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enough is enough, eh? New year coming, make peace

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  • Lisa McCrory
    Oh please Mark - I was going to refrain from this banter, but you are making a lot of hurtful accusations and I need to clarify/correct: 1) the only censorship
    Message 1 of 20 , Dec 7, 2009
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      Oh please Mark - 

      I was going to refrain from this banter, but you are making a lot of hurtful accusations and I need to clarify/correct:

      1) the only censorship NODPA (AKA, NODPA Board) did was with you and emails like this are a perfect reason why we did it.
      2) Ed has never 'ruled' the NODPA list. I have always been a part of decisions, as has NODPA board members. What ever you accuse Ed of you are also accusing me and others, and personally I resent that.
      3) I have been a recipient of your less-than-professional phone calls and emails and I have received personal emails from others who got t hem as well (who do not wish to be mentioned).
      4) As for the logos,we were trying to do some banner advertising (which was not received well) and in order to do that, logos would have interfered with that project. We have decided not to move forward with this project at this time.

      NODPA is a wonderful organization and has done amazing things for organic dairy producers nation wide. That effort has come from many, many people - me being one f them - along with some very dedicated organic dairy producers. The Odairy list was created for NODPA and numerous hours and resources have been invested into growing the discussion list, building resources on the website (www.nodpa.com) and advocating for organic farmers on a national level. If having two different lists makes people happy, then I say, great ... have two lists. one looks like Odairy (yahoo) and the other looks like ODAIRY (NODPA)

      Please... lets keep these lists productive and useful. We are approaching a new year... can we just move on and support one another?


      Thank you, 

      Lisa McCrory
      NODPA News and Web Editor
      dairy producer (certifying our 2-cow raw milk dairy this year)
      802-234-5524

      On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Mark A. Kastel - The Cornucopia Institute wrote:


      Good morning Ed,

       

      Due to the censorship on the NODPA list I have been unable to have an opportunity to post any news articles or provide any balance or commentary to what has been posted on the list you administer.  But due to the volunteer efforts of Bill and Lyle (thank you both) the original Odairy list is open to everyone, presumably including me (this is a test and my first attempt).

       

      You have ruled the NODPA list, with the backing of your board, with an iron fist.  You have admitted that my voice has been excluded from the discussions because of considerations that have happened "off the list."  It should be noted however that I adamantly dispute that my communications has ever been less than professional.  But, if you don't like what you are hearing you are going to be uncomfortable with Cornucopia's frank honesty.

       

      I was excluded from the Odairy list because of the "logo" issue.  However, since then, other groups have posted logos and you and Lisa even posted two press releases from Cornucopia …. including our logo.  And the system did not crash.

       

      Ed, I was excluded from Odairy because I factually challenged misinformation you were putting out.  Many, on the NODPA list found this censorship repugnant. 

       

      The point that I was cut off was when I pointed out that unlike the information you presented to the organic dairy community, from Dean Foods/Horizon, that the cattle removed from their industrial dairy in  Idaho had been taken out of organic production …. the information you put out was patently false.  As we all now know thousands of cows were transferred to New Mexico to their two new factory farms that operate there …..  This at a time when some of Dean/Horizon' s family farms were being eliminated and/or put on quota.

       

      So I don't think there is much confusion in terms of the two different lists.  One is administered by two independent dairy farmers independent of either of NODPA or Cornucopia, or as far as I know any other organizations.  And the other is a private list which makes and enforces its own rules.

       

      If you want to reduce the amount of confusion I would encourage you to put "NODPA" in the header of your messages and rename your list since you have confirmed that Bill is the owner of the name and original Odairy list.

       

      Sincerely yours,

       

      Mark A. Kastel

      Senior Farm Policy Analyst

      The Cornucopia Institute

       

       

       

       

      Mark A. Kastel

      The Cornucopia Institute

      kastel@cornucopia. org

      608-625-2042 Voice

      866-861-2214 Fax

       

       

      <image001.jpg>

       

      P.O. Box 126

      Cornucopia,  Wisconsin  54827

      www.cornucopia. org

       

       

       


      From: Odairy@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Odairy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ed Maltby
      Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:31 AM
      To: Odairy@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: RE: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

       

       

      Lyle

      It amazes me that you and  Mark Kastel continue to spread such lies.

