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Re: WANTED 8KHz OP4H OPERA TESTER'S (Mix ~1000Hz with 9 KHz ?)

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  • p.knol
    Hello Graham, I think that must be it. Intermodulation... Now testing LOCALY with notebook PC and a Loop antenna at the LS output. The RX computer is connected
    Message 1 of 25 , May 1, 2012
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      Hello Graham,
      I think that must be it. Intermodulation...

      Now testing LOCALY with notebook PC and a Loop antenna at the LS output. The RX computer is connected to the PA3RDT Mini Whip antenna
      in the backyard.

      Some comments:
      1)Perhaps a idea to slow down the waterfall, zoom it at 9 KHz and/or let is scroll horyzontal ?

      I did degrease my TX signal level until the trace was 'just' visible in the OPERA spectrum. I run Spectrum Lab parallel at the RX PC, but there is the transmitted OPERA signal almost overloading-bright in the Spectrum Lab Spectogram.


      2)When I increase audio input till it reach about 10 / 11 o'clock at the VU indicator (33% ?) it is already overmodulated. I see intermodulation signals arise at 33% level. I did adjust input till signal was best visible in spectrum, then level indicator is most of the time in the yellow section at 9 o'clock with level -24dB. The VU meter indicator is very servous and often jumps from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock. CPU use is 14% here at my ACER Extensa 5235 notebook.

      That's it for now. Results take some time :-)

      Peter, PA1SDB
      www.qsl.net/pa1sdb






      --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@...> wrote:
      >
      > Ok , the waterfall shows only 8 to 11 Khz, But you say you are using a microphone ? I think you are seeing some inter modulation and possibly harmonics from the whistle .by default the waterfall is showing very low signal levels .. so these hf products may be quite low?
      >
      > Good luck with the monitoring, if you know any local stations testing with 100% carrier, see if they will add the OP4H modulation , if they are not Op users normally !
      >
      > Tnx -G.
      >
      > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" <cyberknol@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hello Graham. Interesting. I'm a 8 KHz listener for one month or so:
      > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
      > > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
      > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb> Just wondering why the audio spectrum (~1000
      > > Khz ) becomes mixed with 9 Khz in the waterfall spectogram. Take a
      > > look here.... <--- <http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb/OPERA_8Khz.jpg> Above
      > > you see a 9010 Hz carrier generated by Spectrum lab, and me whistle
      > > around "1500 Hertz. Both recorded via the mike input at the notebook and
      > > become visible in the waterfall. Totaly at top (2mm), I did hit the
      > > "PrtSc + Alt" buttons :-) Best 73's, Peter - PA1SDB
      > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
      > > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
      > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb>
      > >
      >
    • paulwijnand
      Yes indeed Graham, My home build LF/MF/HF/VHF transceiver can TX from about 40 Khz to 700 KHz for the LF/MF part with 3 sets of lowpass filters for 73, 136 and
      Message 2 of 25 , May 1, 2012
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        Yes indeed Graham,

        My home build LF/MF/HF/VHF transceiver can TX from about 40 Khz to 700 KHz for the LF/MF part with 3 sets of lowpass filters for 73, 136 and 500 kHz and the RX is usable down to about 4 kHz in USB mode.
        Antenna however is the LF1010 which is usable a bit at 9 Khz and the MiniWhip from pa0rdt which I have not connected yet, due to other hamradio work hi.

        Yes there are for shortwave listeners recievers around which can do the 9 Khz and perhaps a lot lower.
        Like the AOR7030(+), which is used by many SW listeners. Probably the SDR receivers and transceivers can go also very low.

        Furthermore there are also converters to convert the band to 10 MHz.

        So best would be to have also the option to feed the Op4H with the normal SSB audio for RX, which make the numbers of possible listeners bigger.


        Yes about the Op4H SDR RX/TX :

        This is very nice!

