly what are they good for? Why do
                    clients need them?


                    Taija

                    Posted by: "Manuel Souto Pico" m.soutopico@...
                    <m.soutopico@...?Subject=+Re%3A%20clean%2Funclean%20files>
                    xinalasnjicov
                    <http://profiles.yahoo.com/xinalasnjicov> Wed Jul 1, 2009 2:52 pm (PDT)

                    Hi,

                    I'm sorry to be asking something that everyone else in the list seems to
                    know, but could someone explain (or provide a reference) what clean(ed) and
                    unclean(ed) files are?

                    Thanks a lot!
                    Manuel




                    --
                    Taija Salo
                    Matti Tapion katu 2 A 4, 33720 Tampere, Finland
                    +358 40 7318705
                    taija.salo@... * www.taijasalo.fi


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Nathalie Marlier Seigneuret
                    Taija, They need them to create their own TMs with which they will pretranslate further documents. Then they will tell you Here is a 50,000 words project.
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 2, 2009
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                      Taija,
                      They need them to create their own TMs with which they will pretranslate further
                      documents. Then they will tell you Here is a 50,000 words project. There are 25,000
                      pre-translated words, hence, I will pay you for 25,000 words only. But you'll
                      have to check the pre-translated portions and remain consistent with them. :-\

                      Nathalie

                      Le 02/07/2009 à 10:18, Taija Salo <taija.salo@...> à écrit :
                      Now that we know what unclean files are and how we can produce them, I may
                      as well go further and ask just exactly what are they good for? Why do
                      clients need them?


                      Taija


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Marc Prior
                      Taija, What Nathalie said. :-) However, there are also good reasons why some customers want bilingual ( unclean ) files. Firstly, it is not necessarily a bad
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 2, 2009
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                        Taija,

                        What Nathalie said. :-)

                        However, there are also good reasons why some customers want bilingual
                        ("unclean") files.

                        Firstly, it is not necessarily a bad thing for customers to want
                        translation memories. It isn't always possible for the same translator
                        to do jobs for the same end customer (capacity bottlenecks, holidays),
                        and if a different translator is given a job, it's helpful if he or she
                        can be supplied with translation memories from previous jobs. (So why
                        not just send TMX files, you ask. Read on.)

                        The customer may have your translation checked and edited by another
                        translator. If the changes are made to a bilingual file, it is possible
                        to create both the final translated document and a TMX file from this
                        after the changes have been made. If only a translated file and
                        translation memory are delivered, the customer (or his checker/editor)
                        can edit the translated file, e.g. in Word, but there is no convenient
                        way of updating the translation memory to reflect the changes.

                        There are various ways of handling bilingual files in OmegaT,
                        particularly using Toxic and Rainbow. See also the compatibility HowTo
                        on the OmegaT website.

                        Marc


                        Taija Salo wrote:
                        > Now that we know what unclean files are and how we can produce them, I may
                        > as well go further and ask just exactly what are they good for? Why do
                        > clients need them?
                        >
                        >
                        > Taija
                        >
                        > Posted by: "Manuel Souto Pico" m.soutopico@...
                        > <m.soutopico@...?Subject=+Re%3A%20clean%2Funclean%20files>
                        > xinalasnjicov
                        > <http://profiles.yahoo.com/xinalasnjicov> Wed Jul 1, 2009 2:52 pm (PDT)
                        >
                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > I'm sorry to be asking something that everyone else in the list seems to
                        > know, but could someone explain (or provide a reference) what clean(ed) and
                        > unclean(ed) files are?
                        >
                        > Thanks a lot!
                        > Manuel
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Samuel Murray (Krugersdorp)
                        ... The biggest advantage of an uncleaned file is that it is a bilingual file. In other words, the source and target is included in a single document.
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 2, 2009
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                          Taija Salo wrote:

                          > Now that we know what unclean files are and how we can produce them, I may
                          > as well go further and ask just exactly what are they good for? Why do
                          > clients need them?

                          The biggest advantage of an uncleaned file is that it is a bilingual
                          file. In other words, the source and target is included in a single
                          document. Another advantage is that since it is an MS Word file (or an
                          RTF file), you don't have to tag the formatting (although I have met
                          some translators who find it easier to work with tagged text than with
                          WYSIWIG formatted text). Another advantage is that you can mark up
                          certain portions of text in the file in a visual sort of way for the
                          translator to treat in certain ways. This advantage is similar to the
                          advantage that you can mark up portions of text as "untranslatable" so
                          that the CAT tool will automatically ignore it even though the user can
                          see it. Another advantage is that a reviewer can use Track Changes, and
                          when the changes are accepted/rejected, the TM gets updated with the
                          changes very quickly (in a flash, so to speak). Even if the reviewer
                          doesn't use Track Changes, he can edit/review the translation even if he
                          doesn't have the correct CAT tool installed, and when he's done, his
                          client (or the translator) can incorporate the changes into the TM with
                          the press of a button. And... splitting or merging segments is as easy
                          as copying certain characters over from one place to another (if the CAT
                          tool can't do it for you already).

                          The trend in modern CAT tools seem to be to export source files to a
                          bilingual format, then translate the bilingual format, and then recreate
                          or merge the translation with the original file. In Trados 2009, it is
                          a dialect of XLIFF. In Trados 2007, it is TTX (although Trados 2007
                          also worked with uncleaned files).

                          Uncleaned files won't have much use for you unless you have a CAT tool
                          that natively works with it. So you can use UncleanifyTMX to create an
                          uncleaned file from OmegaT but you won't benefit from it. And if the
                          client sends the uncleaned file back to you, with changes, you won't be
                          able to incorporate the changes into your TM easily (although it would
                          be interesting to see if a reverse of UncleanifyTMX could be created).

                          Samuel
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