      You have no proof as it has never happened. Slander like that doesn’t hurt me  (those that think that I have the time and the inclination to restrict posts obviously do not know me or my schedule) but it does hurt organic dairy and the ability for NODPA and FOOD Farmers to represent organic dairy farmers.

      The moderators of NODPA, of which there are 3, censor nothing and nobody.

      Are you also accusing Lisa McCrory of censoring posts? She has equal rights as moderator to me. All posts sent to Odairy have always been posted.

      The owners of Odairy, NODPA Board, decided to take away  Mark Kastel right to post on Odairy because of numerous complaints about off and on-list harassment and intimidation which were causing folks to stop posting and restricting the exchange of information, and is a few cases making them ill because of his relentless pursuit of his own opinion.

      It has nothing to do with his views and nobody has ever been restricted in saying what they want to.

       

      At times like this it does no benefit to organic dairy families to cause further confusion and division.

      Best wishes

       

       

      Ed Maltby

      30 Keets Rd

      Deerfield,  MA  01342

       

      Tel  413-772-0444

      Fax 866-554-9483

      Cell 413-427-7323

      mailto:emaltby@ comcast.net

       

       

       

      From: Odairy@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Odairy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lyle Edwards
      Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:18 AM
      To: Odairy@yahoogroups. com
      Subject: Re: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

       

       

      Hi Gwyneth,

       

      Basically, we reactivated the original Odairy list because the administrator of the NODPA list was censoring people who's opinions he did not like. We as independent farmers felt that we needed a a list that was open to all. 

       

      All are welcome to participate in the discussion on Yahoo Odairy. The reactivated Odairy list has no affiliation with NODPA, Cornucopia, NOFA, etc. Unlike the NODPA list, Yahoo Odairy will be  not moderated. The Odairy name is owned by Bill Casey. He started Odairy so everyone's voices could be heard.

       

      Lyle Edwards

      dairy farmer

      Westfield, Vermont

       

       

       

      ----- Original Message -----

      Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:51 AM

      Subject: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

       

       

      OK, so this is an interesting twist to the list(s)... Are they 
      connected at all? Or two entirely different lists?

      I would love it if the new-old yahoo could have a different header on 
      the e-mails that come in... I know, I know, this list had the name 
      first. BUt I'm just talking from a practical standpoint. I don't 
      want to end up posting a reply to the wring list by mistake, and if 
      I'm following a discussion on one list, I'd like to be able to 
      differentiate between the two lists easily and quickly when I go 
      through my mailbox...

      Gwyneth Harris
      Unity, ME
      4 cows and growing...



      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
      Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/06/09 07:30:00



    • Mark A. Kastel - The Cornucopia Institute
      THE POLITICS OF HATE AND DIVISION = if you do not agree with someone s perspective, and you cannot win based on a healthy and honest debate, it is effective to
      Message 2 of 20 , Dec 7, 2009
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        THE POLITICS OF HATE AND DIVISION = if you do not agree with someone's perspective, and you cannot win based on a healthy and honest debate, it is effective to attack them personally.

         

        Lisa, no matter what Ed has done in the past you and other NODPA officials have defended him.  I know Ed is your friend and respected by many within NODPA.  But sometimes even our friends engage in conduct that we need to question.

         

        I notice you are not talking about, in your message below, the misinformation Ed posted on behalf of Dean Foods.  This is another classic tactic in political discourse: CHANGE THE SUBJECT.  

         

        The of concentrated only on the fact that I have challenged him, and will continue to challenge Ed or anyone else, that helps the corporations that are operating factory farms and undermining the livelihoods of organic dairy producers.  Attacks on me, personally, or on The Cornucopia Institute, are third tactic commonly used in political battles: KILL THE MESSENGER.

         

        Please see comments below…

        Oh please Mark - 

         

        I was going to refrain from this banter, but you are making a lot of hurtful accusations and I need to clarify/correct:

         

        1) the only censorship NODPA (AKA, NODPA Board) did was with you and emails like this are a perfect reason why we did it.

         

        I stand behind everything that was included in my prior e-mail and there was certainly nothing unprofessional in its tenor.

         

        2) Ed has never 'ruled' the NODPA list. I have always been a part of decisions, as has NODPA board members. What ever you accuse Ed of you are also accusing me and others, and personally I resent that.

        3) I have been a recipient of your less-than-professio nal phone calls and emails and I have received personal emails from others who got t hem as well (who do not wish to be mentioned).