        Will see how I get that running on RX soon.
        What would be the right way to secure the soundcard from statics and strange currents and so from the antenna ?.

        73

        Paul, pa0ocd




        --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@...> wrote:
        >
        > Paul,
        >
        > Do you mean , you are using a conventional RX for 8Khz reception , so would have a audio o/p in the audio ssb range ?
        >
        > That was not anticipated , as the sound card will function directly at 8Khz so the RX function is centered on the 8K band, to date, all the testing has utilized sound-card based SDR tx / rx
        >
        > You say 'many others' is this a wide spread problem ?
        >
        > Tnx -G.
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "paulwijnand" <paulwijnand@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hello Graham,
        > >
        > > Is it possible to have for OP4H for RX, also the normal audio input for the soundcard??
        > >
        > > In that way I can use, like many others, my normal SSB Receiver for 9 KHz.
        > >
        > > 73
        > >
        > >
        > > Paul, pa0ocd
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > WANTED 8KHz OP4H OPERA TESTER'S
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Dreaming of sending data ?
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > After testing , the Dreamer's Band 8KHz version of the
        > > > Opera Beacon system is ready for AIR testing (OR) GROUND
        > > > testing. The Opera beacon tx time has been extended to 4 hours
        > > > to give maximum sensitivity , while maintaining transmit times in
        > > > keeping with the 8K activity at the moment
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > At approximately 50 % duty cycle , the system will transmit 2
        > > > hours of carrier in every 4, so should reduce the electricity bill
        > > > !, while sending the full call sign , as in the LF>HF versions ,
        > > > the decode criteria remains at approx randomly 50% of the data
        > > > during the Tx time required to achieve a decode.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Decode sensitivity is estimated to be approx -47 dB , but this
        > > > is based on the sim-path calibration and may extend lower in actual
        > > > use.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > In tests , a signal , modulated by the Opera on/off keying , level
        > > > reduced to 'normal off air' was demonstrated to leave a trace on
        > > > `Spec Lab' so station's using Opera will also show as
        > > > per normal on the web based grabbers etc, with the additional
        > > > possibility of Opera decodes.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > As in the LF>HF versions , Opera utilises the PC sound card for
        > > > both Tx and Rx and requires NO high stability oscillators or time
        > > > synchronisation , all testing being conducted with normal
        > > > soundcards, mostly with local Tx and Rx using very small Ae's
        > > > over short MK1 back garden test ranges.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Users operating at 8Khz will show on the psk-reporting map as band
        > > > `unknown', both Tx and Rx stations are included in the
        > > > display to ensure maximum visability.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Transmit Keying
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Tx keying is provided by way of a direct audio drive from the
        > > > sound card or by way of on/off keying by the com-port ptt key
        > > > output from the software. An additional com port may be addressed to
        > > > perform station Tx/Rx functions at change over. Due to the longer time
        > > > scales, the switching times of heaver 'power' relays will not
        > > > affect system performance, simplifying switching if need be.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Rx requirements
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Receive is facilitated by the direct input to the sound card at the
        > > > 8Khz operating frequency , no filtering or pre processing is
        > > > required, however, the receiver is of fixed bandwidth so if using
        > > > external oscillator , its important to ensure the signal falls
        > > > within the bass band.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Compatibility ,
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Opera is designed to operate with all `new' versions of
        > > > window's and is compatible with running multiple sessions of
        > > > Spec-Lab and Opera on the same PC
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Function
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > The OP4H system , will provide the same data as the high frequency
        > > > variants , s/n reporting via the web or local s/n copy if not
        > > > web linked. The full call sign is transmitted , so the system
        > > > may be classed as a data mode .
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > If there are any questions etc ,pls contact myself Graham G0NBD
        > > > or Gary G4WGT ,
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • graham787
        Yes , Thats true, but the added noise from a conventional receiver ,adds to the overall system noise and will prevent the decoding of low level signals
        Message 3 of 25 , May 2, 2012
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          Yes , Thats true, but the added noise from a conventional receiver ,adds to the overall system noise and will prevent the decoding of low level signals .. the levels at 9Khz are very low.

