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Sub 9 KHz

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  • Rickfordg
    Hi G and all,   I m one step closer to putting a (better) signal on the air. Today I ran 2 tests. This time I did not use my VLF3 receiver and just connected
    Message 1 of 14 , Oct 30, 2013
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      Hi G and all,
       
      I'm one step closer to putting a (better) signal on the air. Today I ran 2 tests. This time I did not use my VLF3 receiver and just connected my multi turn loop antenna into the mic jack on my didital recorder. After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to copy my Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross talk amoung the coax or audio cables in the ham shack and was truley radiating a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the shack and 200 from the antenna.
       
      At this point most of my TX energy is being disipated in the coax that I used to match my audio Amp to the antenna. The antenna is nothing more than a full wave loop @ 14 MHz. It's going to take a bit of work to build a better antenna and feed line.
       
      More later,
       
      Rich
      WD4RBX
    • Andy - KU4XR
      On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg wrote: After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to copy my Dreamers band signal.
      Message 2 of 14 , Oct 30, 2013
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        On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:


        After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to copy my
        Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross talk
        amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley radiating
        a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the shack
        and 200 from the antenna.

        Rich
        WD4RBX
        __________________________________________________________________

        Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
        has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and received ?
        No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it, and
        one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not heard any more..

        Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise receive
        setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at reception..

        4 Hours is a Looooooong time..

        73: Andy - KU4XR
      • Bob Raide
        Andy; Are you aware of Stefan s experiments? He was successful at over 1000KM as I recall and has documented all he did-shows his coils kite ant-etc. Try his
        Message 3 of 14 , Oct 30, 2013
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          Andy;
          Are you aware of Stefan's experiments?  He was successful at over 1000KM as I recall and has documented all he did-shows his coils kite ant-etc.  Try his web site.  Also, Jay's neighbor is doing some VLF audio band work and Jay is involved-Bob
           

          To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
          From: ku4xr@...
          Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:32:36 -0700
          Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz

           
          On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:

          After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to copy my
          Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross talk
          amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley radiating
          a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the shack
          and 200 from the antenna.

          Rich
          WD4RBX
          __________________________________________________________

          Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
          has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and received ?
          No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it, and
          one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not heard any more..

          Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise receive
          setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at reception..

          4 Hours is a Looooooong time..

          73: Andy - KU4XR


        • Rickfordg
          Hi G and all,   My multi turn ( 2 meter diameter) loop works OK for RX connected to the Mic input of my digital recorder. I have added a screen shot of my
          Message 4 of 14 , Oct 30, 2013
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            Hi G and all,
             
            My multi turn ( 2 meter diameter) loop works OK for RX connected to the Mic input of my digital recorder. I have added a screen shot of my OPERA signal to my website. Below is a direct link to the page with the screen shot.
             
            Rich
             
          • Andy - KU4XR
            Hi Bob: Yes I am aware of Stefans attempts, but did not know he had that kind of sucess.. And Jay s neighbor is the guy I referred to who built the loading
            Message 5 of 14 , Oct 30, 2013
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              Hi Bob: Yes I am aware of Stefans attempts, but did not know he had that kind
              of sucess.. And Jay's neighbor is the guy I referred to who built the loading
              coil for 8 KHz.. In my un-experienced way of thinking, the best antenna to
              attempt reception at such frequencies would be the longest B.O.G. that one
              could manage.. I may be off base there, BUT; I have never been there either.. hi -hi
              BTW: got lots of front-end busting decodes from you lately on 136 KHz..
              When are you going to try for 73 KHz ?? I won't be able to resist...hi -hi

              73: Andy - KU4XR
              --------------------------------------------
              On Wed, 10/30/13, Bob Raide <rjraide@...> wrote:

              Subject: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
              To: "O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com" <o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com>
              Date: Wednesday, October 30, 2013, 4:38 PM

              Andy;
              Are you aware of Stefan's experiments?  He was
              successful at over 1000KM as I recall and has
              documented all he did-shows his coils kite ant-etc. 
              Try his web site.  Also, Jay's neighbor is doing
              some VLF audio band work and Jay is involved-Bob
               