         

        I called you, the past, to explore making peace with Ed.  You backed him 100% and there was no room for a discussion concerning legitimate concerns about his conduct.  Again, if you don't like what I had to say, and it may feel uncomfortable, that is not the same thing as "less than professional conduct."  I will continue to dispute those accusations.  Lisa, if you think that any e-mail correspondence I have shared with you is unprofessional, I fully authorize you to share it publicly (only in its complete unedited form, in context, with the complete thread).

         

        4) As for the logos,we were trying to do some banner advertising (which was not received well) and in order to do that, logos would have interfered with that project. We have decided not to move forward with this project at this time.

         

        So, other groups and individuals could post logos before and after the brouhaha about Cornucopia's logo and now that I have been removed from the list we won't make an issue of logos any longer?  One might call that "selective enforcement."

         

        NODPA is a wonderful organization and has done amazing things for organic dairy producers nation wide. That effort has come from many, many people - me being one f them - along with some very dedicated organic dairy producers. The Odairy list was created for NODPA and numerous hours and resources have been invested into growing the discussion list, building resources on the website (www.nodpa.com) and advocating for organic farmers on a national level. If having two different lists makes people happy, then I say, great ... have two lists. one looks like Odairy (yahoo) and the other looks like ODAIRY (NODPA)

         

        I for one will not take away any of the accomplishments from NODPA.  But that does not indemnify the organization from criticism when unethical conduct takes place by your Executive Director.  And my response here should do nothing to indicate that I don't have respect for all the volunteer and paid time you have invested in helping build the organic dairy community.  But your unequivocal support of Ed is not backed up by the facts in this matter.

         

        Please... lets keep these lists productive and useful. We are approaching a new year... can we just move on and support one another?

         

        So Lisa, after more personal criticism you want to suggest that we all "Move On."  I'm all for that.  Let's stick to the facts and we will all, at least on this Yahoo list, be welcome to express our own opinions, whether we agree with each other or not.

         

        Mark

         

        Thank you, 

         

        Lisa McCrory

        NODPA News and Web Editor

        dairy producer (certifying our 2-cow raw milk dairy this year)

        802-234-5524

         

        On Dec 7, 2009, at 8:48 AM, Mark A. Kastel - The Cornucopia Institute wrote:



         

        Good morning Ed,

         

        Due to the censorship on the NODPA list I have been unable to have an opportunity to post any news articles or provide any balance or commentary to what has been posted on the list you administer.  But due to the volunteer efforts of Bill and Lyle (thank you both) the original Odairy list is open to everyone, presumably including me (this is a test and my first attempt).

         

        You have ruled the NODPA list, with the backing of your board, with an iron fist.  You have admitted that my voice has been excluded from the discussions because of considerations that have happened "off the list."  It should be noted however that I adamantly dispute that my communications has ever been less than professional.  But, if you don't like what you are hearing you are going to be uncomfortable with Cornucopia's frank honesty.

         

        I was excluded from the Odairy list because of the "logo" issue.  However, since then, other groups have posted logos and you and Lisa even posted two press releases from Cornucopia …. including our logo.  And the system did not crash.

         

        Ed, I was excluded from Odairy because I factually challenged misinformation you were putting out.  Many, on the NODPA list found this censorship repugnant. 

         

        The point that I was cut off was when I pointed out that unlike the information you presented to the organic dairy community, from Dean Foods/Horizon, that the cattle removed from their industrial dairy in  Idaho had been taken out of organic production …. the information you put out was patently false.  As we all now know thousands of cows were transferred to New Mexico to their two new factory farms that operate there …..  This at a time when some of Dean/Horizon' s family farms were being eliminated and/or put on quota.

         

        So I don't think there is much confusion in terms of the two different lists.  One is administered by two independent dairy farmers independent of either of NODPA or Cornucopia, or as far as I know any other organizations.  And the other is a private list which makes and enforces its own rules.

         

        If you want to reduce the amount of confusion I would encourage you to put "NODPA" in the header of your messages and rename your list since you have confirmed that Bill is the owner of the name and original Odairy list.

         

        Sincerely yours,

         

        Mark A. Kastel

        Senior Farm Policy Analyst

        The Cornucopia Institute

         

         

         

         

        Mark A. Kastel

        The Cornucopia Institute

        kastel@cornucopia. org

        608-625-2042 Voice

        866-861-2214 Fax

         

         

        <image001.jpg>

         

        P.O. Box  126

        Cornucopia ,  Wisconsin  54827

        www.cornucopia. org

         

         

         


        From: Odairy@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Odairy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ed Maltby
        Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:31 AM
        To: Odairy@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: RE: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

         

         

        Lyle

        It amazes me that you and  Mark Kastel continue to spread such lies.

