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RE: Re: [ORE_bits] Microsoft Robotics Studio

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  • Mordechai Brodt
    The Microsoft Robotics Studio software does not require that the robot itself have a PC running Xp. They have examples for the Lego Mindstorms RCX,
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2006
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      The Microsoft Robotics Studio software does not require that the robot itself have a PC running Xp. They have examples for the Lego Mindstorms RCX, Fischertechnic, and others. The http://www.roboticsconnection.com/index.html controller http://www.roboticsconnection.com/catalog/item/1767486/2337356.htm will have a driver for this framework as well, and this board is just a PIC and some sensor interfaces. In addition, there is robot physics simulation software, so overall it is a pretty interesting system, especially when considering swarm robotics.Mordechai Brodt


      .


      mordomanca wrote:> Check out > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/robotics/> > Microsoft Announces Robotics Studio> Microsoft announces the Microsoft Robotics Studio, which offers end-to-> end robotics development environment customer technical preview for > hobbyist, academic, and commercial developers. I've been thinking about this thing (and went to their site to read about it). I just can't see how this is going to make any impact. They've tied it to XP and XP is not nearly a real time OS. Also, how many robots have the resources to run with a computer capable of running XP anyhow?They might suck up a small piece of the research market but I can't see it doing much either in the hobbiest market or in the industrial markets.Aaron


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    • kevin vivaraies
      Is this under development? I read a bit on it. The simulation sounds neat. I assume there is a way to program hardware with it. _____ From:
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2006
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        Is this under development? I read a bit on it. The simulation sounds neat. I
        assume there is a way to program hardware with it.





        _____

        From: ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Mordechai Brodt
        Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 11:53 AM
        To: ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: Re: [ORE_bits] Microsoft Robotics Studio



        The Microsoft Robotics Studio software does not require that the robot
        itself have a PC running Xp. They have examples for the Lego Mindstorms RCX,
        Fischertechnic, and others. The http://www.robotics
        <http://www.roboticsconnection.com/index.html> connection.com/index.html
        controller http://www.robotics
        <http://www.roboticsconnection.com/catalog/item/1767486/2337356.htm>
        connection.com/catalog/item/1767486/2337356.htm will have a driver for this
        framework as well, and this board is just a PIC and some sensor interfaces.
        In addition, there is robot physics simulation software, so overall it is a
        pretty interesting system, especially when considering swarm
        robotics.Mordechai Brodt

        .





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • aaron_ramsey
        Well.... after thinking about it for a while, I broke down and decided to run a full PC on a large size robot for my next adventure. I picked up these:
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 18, 2006
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          Well.... after thinking about it for a while, I broke down and decided
          to run a full PC on a large size robot for my next adventure.

          I picked up these:
          http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250006699657&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1

          Embedded PC motherboards running at 800MHz. I took a look at the VIA
          EPIA stuff too but finally decided that I'd prefer to trade off power
          requirements for raw horsepower. The EPIA chips came up a little short
          when it can to crunching data when compared to the Intel and AMD
          processors. Not that I have that much data to crunch... but just
          couldn't help myself. I also looked at broken laptops (ie- screen
          busted but everything else functional), but they ran almost twice as
          much for roughly the same speed.

          I'm going to hang a bunch of PIC processors off of the USB bus (and
          maybe the PC/104 bus if I need more data to be running around) for
          motion control and whatnot.

          Now I've got to decide about what OS to run on the robot. XP gives me
          more access to fun stuff (webcams, etc...), but Linux is just good
          karma. <grin> I guess I'm going to have to download this Microsoft
          framework and see whether it will do the trick or not.

          This all came about after watching Guys robot at the last meeting
          interacting with people. That got me thinking about the old movies
          robots which I loved as a kid, which made me think of the old Hero
          robots (too expensive to buy now though), which led me to the 914pc
          robots (not available yet), which led me to the EPIA motherboards,
          which took me to ebay. <grin>

          So basically I want to try building a robot that is pretty interactive
          and doesn't look like the glue-gun monsters that I generally build.
          I'm going to try making a case from fiberglass and give it a bit of an
          Heathkit Hero look.

          But first I've got to figure out how to mount the damn wheels to my
          motors! ARG! Always the thing that screws me up. I've got a whole
          bunch of awesome wheels from Princess Auto and some really nice and
          powerful geared motors... just need some way to bring them all together.

          Aaron


          --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Mordechai Brodt" <mbrodt@...> wrote:
          >
          > The Microsoft Robotics Studio software does not require that the
          robot itself have a PC running Xp. They have examples for the Lego
          Mindstorms RCX, Fischertechnic, and others. The
          http://www.roboticsconnection.com/index.html controller
          http://www.roboticsconnection.com/catalog/item/1767486/2337356.htm
          will have a driver for this framework as well, and this board is just
          a PIC and some sensor interfaces. In addition, there is robot physics
          simulation software, so overall it is a pretty interesting system,
          especially when considering swarm robotics.Mordechai Brodt
        • stephane641
          If you choose your hardware carefully linux will run much smoother and require way less resources. After all you don t need a GUI running all the time.
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 18, 2006
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            If you choose your hardware carefully linux will run much smoother and
            require way less resources. After all you don't need a GUI running all
            the time. Windows' GUI probably makes 50% of it's memory footprint.
            Let me know if you need help with the linux stuff. I have a good idea
            of which USB2.0 cameras work under linux and even sound cards.
            Unless you just don't enjoy the research part then you can just put
            windows. But then again, it would still feel like a PC.