            • Bob Raide
              Andy; Not much interest for 73 OPDS. Markus of course but rest of receive people like QRSS 60 mode. QRSS 60 has done very well there. Will be going back to
              Message 6 of 14 , Oct 30, 2013
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                Andy;
                Not much interest for 73 OPDS.  Markus of course but rest of receive people like QRSS 60 mode.  QRSS 60 has done very well there.
                Will be going back to 73 in couple days with QRSS 60 and still try for some OPDS interest there.
                The UK and Europeans that are tuned up there didn't want to come to 137 either.  Dex has been on every night and they are all still on 73.  That is a good band-Bob
                 

                To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                From: ku4xr@...
                Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2013 13:45:14 -0700
                Subject: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz

                 
                Hi Bob: Yes I am aware of Stefans attempts, but did not know he had that kind
                of sucess.. And Jay's neighbor is the guy I referred to who built the loading
                coil for 8 KHz.. In my un-experienced way of thinking, the best antenna to
                attempt reception at such frequencies would be the longest B.O.G. that one
                could manage.. I may be off base there, BUT; I have never been there either.. hi -hi
                BTW: got lots of front-end busting decodes from you lately on 136 KHz..
                When are you going to try for 73 KHz ?? I won't be able to resist...hi -hi

                73: Andy - KU4XR
                --------------------------------------------
                On Wed, 10/30/13, Bob Raide <rjraide@...> wrote:

                Subject: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                To: "O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com" <o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com>
                Date: Wednesday, October 30, 2013, 4:38 PM

                Andy;
                Are you aware of Stefan's experiments?  He was
                successful at over 1000KM as I recall and has
                documented all he did-shows his coils kite ant-etc. 
                Try his web site.  Also, Jay's neighbor is doing
                some VLF audio band work and Jay is involved-Bob
                 


              • Rickfordg
                Hi Andy and all,   I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES house that s 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX
                Message 7 of 14 , Oct 31, 2013
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                  Hi Andy and all,
                   
                  I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I tested yesterday with me.
                   
                  It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna was fed directly to my sound card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                   
                  Rich

                  From: Andy - KU4XR <ku4xr@...>
                  To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                  Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                   
                  On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:

                  After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to copy my
                  Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross talk
                  amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley radiating
                  a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the shack
                  and 200 from the antenna.

                  Rich
                  WD4RBX
                  __________________________________________________________

                  Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                  has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and received ?
                  No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it, and
                  one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not heard any more..

                  Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise receive
                  setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at reception..

                  4 Hours is a Looooooong time..

                  73: Andy - KU4XR

                • siegfried jackstien
                  6 miles??? Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground???
                  Message 8 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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                    6 miles???

                    Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it
                    coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground???

                    Even if you battery power tx and rx ... it coukd couple in anything metallic
                    ... even the fences around your property ... etc.

                    ... I was thinking of using a big fence as antenna (3 turn loop and around
                    2000 feet each turn ... maybe 2 of them)

                    Dg9bfc

                    Sigi



                    > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                    > Von: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com [mailto:O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com] Im
                    > Auftrag von Rickfordg
                    > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2013 13:33
                    > An: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                    > Betreff: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Andy and all,
                    >
                    > I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES
                    > house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I
                    > tested yesterday with me.
                    >
                    > It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many
                    > years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the
                    > Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna
                    > was fed directly to my sound card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the
                    > receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                    >
                    > Rich
                    >
                    > From: Andy - KU4XR <ku4xr@...>
                    > To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                    > Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                    >
                    >
                    > On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to
                    > copy my
                    > Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross
                    > talk
                    > amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley radiating
                    > a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the
                    > shack
                    > and 200 from the antenna.
                    >
                    > Rich
                    > WD4RBX
                    > __________________________________________________________
                    >
                    > Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                    > has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and
                    > received ?
                    > No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it,
                    > and
                    > one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not
                    > heard any more..
                    >
                    > Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise
                    > receive
                    > setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at
                    > reception..
                    >
                    > 4 Hours is a Looooooong time..
                    >
                    > 73: Andy - KU4XR
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Rickfordg
                    Hi Sig,    First the test was a failure. No signal heard at 6 miles well at least none that I could see on the waterfall . I plan to try another test some
                    Message 9 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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                      Hi Sig,
                       
                       First the test was a failure. No signal heard at 6 miles well at least none that I could see on the waterfall . I plan to try another test some time Monday with better RX antenna and a laptop computer.
                       
                      From what I understand the weak signal I'm TXing should be over the air. I have plans to put up a multi turn loop but haven't started the project yet.
                       