          Local reception with a simple is possible , but during tests last year, work by Jim Moritz, in producing low noise pre amps and compact arrays for receiving on the 9Khz band added greatly to the effectiveness of the receive stations and can be viewed at :-

          http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/9khz.html

          Roger G3XBM also has a simple loop and pre-amp cct for 9Khz , shown on his web site along with M0BMU designs.

          http://g3xbm-qrp.blogspot.co.uk/2010_03_01_archive.html

          73 -G..



          --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "paulwijnand" <paulwijnand@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yes indeed Graham,
          >
          > My home build LF/MF/HF/VHF transceiver can TX from about 40 Khz to 700 KHz for the LF/MF part with 3 sets of lowpass filters for 73, 136 and 500 kHz and the RX is usable down to about 4 kHz in USB mode.
          > Antenna however is the LF1010 which is usable a bit at 9 Khz and the MiniWhip from pa0rdt which I have not connected yet, due to other hamradio work hi.
          >
          > Yes there are for shortwave listeners recievers around which can do the 9 Khz and perhaps a lot lower.
          > Like the AOR7030(+), which is used by many SW listeners. Probably the SDR receivers and transceivers can go also very low.
          >
          > Furthermore there are also converters to convert the band to 10 MHz.
          >
          > So best would be to have also the option to feed the Op4H with the normal SSB audio for RX, which make the numbers of possible listeners bigger.
          >
          >
          > Yes about the Op4H SDR RX/TX :
          >
          > This is very nice!
          >
          > Will see how I get that running on RX soon.
          > What would be the right way to secure the soundcard from statics and strange currents and so from the antenna ?.
          >
          > 73
          >
          > Paul, pa0ocd
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Paul,
          > >
          > > Do you mean , you are using a conventional RX for 8Khz reception , so would have a audio o/p in the audio ssb range ?
          > >
          > > That was not anticipated , as the sound card will function directly at 8Khz so the RX function is centered on the 8K band, to date, all the testing has utilized sound-card based SDR tx / rx
          > >
          > > You say 'many others' is this a wide spread problem ?
          > >
          > > Tnx -G.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "paulwijnand" <paulwijnand@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hello Graham,
          > > >
          > > > Is it possible to have for OP4H for RX, also the normal audio input for the soundcard??
          > > >
          > > > In that way I can use, like many others, my normal SSB Receiver for 9 KHz.
          > > >
          > > > 73
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Paul, pa0ocd
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > WANTED 8KHz OP4H OPERA TESTER'S
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Dreaming of sending data ?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > After testing , the Dreamer's Band 8KHz version of the
          > > > > Opera Beacon system is ready for AIR testing (OR) GROUND
          > > > > testing. The Opera beacon tx time has been extended to 4 hours
          > > > > to give maximum sensitivity , while maintaining transmit times in
          > > > > keeping with the 8K activity at the moment
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > At approximately 50 % duty cycle , the system will transmit 2
          > > > > hours of carrier in every 4, so should reduce the electricity bill
          > > > > !, while sending the full call sign , as in the LF>HF versions ,
          > > > > the decode criteria remains at approx randomly 50% of the data
          > > > > during the Tx time required to achieve a decode.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Decode sensitivity is estimated to be approx -47 dB , but this
          > > > > is based on the sim-path calibration and may extend lower in actual
          > > > > use.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > In tests , a signal , modulated by the Opera on/off keying , level
          > > > > reduced to 'normal off air' was demonstrated to leave a trace on
          > > > > `Spec Lab' so station's using Opera will also show as
          > > > > per normal on the web based grabbers etc, with the additional
          > > > > possibility of Opera decodes.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > As in the LF>HF versions , Opera utilises the PC sound card for
          > > > > both Tx and Rx and requires NO high stability oscillators or time
          > > > > synchronisation , all testing being conducted with normal
          > > > > soundcards, mostly with local Tx and Rx using very small Ae's
          > > > > over short MK1 back garden test ranges.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Users operating at 8Khz will show on the psk-reporting map as band
          > > > > `unknown', both Tx and Rx stations are included in the
          > > > > display to ensure maximum visability.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Transmit Keying
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Tx keying is provided by way of a direct audio drive from the
          > > > > sound card or by way of on/off keying by the com-port ptt key
          > > > > output from the software. An additional com port may be addressed to
          > > > > perform station Tx/Rx functions at change over. Due to the longer time
          > > > > scales, the switching times of heaver 'power' relays will not
          > > > > affect system performance, simplifying switching if need be.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Rx requirements
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Receive is facilitated by the direct input to the sound card at the
          > > > > 8Khz operating frequency , no filtering or pre processing is
          > > > > required, however, the receiver is of fixed bandwidth so if using
          > > > > external oscillator , its important to ensure the signal falls
          > > > > within the bass band.
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Compatibility ,
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Opera is designed to operate with all `new' versions of
          > > > > window's and is compatible with running multiple sessions of
          > > > > Spec-Lab and Opera on the same PC
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Function
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > The OP4H system , will provide the same data as the high frequency
          > > > > variants , s/n reporting via the web or local s/n copy if not
          > > > > web linked. The full call sign is transmitted , so the system
          > > > > may be classed as a data mode .
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > If there are any questions etc ,pls contact myself Graham G0NBD
          > > > > or Gary G4WGT ,
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • graham787
          I think the waterfall spectrum, is more for indication only and plays no part in the decode process, make sure SpecLab is set to 48KHz sample rate to prevent
          Message 4 of 25 , May 2, 2012
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            I think the waterfall spectrum, is more for indication only and plays no part in the decode process, make sure SpecLab is set to 48KHz sample rate to prevent Op decode problems.