        You have no proof as it has never happened. Slander like that doesn’t hurt me  (those that think that I have the time and the inclination to restrict posts obviously do not know me or my schedule) but it does hurt organic dairy and the ability for NODPA and FOOD Farmers to represent organic dairy farmers.

        The moderators of NODPA, of which there are 3, censor nothing and nobody.

        Are you also accusing Lisa McCrory of censoring posts? She has equal rights as moderator to me. All posts sent to Odairy have always been posted.

        The owners of Odairy, NODPA Board, decided to take away  Mark Kastel right to post on Odairy because of numerous complaints about off and on-list harassment and intimidation which were causing folks to stop posting and restricting the exchange of information, and is a few cases making them ill because of his relentless pursuit of his own opinion.

        It has nothing to do with his views and nobody has ever been restricted in saying what they want to.

         

        At times like this it does no benefit to organic dairy families to cause further confusion and division.

        Best wishes

         

         

        Ed Maltby

        30 Keets Rd

        Deerfield ,  MA  01342

         

        Tel  413-772-0444

        Fax 866-554-9483

        Cell 413-427-7323

        mailto:emaltby@ comcast.net

         

         

         

        From: Odairy@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Odairy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lyle Edwards
        Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:18 AM
        To: Odairy@yahoogroups. com
        Subject: Re: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

         

         

        Hi Gwyneth,

         

        Basically, we reactivated the original Odairy list because the administrator of the NODPA list was censoring people who's opinions he did not like. We as independent farmers felt that we needed a a list that was open to all. 

         

        All are welcome to participate in the discussion on Yahoo Odairy. The reactivated Odairy list has no affiliation with NODPA, Cornucopia, NOFA, etc. Unlike the NODPA list, Yahoo Odairy will be  not moderated. The Odairy name is owned by Bill Casey. He started Odairy so everyone's voices could be heard.

         

        Lyle Edwards

        dairy farmer

        Westfield , Vermont

         

         

         

        ----- Original Message -----

        Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:51 AM

        Subject: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

         

         

        OK, so this is an interesting twist to the list(s)... Are they 
        connected at all? Or two entirely different lists?

        I would love it if the new-old yahoo could have a different header on 
        the e-mails that come in... I know, I know, this list had the name 
        first. BUt I'm just talking from a practical standpoint. I don't 
        want to end up posting a reply to the wring list by mistake, and if 
        I'm following a discussion on one list, I'd like to be able to 
        differentiate between the two lists easily and quickly when I go 
        through my mailbox...

        Gwyneth Harris
        Unity, ME
        4 cows and growing...



        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 
        Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/06/09 07:30:00

         

         

      • gmcn@uninets.net
        Well said Lisa. Mark, do you have any personal knowledge of any of the people you attack? Have you worked with them? HAve you sat down to dinner with them?
        Message 3 of 20 , Dec 7, 2009
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          Well said Lisa.

          Mark, do you have any personal knowledge of any of the people you attack?
          Have you worked with them? HAve you sat down to dinner with them?
          watched them milk their cows?

          Differing opinions are just that. And we can banter all day long...
          That's why we're on this list. But you can't make unfounded statements
          about people's personal conduct. I think there are very few participants
          in either of these lists that don't work really hard to support their
          families, take care of their animals, and further the reputation and name
          of organic dairy.

          You don't have to write a manifesto on every person that disagrees with
          you... I think you can do your (very good) work without engaging to that
          personal level every person with a differing opinion.

          Looking forward to some discussions of dairy topics other than MArk...

          Gwyneth in Unity, ME
          4 cows and growing...

          > Oh please Mark -
          >
        • Henry Perkins
          What Ed has said is correct.He does not rule the Nodpa list ³with an iron fist².He has censored no one without approval of the board,no matter what others
          Message 4 of 20 , Dec 7, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            Re: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy = doubletalk What Ed has said is correct.He does not rule the Nodpa list “with an iron fist”.He has censored no one without approval of the board,no matter what others have said.