                      I would like to hear about you complete setup for TXing but maybe we should take the conversation off of the OPERA list. If you wish you can Email me direct at  wd4rbx@...
                       
                      Rich

                      From: siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...>
                      To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:14 AM
                      Subject: AW: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                       
                      6 miles???

                      Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it
                      coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground???

                      Even if you battery power tx and rx ... it coukd couple in anything metallic
                      ... even the fences around your property ... etc.

                      ... I was thinking of using a big fence as antenna (3 turn loop and around
                      2000 feet each turn ... maybe 2 of them)

                      Dg9bfc

                      Sigi

                      > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                      > Von: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com [mailto:O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com]
                      class=mark>Im
                      > Auftrag von Rickfordg
                      > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2013 13:33
                      > An: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                      > Betreff: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Andy and all,
                      >
                      > I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES
                      > house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I
                      > tested yesterday with me.
                      >
                      > It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many
                      > years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the
                      > Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna
                      > was fed directly to my sound
                      card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the
                      > receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                      >
                      > Rich
                      >
                      > From: Andy - KU4XR <ku4xr@...>
                      > To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                      > Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                      >
                      >
                      > On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to
                      > copy my
                      > Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross
                      > talk
                      > amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley
                      radiating
                      > a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the
                      > shack
                      > and 200 from the antenna.
                      >
                      > Rich
                      > WD4RBX
                      > __________________________________________________________
                      >
                      > Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                      > has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and
                      > received ?
                      > No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it,
                      > and
                      > one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not
                      > heard any more..
                      >
                      > Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise
                      > receive
                      > setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at
                      > reception..
                      >
                      > 4 Hours is a Looooooong time..
                      >
                      > 73: Andy - KU4XR
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

                    • graham787
                      Rich, All the dx worked on 8K in EU has been by the use of balloon or kite supported wire Ae s , with loading coils the size of 40 gallon
                      Message 10 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
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                        Rich,


                        All  the  'dx' worked  on 8K  in EU has  been by the  use of  balloon or  kite   supported  wire  Ae's , with loading  coils  the  size of  40 gallon  drums , can  use  the  ground  as  well  , with  wide  spaced  rods


                        73-G,



                        ---In o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com, <wd4rbx@...> wrote:

                        Hi Sig,
                         
                         First the test was a failure. No signal heard at 6 miles well at least none that I could see on the waterfall . I plan to try another test some time Monday with better RX antenna and a laptop computer.
                         
                        From what I understand the weak signal I'm TXing should be over the air. I have plans to put up a multi turn loop but haven't started the project yet.
                         
                        I would like to hear about you complete setup for TXing but maybe we should take the conversation off of the OPERA list. If you wish you can Email me direct at  wd4rbx@...
                         
                        Rich

                        From: siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...>
                        To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:14 AM
                        Subject: AW: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                         
                        6 miles???

                        Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it
                        coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground???

                        Even if you battery power tx and rx ... it coukd couple in anything metallic
                        ... even the fences around your property ... etc.

                        ... I was thinking of using a big fence as antenna (3 turn loop and around
                        2000 feet each turn ... maybe 2 of them)

                        Dg9bfc

                        Sigi

                        > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                        > Von: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com [mailto:O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com]
                        class=mark>Im
                        > Auftrag von Rickfordg
                        > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2013 13:33
                        > An: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                        > Betreff: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Hi Andy and all,
                        >
                        > I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES
                        > house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I
                        > tested yesterday with me.
                        >
                        > It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many
                        > years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the
                        > Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna
                        > was fed directly to my sound
                        card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the
                        > receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                        >
                        > Rich
                        >
                        > From: Andy - KU4XR <ku4xr@...>
                        > To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                        > Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                        >
                        >
                        > On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to
                        > copy my
                        > Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross
                        > talk
                        > amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley
                        radiating
                        > a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the
                        > shack
                        > and 200 from the antenna.
                        >
                        > Rich
                        > WD4RBX
                        > __________________________________________________________
                        >
                        > Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                        > has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and
                        > received ?
                        > No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it,
                        > and
                        > one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not
                        > heard any more..
                        >
                        > Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise
                        > receive
                        > setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at
                        > reception..
                        >
                        > 4 Hours is a Looooooong time..
                        >
                        > 73: Andy - KU4XR
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >

                      • Rickfordg
                        Hi G,   If you remember a wile back you and others were talking about using off the shelf audio equipment to TX an 8KHz signal. This is the rout I decided to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi G,
                           
                          If you remember a wile back you and others were talking about using off the shelf audio equipment to TX an 8KHz signal. This is the rout I decided to take. I don't think a loading coil will help if I wrong PLS someone let me know. What I want to try is build an antenna and feedline that presents the 4 Ohm (at DC) load that the PA wants for full power out. I'm thinking that a loop antenna will work. What I need to come up with is a feel line other then RG6. I want the feed line to have low resistance at 150 feet such as 10 or 12 Ga wire and put up as much 16 Ga electric fence Aluminum wire to make the loop and feed line present 4 Ohms to the amp. Will this work? Hell if I know...HI HI. Is it fun to try? You Bet...!
                           
                          I believe that it could be possible to roll your own 1:1 audio transformer and use the secondary to feed a flying antenna.
                           
                          I'm really interested in hearing from Sig. I would like to hear more about his plans.
                           
                          Rich

                          From: "g0nbd@..." <g0nbd@...>
                          To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 2:26 PM
                          Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] RE: Sub 9 KHz
                           
                          Rich,

                          All  the  'dx' worked  on 8K  in EU has  been by the  use of  balloon or  kite   supported  wire  Ae's , with loading  coils  the  size of  40 gallon  drums , can  use  the  ground  as  well  , with  wide  spaced  rods

                          73-G,
                          ---In o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com, <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                          Hi Sig,
                           
                           First the test was a failure. No signal heard at 6 miles well at least none that I could see on the waterfall . I plan to try another test some time Monday with better RX antenna and a laptop computer.
                           
                          From what I understand the weak signal I'm TXing should be over the air. I have plans to put up a multi turn loop but haven't started the project yet.
                           
                          I would like to hear about you complete setup for TXing but maybe we should take the conversation off of the OPERA list. If you wish you can Email me direct at  wd4rbx@...
                           
                          Rich

                          From: siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...>
                          To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:14 AM
                          Subject: AW: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                           
                          6 miles???Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground??? Even if you battery power tx and rx ... it coukd couple in anything metallic ... even the fences around your property ... etc. ... I was thinking of using a big fence as antenna (3 turn loop and around 2000 feet each turn ... maybe 2 of them)Dg9bfcSigi
                          > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                          > Von: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com [mailto:O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com]
                          class=mark>Im
                          > Auftrag von Rickfordg
                          > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2013 13:33
                          > An: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          > Betreff: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Andy and all,
                          >
                          > I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES
                          > house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I
                          > tested yesterday with me.
                          >
                          > It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many
                          > years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the
                          > Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna
                          > was fed directly to my sound
                          card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the
                          > receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                          >
                          > Rich
                          >
                          > From: Andy - KU4XR <ku4xr@...>
                          > To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                          >
                          >
                          > On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to
                          > copy my
                          > Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross
                          > talk
                          > amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley
                          radiating
                          > a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the
                          > shack
                          > and 200 from the antenna.
                          >
                          > Rich
                          > WD4RBX
                          > __________________________________________________________
                          >
                          > Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                          > has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and
                          > received ?
                          > No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it,
                          > and
                          > one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not
                          > heard any more..
                          >
                          > Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise
                          > receive
                          > setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at
                          > reception..
                          >
                          > 4 Hours is a Looooooong time..
                          >
                          > 73: Andy - KU4XR
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                        • Gary - G4WGT
                          Hi Rich, I have attached 2 files which I have based 8kHz matching on & seem to work OK for commercial audio amps. I used a valve guitar amp with good results
                          Message 12 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
                          Hi Rich,

                          I have attached 2 files which I have based 8kHz matching on & seem to work OK for commercial audio amps. I used a valve guitar amp with good results into dummy load.

                          The example is used by a U.S ham for LF but it should give you some help.

                          73, Gary - G4WGT.