            See also the notes on per-amps and loop Ae's for 9Khz reception.

            Tnx -G.

            --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" <cyberknol@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hello Graham,
            > I think that must be it. Intermodulation...
            >
            > Now testing LOCALY with notebook PC and a Loop antenna at the LS output. The RX computer is connected to the PA3RDT Mini Whip antenna
            > in the backyard.
            >
            > Some comments:
            > 1)Perhaps a idea to slow down the waterfall, zoom it at 9 KHz and/or let is scroll horyzontal ?
            >
            > I did degrease my TX signal level until the trace was 'just' visible in the OPERA spectrum. I run Spectrum Lab parallel at the RX PC, but there is the transmitted OPERA signal almost overloading-bright in the Spectrum Lab Spectogram.
            >
            >
            > 2)When I increase audio input till it reach about 10 / 11 o'clock at the VU indicator (33% ?) it is already overmodulated. I see intermodulation signals arise at 33% level. I did adjust input till signal was best visible in spectrum, then level indicator is most of the time in the yellow section at 9 o'clock with level -24dB. The VU meter indicator is very servous and often jumps from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock. CPU use is 14% here at my ACER Extensa 5235 notebook.
            >
            > That's it for now. Results take some time :-)
            >
            > Peter, PA1SDB
            > www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Ok , the waterfall shows only 8 to 11 Khz, But you say you are using a microphone ? I think you are seeing some inter modulation and possibly harmonics from the whistle .by default the waterfall is showing very low signal levels .. so these hf products may be quite low?
            > >
            > > Good luck with the monitoring, if you know any local stations testing with 100% carrier, see if they will add the OP4H modulation , if they are not Op users normally !
            > >
            > > Tnx -G.
            > >
            > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" <cyberknol@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Hello Graham. Interesting. I'm a 8 KHz listener for one month or so:
            > > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
            > > > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
            > > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb> Just wondering why the audio spectrum (~1000
            > > > Khz ) becomes mixed with 9 Khz in the waterfall spectogram. Take a
            > > > look here.... <--- <http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb/OPERA_8Khz.jpg> Above
            > > > you see a 9010 Hz carrier generated by Spectrum lab, and me whistle
            > > > around "1500 Hertz. Both recorded via the mike input at the notebook and
            > > > become visible in the waterfall. Totaly at top (2mm), I did hit the
            > > > "PrtSc + Alt" buttons :-) Best 73's, Peter - PA1SDB
            > > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
            > > > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
            > > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb>
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • p.knol
            Hello Graham, Positive copy here while testing localy. 07:23 8 PA1SDB Op4H -25 dB 02:48 8 PA1SDB Op4H -26 dB *********** 03/05/2012 *********** 22:19 8
            Message 5 of 25 , May 3, 2012
            • 0 Attachment