            Mark,keep in mind that one’s perceptions of whether or not your communications have always been “professional”depends a great deal on whether or not you are on the giving or receiving end of these communications. I have found some of yours to me to be civil and reasonable and others to be quite “unprofessional”.I have gotten emails and phone calls from those on the receiving end of some of your “professional” communications that also objected to your level of professionalism.

            You,Mark were excluded from posting because of this and the fact that you were asked repeatedly to follow the guidelines and chose to ignore them,which basicly boiled down to the fact that you were taunting me. The decision to remove your posting privledges  was made before the “logo” issue came up.

            I accept all responsibility for this action,and from now on ,direct all personal attacks to me,as I was the one who directed Ed to remove you.

            Henry Perkins








            On 12/7/09 8:48 AM, "Mark A. Kastel - The Cornucopia Institute" <kastel@...> wrote:


             
             
               

            Good morning Ed,
             
            Due to the censorship on the NODPA list I have been unable to have an opportunity to post any news articles or provide any balance or commentary to what has been posted on the list you administer. But due to the volunteer efforts of Bill and Lyle (thank you both) the original Odairy list is open to everyone, presumably including me (this is a test and my first attempt).
             
            You have ruled the NODPA list, with the backing of your board, with an iron fist.  You have admitted that my voice has been excluded from the discussions because of considerations that have happened "off the list."  It should be noted however that I adamantly dispute that my communications has ever been less than professional. But, if you don't like what you are hearing you are going to be uncomfortable with Cornucopia's frank honesty.
             
            I was excluded from the Odairy list because of the "logo" issue.  However, since then, other groups have posted logos and you and Lisa even posted two press releases from Cornucopia …. including our logo.  And the system did not crash.
             
            Ed, I was excluded from Odairy because I factually challenged misinformation you were putting out.  Many, on the NODPA list found this censorship repugnant.  
             
            The point that I was cut off was when I pointed out that unlike the information you presented to the organic dairy community, from Dean Foods/Horizon, that the cattle removed from their industrial dairy in Idaho had been taken out of organic production …. the information you put out was patently false.  As we all now know thousands of cows were transferred to New Mexico to their two new factory farms that operate there …..  This at a time when some of Dean/Horizon's family farms were being eliminated and/or put on quota.
             
            So I don't think there is much confusion in terms of the two different lists.  One is administered by two independent dairy farmers independent of either of NODPA or Cornucopia, or as far as I know any other organizations.  And the other is a private list which makes and enforces its own rules.
             
            If you want to reduce the amount of confusion I would encourage you to put "NODPA" in the header of your messages and rename your list since you have confirmed that Bill is the owner of the name and original Odairy list.
             
            Sincerely yours,
             
            Mark A. Kastel
            Senior Farm Policy Analyst
            The Cornucopia Institute
             

             
             

            Mark A. Kastel
            The Cornucopia Institute
            kastel@...
            608-625-2042 Voice
            866-861-2214
            Fax

             



            P.O. Box
            126
            Cornucopia, Wisconsin 54827
            www.cornucopia.org <http://www.cornucopia.org/>




            From: Odairy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Odairy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed Maltby
            Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:31 AM
            To: Odairy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

              

            Lyle
            It amazes me that you and Mark Kastel continue to spread such lies.
            You have no proof as it has never happened. Slander like that doesn’t hurt me  (those that think that I have the time and the inclination to restrict posts obviously do not know me or my schedule) but it does hurt organic dairy and the ability for NODPA and FOOD Farmers to represent organic dairy farmers.
            The moderators of NODPA, of which there are 3, censor nothing and nobody.
            Are you also accusing Lisa McCrory of censoring posts? She has equal rights as moderator to me. All posts sent to Odairy have always been posted.
            The owners of Odairy, NODPA Board, decided to take away Mark Kastel right to post on Odairy because of numerous complaints about off and on-list harassment and intimidation which were causing folks to stop posting and restricting the exchange of information, and is a few cases making them ill because of his relentless pursuit of his own opinion.
            It has nothing to do with his views and nobody has ever been restricted in saying what they want to.
             
            At times like this it does no benefit to organic dairy families to cause further confusion and division.
            Best wishes
             
             

            Ed Maltby
            30 Keets Rd
            Deerfield
            , MA 01342

            Tel  413-772-0444
            Fax 866-554-9483
            Cell 413-427-7323
            mailto:emaltby@...
             