                          On 03/11/2013 15:43, Rickfordg wrote:
                           
                          Hi G,
                           
                          If you remember a wile back you and others were talking about using off the shelf audio equipment to TX an 8KHz signal. This is the rout I decided to take. I don't think a loading coil will help if I wrong PLS someone let me know. What I want to try is build an antenna and feedline that presents the 4 Ohm (at DC) load that the PA wants for full power out. I'm thinking that a loop antenna will work. What I need to come up with is a feel line other then RG6. I want the feed line to have low resistance at 150 feet such as 10 or 12 Ga wire and put up as much 16 Ga electric fence Aluminum wire to make the loop and feed line present 4 Ohms to the amp. Will this work? Hell if I know...HI HI. Is it fun to try? You Bet...!
                           
                          I believe that it could be possible to roll your own 1:1 audio transformer and use the secondary to feed a flying antenna.
                           
                          I'm really interested in hearing from Sig. I would like to hear more about his plans.
                           
                          Rich

                          From: "g0nbd@..." <g0nbd@...>
                          To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 2:26 PM
                          Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] RE: Sub 9 KHz
                           
                          Rich,

                          All  the  'dx' worked  on 8K  in EU has  been by the  use of  balloon or  kite   supported  wire  Ae's , with loading  coils  the  size of  40 gallon  drums , can  use  the  ground  as  well  , with  wide  spaced  rods

                          73-G,
                          ---In o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com, <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                          Hi Sig,
                           
                           First the test was a failure. No signal heard at 6 miles well at least none that I could see on the waterfall . I plan to try another test some time Monday with better RX antenna and a laptop computer.
                           
                          From what I understand the weak signal I'm TXing should be over the air. I have plans to put up a multi turn loop but haven't started the project yet.
                           
                          I would like to hear about you complete setup for TXing but maybe we should take the conversation off of the OPERA list. If you wish you can Email me direct at  wd4rbx@...
                           
                          Rich

                          From: siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...>
                          To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:14 AM
                          Subject: AW: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                           
                          6 miles???Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground??? Even if you battery power tx and rx ... it coukd couple in anything metallic ... even the fences around your property ... etc. ... I was thinking of using a big fence as antenna (3 turn loop and around 2000 feet each turn ... maybe 2 of them)Dg9bfcSigi
                          > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                          > Von: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com [mailto:O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com]
                          class=mark>Im
                          > Auftrag von Rickfordg
                          > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2013 13:33
                          > An: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          > Betreff: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi Andy and all,
                          >
                          > I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES
                          > house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I
                          > tested yesterday with me.
                          >
                          > It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many
                          > years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the
                          > Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna
                          > was fed directly to my sound
                          card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the
                          > receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                          >
                          > Rich
                          >
                          > From: Andy - KU4XR <ku4xr@...>
                          > To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                          > Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                          >
                          >
                          > On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to
                          > copy my
                          > Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross
                          > talk
                          > amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley
                          radiating
                          > a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the
                          > shack
                          > and 200 from the antenna.
                          >
                          > Rich
                          > WD4RBX
                          > __________________________________________________________
                          >
                          > Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                          > has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and
                          > received ?
                          > No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it,
                          > and
                          > one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not
                          > heard any more..
                          >
                          > Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise
                          > receive
                          > setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at
                          > reception..
                          >
                          > 4 Hours is a Looooooong time..
                          >
                          > 73: Andy - KU4XR
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          No virus found in this message.
                          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                          Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3615/6785 - Release Date: 10/27/13


                        • graham787
                          Word back from dk7fc , is he used a separate primary coil on this set up , quite a few volts on the top I would think ! 73-G,
                          Message 13 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment

                            Word  back  from  dk7fc , is he  used  a  separate  primary coil   on this   set up , quite a  few  volts  on the  top  I would  think !


                            73-G,



                            https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/VLF/300m%20VLF%20kite%20vertical%20by%20DK7FC.jpg



                            ---In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, <o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Hi Rich,

                            I have attached 2 files which I have based 8kHz matching on & seem to work OK for commercial audio amps. I used a valve guitar amp with good results into dummy load.

                            The example is used by a U.S ham for LF but it should give you some help.

                            73, Gary - G4WGT.


                            On 03/11/2013 15:43, Rickfordg wrote:
                             
                            Hi G,
                             
                            If you remember a wile back you and others were talking about using off the shelf audio equipment to TX an 8KHz signal. This is the rout I decided to take. I don't think a loading coil will help if I wrong PLS someone let me know. What I want to try is build an antenna and feedline that presents the 4 Ohm (at DC) load that the PA wants for full power out. I'm thinking that a loop antenna will work. What I need to come up with is a feel line other then RG6. I want the feed line to have low resistance at 150 feet such as 10 or 12 Ga wire and put up as much 16 Ga electric fence Aluminum wire to make the loop and feed line present 4 Ohms to the amp. Will this work? Hell if I know...HI HI. Is it fun to try? You Bet...!
                             