              Hello Graham,

              Positive copy here while testing localy.

              07:23 8 PA1SDB Op4H -25 dB
              02:48 8 PA1SDB Op4H -26 dB
                  ***********  03/05/2012  *********** 
              22:19 8 PA1SDB Op4H -12 dB
                  ***********  02/05/2012  *********** 

              Now decreasing power to see where it ends. The RX computer is connected to the PA0RDT Mini Whip, so i'ts getting lightning QRN, playstation noise, vacuümcleaner noise and interference from other 8 KHz testers :-)

              TX is a noteboook, some wire and few 100 mWatt audio output at a open pice of wire.

              73's, Peter - PA1SDB - http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb

               

               

               

               

               

              -- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@...> wrote:

              >
              > I think the waterfall spectrum, is more for indication only and plays no part in the decode process, make sure SpecLab is set to 48KHz sample rate to prevent Op decode problems.
              >
              > See also the notes on per-amps and loop Ae's for 9Khz reception.
              >
              > Tnx -G.
              >
              > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" cyberknol@ wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > Hello Graham,
              > > I think that must be it. Intermodulation...
              > >
              > > Now testing LOCALY with notebook PC and a Loop antenna at the LS output. The RX computer is connected to the PA3RDT Mini Whip antenna
              > > in the backyard.
              > >
              > > Some comments:
              > > 1)Perhaps a idea to slow down the waterfall, zoom it at 9 KHz and/or let is scroll horyzontal ?
              > >
              > > I did degrease my TX signal level until the trace was 'just' visible in the OPERA spectrum. I run Spectrum Lab parallel at the RX PC, but there is the transmitted OPERA signal almost overloading-bright in the Spectrum Lab Spectogram.
              > >
              > >
              > > 2)When I increase audio input till it reach about 10 / 11 o'clock at the VU indicator (33% ?) it is already overmodulated. I see intermodulation signals arise at 33% level. I did adjust input till signal was best visible in spectrum, then level indicator is most of the time in the yellow section at 9 o'clock with level -24dB. The VU meter indicator is very servous and often jumps from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock. CPU use is 14% here at my ACER Extensa 5235 notebook.
              > >
              > > That's it for now. Results take some time :-)
              > >
              > > Peter, PA1SDB
              > > www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > > Ok , the waterfall shows only 8 to 11 Khz, But you say you are using a microphone ? I think you are seeing some inter modulation and possibly harmonics from the whistle .by default the waterfall is showing very low signal levels .. so these hf products may be quite low?
              > > >
              > > > Good luck with the monitoring, if you know any local stations testing with 100% carrier, see if they will add the OP4H modulation , if they are not Op users normally !
              > > >
              > > > Tnx -G.
              > > >
              > > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" <cyberknol@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Hello Graham. Interesting. I'm a 8 KHz listener for one month or so:
              > > > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
              > > > > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
              > > > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb> Just wondering why the audio spectrum (~1000
              > > > > Khz ) becomes mixed with 9 Khz in the waterfall spectogram. Take a
              > > > > look here.... <--- <http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb/OPERA_8Khz.jpg> Above
              > > > > you see a 9010 Hz carrier generated by Spectrum lab, and me whistle
              > > > > around "1500 Hertz. Both recorded via the mike input at the notebook and
              > > > > become visible in the waterfall. Totaly at top (2mm), I did hit the
              > > > > "PrtSc + Alt" buttons :-) Best 73's, Peter - PA1SDB
              > > > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
              > > > > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
              > > > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb>
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              >