             


            From: Odairy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Odairy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lyle Edwards
            Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:18 AM
            To: Odairy@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

              

            Hi Gwyneth,



            Basically, we reactivated the original Odairy list because the administrator of the NODPA list was censoring people who's opinions he did not like. We as independent farmers felt that we needed a a list that was open to all.



            All are welcome to participate in the discussion on Yahoo Odairy. The reactivated Odairy list has no affiliation with NODPA, Cornucopia, NOFA, etc. Unlike the NODPA list, Yahoo Odairy will be  not moderated. The Odairy name is owned by Bill Casey. He started Odairy so everyone's voices could be heard.



            Lyle Edwards

            dairy farmer

            Westfield,Vermont







            ----- Original Message -----

            From: gwyneth harris <mailto:gmcn@...>  

            To: Odairy@yahoogroups.com

            Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:51 AM

            Subject: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy


              

            OK, so this is an interesting twist to the list(s)... Are they
            connected at all? Or two entirely different lists?

            I would love it if the new-old yahoo could have a different header on
            the e-mails that come in... I know, I know, this list had the name
            first. BUt I'm just talking from a practical standpoint. I don't
            want to end up posting a reply to the wring list by mistake, and if
            I'm following a discussion on one list, I'd like to be able to
            differentiate between the two lists easily and quickly when I go
            through my mailbox...

            Gwyneth Harris
            Unity, ME
            4 cows and growing...



            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
            Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2548 - Release Date: 12/06/09 07:30:00


               



          • Mark A. Kastel - The Cornucopia Institute
            Dear Henry, I will make the same encouragement to you. If you think that any of the e-mails I ve sent you are somehow disrespectful I would ask you just share
            Message 5 of 20 , Dec 7, 2009
            • 0 Attachment

              Dear Henry,

               

              I will make the same encouragement to you.  If you think that any of the e-mails I've sent you are somehow disrespectful I would ask you just share them, unedited, in their entirety, with the list along with the entire thread so it is placed in context.  I can only remember one time, ever, losing my composure in an e-mail after being attacked publicly by Ed and the NODPA failing to act.  But I'm human too.

               

              Since you want to take personal responsibility for Ed’s past conduct on the list, and you know this to be correct, that we have spent literally years, at Cornucopia, appealing to you and other board members to take action.  We have always looked at NODPA as an ally and never criticized your organization in public, even when we have disagreed, but you have been unwilling to rein in your hired staff as he continues to attack us and carry water for Dean Foods.

               

              I will use this example, that we shared with you and the NODPA board, where no substantive action took place:

               

              At the NODPA field days in 2006 and 2007 Cornucopia was viciously attacked by Ed during his formal presentation to the farmers.  In 2007, just after we announced that the USDA, based on our inside sources, would let Aurora off the hook with a one-year probation, and no fine, here is what Ed Maltby had to say, based on numerous reports from farmers who were present (this was in public so I'm sure there are many more witnesses than came forward to share this with us): Ed said (summarized by farmers) that Cornucopia had:

               

              1. Outlived their usefulness
              2. Cried wolf
              3. Meaningless and powerless
              4. Latest PR had no facts behind it, did more harm than good
              5. Make news just to raise money
              6. Can anyone tell me anything they have done beneficial?

               

              The only response I will make is to Ed's point #4.  Shortly after his baseless attack the USDA did indeed let Aurora off the hook and our press release was entirely accurate.  We were hoping by doing the aggressive public relations work that we could shame the USDA into a more appropriate penalty against Aurora .  Sadly, we did not succeed.  But it was not for lack of trying and we are still appealing to Secretary Vilsack, and Deputy Sec. Merrigan, for justice to be done here.

               

              You can all judge whether or not the work we do at The Cornucopia Institute has value for family-scale farmers.  But Henry, allowing your paid staff to attack us in public, repeatedly, we think is entirely inappropriate and we asked you to intervene.

               

              A second incident, which we brought to the NODPA board's attention, but received no response, was Ed's posting, illegally, of a doctored copywritten news story from Bloomberg.  The story was changed “somehow” to associate Cornucopia with Organic Valley .  We traced the changes back to Ed.  But again, the board did not act.

               

              I doubt if many Organic Valley members, who know we release information to them so that they can be empowered to oversee management, think, as Ed has suggested over the years, that somehow we are in cahoots with their CEO (our release last month outlining their bankrolling of the OTA legal brief in defense of Aurora should certainly illustrate our independence).