                            I believe that it could be possible to roll your own 1:1 audio transformer and use the secondary to feed a flying antenna.
                             
                            I'm really interested in hearing from Sig. I would like to hear more about his plans.
                             
                            Rich

                            From: "g0nbd@..." <g0nbd@...>
                            To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 2:26 PM
                            Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] RE: Sub 9 KHz
                             
                            Rich,

                            All  the  'dx' worked  on 8K  in EU has  been by the  use of  balloon or  kite   supported  wire  Ae's , with loading  coils  the  size of  40 gallon  drums , can  use  the  ground  as  well  , with  wide  spaced  rods

                            73-G,
                            ---In o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com, <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                            Hi Sig,
                             
                             First the test was a failure. No signal heard at 6 miles well at least none that I could see on the waterfall . I plan to try another test some time Monday with better RX antenna and a laptop computer.
                             
                            From what I understand the weak signal I'm TXing should be over the air. I have plans to put up a multi turn loop but haven't started the project yet.
                             
                            I would like to hear about you complete setup for TXing but maybe we should take the conversation off of the OPERA list. If you wish you can Email me direct at  wd4rbx@...
                             
                            Rich

                            From: siegfried jackstien <siegfried.jackstien@...>
                            To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:14 AM
                            Subject: AW: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                             
                            6 miles???Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground??? Even if you battery power tx and rx ... it coukd couple in anything metallic ... even the fences around your property ... etc. ... I was thinking of using a big fence as antenna (3 turn loop and around 2000 feet each turn ... maybe 2 of them)Dg9bfcSigi
                            > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                            > Von: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com [mailto:O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com]
                            class=mark>Im
                            > Auftrag von Rickfordg
                            > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2013 13:33
                            > An: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                            > Betreff: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi Andy and all,
                            >
                            > I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES
                            > house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I
                            > tested yesterday with me.
                            >
                            > It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many
                            > years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the
                            > Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna
                            > was fed directly to my sound
                            card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the
                            > receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                            >
                            > Rich
                            >
                            > From: Andy - KU4XR <ku4xr@...>
                            > To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                            > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                            > Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                            >
                            >
                            > On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to
                            > copy my
                            > Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross
                            > talk
                            > amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley
                            radiating
                            > a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the
                            > shack
                            > and 200 from the antenna.
                            >
                            > Rich
                            > WD4RBX
                            > __________________________________________________________
                            >
                            > Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                            > has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and
                            > received ?
                            > No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it,
                            > and
                            > one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not
                            > heard any more..
                            >
                            > Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise
                            > receive
                            > setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at
                            > reception..
                            >
                            > 4 Hours is a Looooooong time..
                            >
                            > 73: Andy - KU4XR
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            No virus found in this message.
                            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                            Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3615/6785 - Release Date: 10/27/13


                          • Rickfordg
                            Hi Gary,   TNX for the info. I will study it and see what I can learn.   Rich WD4RBX From: Gary - G4WGT To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                            Message 14 of 14 , Nov 3, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Gary,
                               
                              TNX for the info. I will study it and see what I can learn.
                               
                              Rich
                              WD4RBX

                              From: Gary - G4WGT <g4wgt@...>
                              To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 4:40 PM
                              Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] RE: Sub 9 KHz [1 Attachment]
                               
                              Hi Rich, I have attached 2 files which I have based 8kHz matching on & seem to work OK for commercial audio amps. I used a valve guitar amp with good results into dummy load. The example is used by a U.S ham for LF but it should give you some help. 73, Gary - G4WGT. On 03/11/2013 15:43, Rickfordg wrote:
                               
                              Hi G,
                               
                              If you remember a wile back you and others were talking about using off the shelf audio equipment to TX an 8KHz signal. This is the rout I decided to take. I don't think a loading coil will help if I wrong PLS someone let me know. What I want to try is build an antenna and feedline that presents the 4 Ohm (at DC) load that the PA wants for full power out. I'm thinking that a loop antenna will work. What I need to come up with is a feel line other then RG6. I want the feed line to have low resistance at 150 feet such as 10 or 12 Ga wire and put up as much 16 Ga electric fence Aluminum wire to make the loop and feed line present 4 Ohms to the amp. Will this work? Hell if I know...HI HI. Is it fun to try? You Bet...!
                               