            • graham787
              R Peter , may be 100 uW will be getting close to the decode floor ? as the system is measuring s/n , a 20 db attenuator in the tx line may do the
              Message 6 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                R Peter , may be 100 uW will be getting close to the decode floor ? as the system is measuring s/n , a 20 db attenuator in the tx line may do the trick ? but then may be 10 more?

                Tnx for testing, any stations trying air test over distance ?

                73 -G.


                --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" <cyberknol@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Hello Graham,
                >
                > Positive copy here while testing localy.
                >
                > 07:23 8 PA1SDB Op4H -25 dB
                > 02:48 8 PA1SDB Op4H -26 dB
                > *********** 03/05/2012 ***********
                > 22:19 8 PA1SDB Op4H -12 dB
                > *********** 02/05/2012 ***********
                >
                > Now decreasing power to see where it ends. The RX computer is connected
                > to the PA0RDT Mini Whip, so i'ts getting lightning QRN, playstation
                > noise, vacuümcleaner noise and interference from other 8 KHz testers
                > :-)
                >
                > TX is a noteboook, some wire and few 100 mWatt audio output at a open
                > pice of wire.
                >
                > 73's, Peter - PA1SDB - http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
                > <http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I think the waterfall spectrum, is more for indication only and plays
                > no part in the decode process, make sure SpecLab is set to 48KHz sample
                > rate to prevent Op decode problems.
                > >
                > > See also the notes on per-amps and loop Ae's for 9Khz reception.
                > >
                > > Tnx -G.
                > >
                > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" cyberknol@ wrote:
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > Hello Graham,
                > > > I think that must be it. Intermodulation...
                > > >
                > > > Now testing LOCALY with notebook PC and a Loop antenna at the LS
                > output. The RX computer is connected to the PA3RDT Mini Whip antenna
                > > > in the backyard.
                > > >
                > > > Some comments:
                > > > 1)Perhaps a idea to slow down the waterfall, zoom it at 9 KHz and/or
                > let is scroll horyzontal ?
                > > >
                > > > I did degrease my TX signal level until the trace was 'just' visible
                > in the OPERA spectrum. I run Spectrum Lab parallel at the RX PC, but
                > there is the transmitted OPERA signal almost overloading-bright in the
                > Spectrum Lab Spectogram.
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > 2)When I increase audio input till it reach about 10 / 11 o'clock at
                > the VU indicator (33% ?) it is already overmodulated. I see
                > intermodulation signals arise at 33% level. I did adjust input till
                > signal was best visible in spectrum, then level indicator is most of the
                > time in the yellow section at 9 o'clock with level -24dB. The VU meter
                > indicator is very servous and often jumps from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock.
                > CPU use is 14% here at my ACER Extensa 5235 notebook.
                > > >
                > > > That's it for now. Results take some time :-)
                > > >
                > > > Peter, PA1SDB
                > > > www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "graham787" <g0nbd@> wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > Ok , the waterfall shows only 8 to 11 Khz, But you say you are
                > using a microphone ? I think you are seeing some inter modulation and
                > possibly harmonics from the whistle .by default the waterfall is showing
                > very low signal levels .. so these hf products may be quite low?
                > > > >
                > > > > Good luck with the monitoring, if you know any local stations
                > testing with 100% carrier, see if they will add the OP4H modulation , if
                > they are not Op users normally !
                > > > >
                > > > > Tnx -G.
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "p.knol" <cyberknol@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Hello Graham. Interesting. I'm a 8 KHz listener for one month or
                > so:
                > > > > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
                > > > > >
                > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
                > \
                > > > > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb> Just wondering why the audio spectrum
                > (~1000
                > > > > > Khz ) becomes mixed with 9 Khz in the waterfall spectogram. Take
                > a
                > > > > > look here.... <--- <http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb/OPERA_8Khz.jpg>
                > Above
                > > > > > you see a 9010 Hz carrier generated by Spectrum lab, and me
                > whistle
                > > > > > around "1500 Hertz. Both recorded via the mike input at the
                > notebook and
                > > > > > become visible in the waterfall. Totaly at top (2mm), I did hit
                > the
                > > > > > "PrtSc + Alt" buttons :-) Best 73's, Peter - PA1SDB
                > > > > > http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb
                > > > > >
                > <mhtml:{66EE0916-36F0-490E-81AB-E0CD8BF2F936}mid://00000272/!x-usc:http:\
                > \
                > > > > > //www.qsl.net/pa1sdb>
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • Richard B Georgina
                Hi G, I just built a crazy antenna (don t laugh folks.) I used my 160 dipole and turned it into a watch a ma call it antenna.. Actually it might be an earth
                Message 7 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                  Hi G,
                   