               

              So this mess could have been solved years ago but you and others at NODPA have continued to back Ed regardless of his behavior.  And when I challenged some of his misinformation on NODPA's (Odairy) list I was banned, silenced.  But of course you have a different explanation for my being silenced.

               

              Now there is an alternative list.  And you and your board, and Ed can continue to operate your private listserv.  For all those who don't like the negative e-mails, and I don't either, maybe you can understand more of why this debate has stretched on so long.

               

              So there you have it.  Am I being disrespectful again by bringing up information that I'm sure you will be less than comfortable with?

               

              Mark

               

              PS: Henry, Ed has also allowed some "fake" postings on the lists over the years attacking folks he hasn't agreed with.  Who are these coming from?

               

              Mr. North, I have no idea who you are, and you have posted vicious attacks in the past.  I don't know if the incomes you posted for the Organic Valley and Dean/Horizon officials are accurate.  But my salary was inflated by you by many tens of thousands of dollars.  Maybe you could appeal to our board of directors and ask for a raise?  I wish that all the expenses that they have reimbursed me for over the years were income as well.  Maybe you will fully identify yourself (so your true identity can be verified) before the next time you make an attack on someone.  Identifying yourself was one of the only requests Bill made of the Odairy list participants.

               

              Mark A. Kastel

              The Cornucopia Institute

              kastel@...

              608-625-2042 Voice

              866-861-2214 Fax

               

               

               

              P.O. Box 126

              Cornucopia, Wisconsin 54827

              www.cornucopia.org

               

               

               


              From: Odairy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Odairy@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Henry Perkins
              Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 9:17 AM
              To: Odairy@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy = doubletalk

               

               

              What Ed has said is correct.He does not rule the Nodpa list “with an iron fist”.He has censored no one without approval of the board,no matter what others have said.

              Mark,keep in mind that one’s perceptions of whether or not your communications have always been “professional”depends a great deal on whether or not you are on the giving or receiving end of these communications. I have found some of yours to me to be civil and reasonable and others to be quite “unprofessional”.I have gotten emails and phone calls from those on the receiving end of some of your “professional” communications that also objected to your level of professionalism.

              You,Mark were excluded from posting because of this and the fact that you were asked repeatedly to follow the guidelines and chose to ignore them,which basicly boiled down to the fact that you were taunting me. The decision to remove your posting privledges  was made before the “logo” issue came up.

              I accept all responsibility for this action,and from now on ,direct all personal attacks to me,as I was the one who directed Ed to remove you.

              Henry Perkins








              On 12/7/09 8:48 AM, "Mark A. Kastel - The Cornucopia Institute" < kastel@cornucopia. org > wrote:


               
               
                 

              Good morning Ed,
               
              Due to the censorship on the NODPA list I have been unable to have an opportunity to post any news articles or provide any balance or commentary to what has been posted on the list you administer. But due to the volunteer efforts of Bill and Lyle (thank you both) the original Odairy list is open to everyone, presumably including me (this is a test and my first attempt).
               
              You have ruled the NODPA list, with the backing of your board, with an iron fist.  You have admitted that my voice has been excluded from the discussions because of considerations that have happened "off the list."  It should be noted however that I adamantly dispute that my communications has ever been less than professional. But, if you don't like what you are hearing you are going to be uncomfortable with Cornucopia's frank honesty.
               
              I was excluded from the Odairy list because of the "logo" issue.  However, since then, other groups have posted logos and you and Lisa even posted two press releases from Cornucopia …. including our logo.  And the system did not crash.
               
              Ed, I was excluded from Odairy because I factually challenged misinformation you were putting out.  Many, on the NODPA list found this censorship repugnant.  
               
              The point that I was cut off was when I pointed out that unlike the information you presented to the organic dairy community, from Dean Foods/Horizon, that the cattle removed from their industrial dairy in Idaho had been taken out of organic production …. the information you put out was patently false.  As we all now know thousands of cows were transferred to New Mexico to their two new factory farms that operate there …..  This at a time when some of Dean/Horizon' s family farms were being eliminated and/or put on quota.
               
              So I don't think there is much confusion in terms of the two different lists.  One is administered by two independent dairy farmers independent of either of NODPA or Cornucopia, or as far as I know any other organizations.  And the other is a private list which makes and enforces its own rules.
               
              If you want to reduce the amount of confusion I would encourage you to put "NODPA" in the header of your messages and rename your list since you have confirmed that Bill is the owner of the name and original Odairy list.
               