                              I believe that it could be possible to roll your own 1:1 audio transformer and use the secondary to feed a flying antenna.
                               
                              I'm really interested in hearing from Sig. I would like to hear more about his plans.
                               
                              Rich

                              From: mailto:g0nbd@... mailto:g0nbd@...
                              To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 2:26 PM
                              Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] RE: Sub 9 KHz
                               
                              Rich,

                              All  the  'dx' worked  on 8K  in EU has  been by the  use of  balloon or  kite   supported  wire  Ae's , with loading  coils  the  size of  40 gallon  drums , can  use  the  ground  as  well  , with  wide  spaced  rods

                              73-G,
                              ---In o_p_e_r_a_@yahoogroups.com, mailto:wd4rbx@... wrote:
                              Hi Sig,
                               
                               First the test was a failure. No signal heard at 6 miles well at least none that I could see on the waterfall . I plan to try another test some time Monday with better RX antenna and a laptop computer.
                               
                              From what I understand the weak signal I'm TXing should be over the air. I have plans to put up a multi turn loop but haven't started the project yet.
                               
                              I would like to hear about you complete setup for TXing but maybe we should take the conversation off of the OPERA list. If you wish you can Email me direct at  wd4rbx@...
                               
                              Rich

                              From: siegfried jackstien mailto:siegfried.jackstien@...
                              To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2013 9:14 AM
                              Subject: AW: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                               
                              6 miles???Hmmm now the question is ... how does 9 kc signal travel that way??? Is it coupling in the power lines?? Through the air??? Or through ground??? Even if you battery power tx and rx ... it coukd couple in anything metallic ... even the fences around your property ... etc. ... I was thinking of using a big fence as antenna (3 turn loop and around 2000 feet each turn ... maybe 2 of them)Dg9bfcSigi
                              > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
                              > Von: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com [mailto:O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com]
                              class=mark>Im
                              > Auftrag von Rickfordg
                              > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 31. Oktober 2013 13:33
                              > An: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                              > Betreff: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Hi Andy and all,
                              >
                              > I will be running another test this morning. I have to go over to W4LES
                              > house that's 6 miles as the crow flies. I will be taking my RX setup I
                              > tested yesterday with me.
                              >
                              > It's amazing what can be used for a RX antenna at these frequencies. Many
                              > years a go I used a pine tree and well placed ground rod to RX one of the
                              > Russian Alphas. I know it sounds crazy but it works. The pine tree antenna
                              > was fed directly to my sound
                              card and I used Spectrum Lab software for the
                              > receiver. The same thing applies here except use OPERA.
                              >
                              > Rich
                              >
                              > From: Andy - KU4XR mailto:ku4xr@...
                              > To: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2013 8:32 PM
                              > Subject: Re: [O_P_E_R_A_] Sub 9 KHz
                              >
                              >
                              > On Wed, 10/30/13, Rickfordg mailto:wd4rbx@... wrote:
                              >
                              > After finding the proper orentation for the loop antenna I was able to
                              > copy my
                              > Dreamers band signal. I did this just to be sure I was not RXing cross
                              > talk
                              > amoung the coax or audio cables in the hamshack and was truley
                              radiating
                              > a signal. The loop antenna and recorder were placed 100 feet from the
                              > shack
                              > and 200 from the antenna.
                              >
                              > Rich
                              > WD4RBX
                              > __________________________________________________________
                              >
                              > Question for those who might know: From the experiments done so far; what
                              > has been the farthest an 8 KHz signal has been aurally radiated, and
                              > received ?
                              > No real US activity has been done that I am aware of.. Some talk about it,
                              > and
                              > one operator did go so far as to build a loading coil, but I have not
                              > heard any more..
                              >
                              > Rich is 104 miles / 167 Km from me, and even if I had the lowest noise
                              > receive
                              > setup in the world; ..... well, let's just say that I have my doubts at
                              > reception..
                              >
                              > 4 Hours is a Looooooong time..
                              >
                              > 73: Andy - KU4XR
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              No virus found in this message.
                              Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com/
                              Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3615/6785 - Release Date: 10/27/13
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