                  I just built a crazy antenna (don't laugh folks.) I used my 160 dipole and turned it into a "watch a ma call it" antenna.. Actually it might be an earth dipole. I took both ends of the dipole and ran wire from them and nailed it to the roots of a tree at each end. I have used tree antennas for many years at VLF. Instead of plugging the antenna directly into the audio out from my sound card I decided to use a set of amplified computer speakers as a buffer. The antenna plugs into them.
                   
                  I'm using another computer and different tree antenna for RX. The 2 antennas are only about 100 feet apart. When I TX there is a nice bright trace on the RX computer between the waterfall RX lines.
                   
                  I have a friend (K4RKM) that 60 miles from my QTH. Ill drop him an Email and see if he wants to experiment.
                   
                  BTW the only trace that's brighter on the waterfall is the 60Hz mains...!
                   
                  I have been wanting to experiment @ 9 KHz for a long time. Thanks Jose Alberto for the needed software and G for keeping up to date.
                   
                  Rich
                  WD4RBX
                   
                  PS power out will be increased to 250 watts soon.
                   
                  >>R Peter , may  be  100 uW  will be  getting close to the  decode floor ? as the  system is  measuring s/n , a  20 db attenuator in the tx line may do the  trick ? but then may be 10 more?
                   
                  Tnx for testing, any stations  trying air  test over  distance ?
                   
                  73 -G.<<
                • p.knol
                  Hello Richard, all... ... waterfall RX lines. I m testing here localy, but the signal is not visible anymore in the waterfall at this moment. Although the
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                    Hello Richard, all...

                    >"Richard B Georgina" <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                    > When I TX there is a nice bright trace on the RX computer between the waterfall RX lines.

                    I'm testing here localy, but the signal is not visible anymore in the waterfall at this moment.
                    Although the signal is still being decoded at -48dB levels.

                    So, don't think  "I see nothing, there is nothing".

                     

                    Peter - Pa1SDB

                    www.qsl.net/pa1sdb

                     

                  • Richard B Georgina
                    Hi Peter, My local test has my signal at -5 dB. What is your TX and RX antenna? Rich WD4RBX ... waterfall RX lines. I m testing here localy, but the signal is
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                      Hi Peter,
                       
                      My local test has my signal at -5 dB. What is your TX and RX antenna?
                       
                      Rich
                      WD4RBX
                       
                      >>Hello Richard, all...
                       

                      >"Richard B Georgina" <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                      > When I TX
                      there is a nice bright trace on the RX computer between the
                      waterfall RX lines.
                       