              Sincerely yours,
               
              Mark A. Kastel
              Senior Farm Policy Analyst
              The Cornucopia Institute
               

               
               

              Mark A. Kastel
              The Cornucopia Institute
              kastel@cornucopia. org
              608-625-2042 Voice
              866-861-2214
              Fax

               



              P.O. Box 126
              Cornucopia, Wisconsin 54827
              www.cornucopia. org <http://www.cornucop ia.org/>

               


              From: Odairy@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Odairy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ed Maltby
              Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 6:31 AM
              To: Odairy@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: RE: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

                

              Lyle
              It amazes me that you and Mark Kastel continue to spread such lies.
              You have no proof as it has never happened. Slander like that doesn’t hurt me  (those that think that I have the time and the inclination to restrict posts obviously do not know me or my schedule) but it does hurt organic dairy and the ability for NODPA and FOOD Farmers to represent organic dairy farmers.
              The moderators of NODPA, of which there are 3, censor nothing and nobody.
              Are you also accusing Lisa McCrory of censoring posts? She has equal rights as moderator to me. All posts sent to Odairy have always been posted.
              The owners of Odairy, NODPA Board, decided to take away Mark Kastel right to post on Odairy because of numerous complaints about off and on-list harassment and intimidation which were causing folks to stop posting and restricting the exchange of information, and is a few cases making them ill because of his relentless pursuit of his own opinion.
              It has nothing to do with his views and nobody has ever been restricted in saying what they want to.
               
              At times like this it does no benefit to organic dairy families to cause further confusion and division.
              Best wishes
               
               

              Ed Maltby
              30 Keets Rd
              Deerfield, MA 01342

              Tel  413-772-0444
              Fax 866-554-9483
              Cell 413-427-7323
              mailto:emaltby@ comcast.net
               
               


              From: Odairy@yahoogroups. com [mailto:Odairy@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Lyle Edwards
              Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 5:18 AM
              To: Odairy@yahoogroups. com
              Subject: Re: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy

                

              Hi Gwyneth,



              Basically, we reactivated the original Odairy list because the administrator of the NODPA list was censoring people who's opinions he did not like. We as independent farmers felt that we needed a a list that was open to all.



              All are welcome to participate in the discussion on Yahoo Odairy. The reactivated Odairy list has no affiliation with NODPA, Cornucopia, NOFA, etc. Unlike the NODPA list, Yahoo Odairy will be  not moderated. The Odairy name is owned by Bill Casey. He started Odairy so everyone's voices could be heard.



              Lyle Edwards

              dairy farmer

              Westfield, Vermont






              ----- Original Message -----

              From: gwyneth harris <mailto:gmcn@ uninets.net>  

              To: Odairy@yahoogroups. com

              Sent: Sunday, December 06, 2009 11:51 AM

              Subject: [Odairy] Double O'Dairy


                

              OK, so this is an interesting twist to the list(s)... Are they
              connected at all? Or two entirely different lists?

              I would love it if the new-old yahoo could have a different header on
              the e-mails that come in... I know, I know, this list had the name
              first. BUt I'm just talking from a practical standpoint. I don't
              want to end up posting a reply to the wring list by mistake, and if
              I'm following a discussion on one list, I'd like to be able to
              differentiate between the two lists easily and quickly when I go
              through my mailbox...

              Gwyneth Harris
              Unity, ME
              4 cows and growing...



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            • gwyneth harris
              ... -- ... I don t even know which list I m posting to any more. But anyway... We are looking at a time where we will be in transition--possibly for some
              Message 6 of 20 , Dec 7, 2009
              • 0 Attachment

                THE POLITICS OF HATE AND DIVISION = if you do not agree with someone's perspective, and you cannot win based on a healthy and honest debate, it is effective to attack them personally.


                --
                Well Mark, You sure have that down!  Why not take a day off from your crusade and READ your own posts....  LIsa P., Hue, thanks for speaking up.  I know that all of us who find you distasteful, Mark, are not blindered by corporate greed, insensitive or unaware of the plight of family farms, or even just stupid.

                I don't even know which list I'm posting to any more.

                But anyway...

                We are looking at a time where we will be in transition--possibly for some time--and would like to use our cows as nurse cows to raise replacements...  not just in addition to, but in place of, milking them.

                I'd be interested in feedback on what all the possible issues are...

                Thanks,

                Gwyneth
                Unity, ME
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