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  • Roberta
    Aniin Sikwa Anishnabek Just thought I would say hello
    Message 1 of 58 , Apr 30, 2005
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      Aniin Sikwa Anishnabek

      Just thought I would say "hello"
    • Kees van Kolmeschate
      Aaniin Charlie, Allow me a few remarks. I do not know whether it is wise to name the complement of verbs like minwendan, wanendan a participle . Cf
      Message 58 of 58 , Sep 25, 2009
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        Aaniin Charlie,

        Allow me a few remarks.

        I do not know whether it is wise to name the complement of verbs like minwendan, wanendan "a participle". Cf Nishnaabemwin Reference Grammar.

        You use a number of unusual - and I am sorry to say: confusing - grammatical terms when you speak of "independent order form of the participle" and "conjunct order form of the participle".
        I thought that participles are always related to the conjunct order.

        Different Ojibwe varieties use different strategies for forming participles, one of them being gaa-. It seems to me that this gaa- is not the initial change form of a pv3 gii-, but rather a pv1. I quote now a form from Pat NIngewance's "Naasaab Izhi-anishinaabebii'igeng" report.
        Quebec gaa-onjiid : (she) who comes from Quebec
        gaa-gii-biizhaawaad : (they) who have come
        where gaa- is placed _before_ the past tense pv1 gii-

        Also I wonder if
        niminwendaan gaa-waabamag
        is a correct way of saying "I am happy to see him/her".
        It would rather mean "I, who see him/her, am happy about it"
        Comment??

        The forms with e- are perhaps best regarded as conjunct order forms with initial change (for which e- constitutes a simple device. especially in syncopating language varieties).

        To conclude I would like to quote again Pat Ningewance who writes in Talking Gookom's Language i.a.
        gi-gii-noondam na e-wii-wiidiged iinzan Martin?
        with "did you hear" said with a vai2 and not a vti verb.

        niin sa, Kees.


        --- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "jirolippert" <cjlippert@...> wrote:
        >
        > Literally, you're saying "Quite often, I like the seeing of them" and not "I really want to see him/her". In "seeing of them"... "seeing" is the object, not "them", which is why you're using "minwendan (vti): like ST; please with ST" and not minwenim (vtai): like SB; please with SB".
        >
        > When you make "waabam (vta): see SB" into a participle, there are many strategies, including changing the word into its conjunct order. If you use the independent order form of the participle, you must go through the initial vowel change. You can add "gii- (pv3): where; when" and have it go through the initial vowel change, but in Eastern Ojibwe, Odaawaa and Oji-cree, and to a lesser degree, also North of Lake Superior Ojibwe, you instead add "a- (pv1): where; which; when" and have it go through the initial vowel change. If you use the conjunct order form of the participle, initial vowel change happens with most (but not all) communities and even there, with most (but not all) speakers, and even there, with most (but not all) words.
        >
        > "awiinge iko niminwendaan e-waabamag"
        > ("wiinge ko nminwendaan e-waabmag")
        >
        > "awiinge iko niminwendaan gaa-waabamag"
        > ("wiinge ko nminwendaan gaa-waabmag")
        >
        > "awiinge iko niminwendaan wayaabamag"
        > ("wiinge ko nminwendaan wyaabmag")
        >
        > --- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "danyriopelle" <danyriopelle@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Aaniish naa, miinawaa.
        > >
        > > Miigwech mayaada'oozhiyan, gakina mayaada'oozhiyaang
        > > dash gi-gikendaasowin. Bakaan go ni-wii-gagwejimin
        > > gishpin babaamenimisinowaan. Daga waawiindamawishin
        > > "e-" aawechigan... aaniin dash "Wiinge ko ni-minwendaan
        > > e-waabamag", aaniin danaa "Wiinge ko ni-minwendaan
        > > waabamag"? Aanii bekaanakin?
        > >
        > > Thank you for sharing your knowledge with me and all
        > > of us. I'd like to ask you something else, if you don't
        > > mind. Please explain the "e-" form...when we want to say,
        > > "I really want to see him/her", why "Wiinge ko ni-minwendaan
        > > e-waabamag", why not "Wiinge ko ni-minwendaan waabamag"?
        > > Why the difference?
        > >
        > > Dany/Wemitigoozhi
        >
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