                      I'm testing here localy, but the signal is not visible anymore in the
                      waterfall at this moment.
                      Although the signal is still being decoded at -48dB levels.
                       
                      So, don't think  "I see nothing, there is nothing".
                       
                       
                       
                      Peter - Pa1SDB<<
                    • p.knol
                      Hello Richard, My TX is a 10 yr old ASUS notebook + WIN XP. The antenna is a pice of open wire connected to the speaker output of the notebook. I think audio
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                        Hello Richard,

                        My TX is a 10 yr old ASUS notebook + WIN XP. The antenna is a pice of open wire connected to the speaker output of the notebook. I think audio output is around 1/3th of maximum. Don't know how much. Not importand for backyard test's...

                        My RX PC is a 2 yr old ACER notebook with Vista on it. The antenna is located in the backyard at about 25 meters from the TX antenna. The RX antenna is designed by PA0RDT, caled Mini Whip. Take a look at my webpage where I was writing experiences, while I did start a few months ago, to listen for stations on 8970.0 Hertz. http://www.qsl.net/pa1sdb





                        --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, "Richard B Georgina" <wd4rbx@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Hi Peter,
                        >
                        > My local test has my signal at -5 dB. What is your TX and RX antenna?
                        >
                        > Rich
                        > WD4RBX
                        >
                        > >>Hello Richard, all...
                        >
                        >
                        > >"Richard B Georgina" <wd4rbx@> wrote:
                        > > When I TX there is a nice bright trace on the RX computer between the
                        > waterfall RX lines.
                        >
                        > I'm testing here localy, but the signal is not visible anymore in the
                        > waterfall at this moment.
                        > Although the signal is still being decoded at -48dB levels.
                        >
                        > So, don't think "I see nothing, there is nothing".
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Peter - Pa1SDB<<
                        >
                      • Philip Gladstone
                        ... If you give me an unused color, I ll add 8kHz as a frequency band Philip -- Philip Gladstone Ham: N1DQ
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                          On 4/29/2012 3:24 PM, graham787 wrote:
                           

                           

                          Users operating at 8Khz   will show on the psk-reporting   map as band `unknown', both  Tx  and  Rx  stations  are included  in the  display to  ensure  maximum  visability.

                           

                          If you give me an unused color, I'll add 8kHz as a frequency band

                          Philip
                          -- 
                          Philip Gladstone               
                          Ham: N1DQ
                          
                        • graham787
                          Ok Thank s Philip, Looking at the legend , all I can see is Bright Orange that has not been used ? unless anyone else has has a suggestion, that may be the
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                            Ok Thank's Philip,

                            Looking at the legend , all I can see is 'Bright Orange' that has not been used ? unless anyone else has has a suggestion, that may be the only free distinct color ?

                            73 -G.



                            --- In O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com, Philip Gladstone <philip-yahoo@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On 4/29/2012 3:24 PM, graham787 wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Users operating at 8Khzwill show on the psk-reportingmap as band
                            > > `unknown', bothTxandRxstationsare includedin thedisplay
                            > > toensuremaximumvisability.
                            > >
                            > If you give me an unused color, I'll add 8kHz as a frequency band
                            >
                            > Philip
                            >
                            > --
                            > Philip Gladstone
                            > Ham: N1DQ
                            >
                          • Richard B Georgina
                            Roger that Peter, Rich ... Hello Richard, My TX is a 10 yr old ASUS notebook + WIN XP. The antenna is a pice of open wire connected to the speaker output of
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 3, 2012
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                              Roger that Peter,
                               
                              Rich
                               
                              >>
                              Hello Richard,
                               
                              My TX is a 10 yr old ASUS notebook + WIN XP. The antenna is a pice of open wire connected to the speaker output of the notebook. I think audio output is around 1/3th of maximum. Don't know how much. Not importand for backyard test's...<<
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