            My 0b00000010 cents,

            --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_ramsey" <spamtest@...> wrote:
            >
            > Well.... after thinking about it for a while, I broke down and decided
            > to run a full PC on a large size robot for my next adventure.
            >
            > I picked up these:
            >
            http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250006699657&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
            >
            > Embedded PC motherboards running at 800MHz. I took a look at the VIA
            > EPIA stuff too but finally decided that I'd prefer to trade off power
            > requirements for raw horsepower. The EPIA chips came up a little short
            > when it can to crunching data when compared to the Intel and AMD
            > processors. Not that I have that much data to crunch... but just
            > couldn't help myself. I also looked at broken laptops (ie- screen
            > busted but everything else functional), but they ran almost twice as
            > much for roughly the same speed.
            >
            > I'm going to hang a bunch of PIC processors off of the USB bus (and
            > maybe the PC/104 bus if I need more data to be running around) for
            > motion control and whatnot.
            >
            > Now I've got to decide about what OS to run on the robot. XP gives me
            > more access to fun stuff (webcams, etc...), but Linux is just good
            > karma. <grin> I guess I'm going to have to download this Microsoft
            > framework and see whether it will do the trick or not.
            >
            > This all came about after watching Guys robot at the last meeting
            > interacting with people. That got me thinking about the old movies
            > robots which I loved as a kid, which made me think of the old Hero
            > robots (too expensive to buy now though), which led me to the 914pc
            > robots (not available yet), which led me to the EPIA motherboards,
            > which took me to ebay. <grin>
            >
            > So basically I want to try building a robot that is pretty interactive
            > and doesn't look like the glue-gun monsters that I generally build.
            > I'm going to try making a case from fiberglass and give it a bit of an
            > Heathkit Hero look.
            >
            > But first I've got to figure out how to mount the damn wheels to my
            > motors! ARG! Always the thing that screws me up. I've got a whole
            > bunch of awesome wheels from Princess Auto and some really nice and
            > powerful geared motors... just need some way to bring them all together.
            >
            > Aaron
            >
            >
            > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Mordechai Brodt" <mbrodt@> wrote:
            > >
            > > The Microsoft Robotics Studio software does not require that the
            > robot itself have a PC running Xp. They have examples for the Lego
            > Mindstorms RCX, Fischertechnic, and others. The
            > http://www.roboticsconnection.com/index.html controller
            > http://www.roboticsconnection.com/catalog/item/1767486/2337356.htm
            > will have a driver for this framework as well, and this board is just
            > a PIC and some sensor interfaces. In addition, there is robot physics
            > simulation software, so overall it is a pretty interesting system,
            > especially when considering swarm robotics.Mordechai Brodt
            >
          • aaron_ramsey
            What vision toolkit are you using on your linux robot? Is that homegrown completely, or based off of some preexisting stuff? That type of thing is definitely
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 18, 2006
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              What vision toolkit are you using on your linux robot? Is that
              homegrown completely, or based off of some preexisting stuff? That
              type of thing is definitely on my list of stuff to do with the robot.

              Aaron


              --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "stephane641" <gauthier.stephane@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > If you choose your hardware carefully linux will run much smoother and
              > require way less resources. After all you don't need a GUI running all
              > the time. Windows' GUI probably makes 50% of it's memory footprint.
              > Let me know if you need help with the linux stuff. I have a good idea
              > of which USB2.0 cameras work under linux and even sound cards.
              > Unless you just don't enjoy the research part then you can just put
              > windows. But then again, it would still feel like a PC.
            • stephane641
              I started with all homegrown just so that I would get a better grasp of the basics and later port/embedded CMVision s fast colour segmentation lib in my
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 18, 2006
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                I started with all homegrown just so that I would get a better grasp
                of the basics and later port/embedded CMVision's fast colour
                segmentation lib in my library.

                There's lot of nice libraries out there. openCV is definitely
                something I'd like to explore but the compromise for it's complexity
                and Flexibility is memory footprint and major processing requirements.
                But it does fancy stuff like face recognition and more so...

                For my 266Mhz ARM board I only wanted to start with a fast (30+hz)
                colour segmentation engine. I've learned a whole lot in the process
                and will most definitely explore OpenCV in future robot using faster
                processors.

                But if all you want is the end result (interactive robot) then you can
                simply skip all the learning part. I would highly recommend the Leaf
                project. The only bad is that it uses windows but somebody will be
                converting to Java so...eventually...

                Let me know if I can help,

                ps: we can discuss this further next time I see you...

                --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_ramsey" <spamtest@...> wrote:
                >
                > What vision toolkit are you using on your linux robot? Is that
                > homegrown completely, or based off of some preexisting stuff? That
                > type of thing is definitely on my list of stuff to do with the robot.
                >
                > Aaron
                >
                >
                > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "stephane641" <gauthier.stephane@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > If you choose your hardware carefully linux will run much smoother and
                > > require way less resources. After all you don't need a GUI running all
                > > the time. Windows' GUI probably makes 50% of it's memory footprint.
                > > Let me know if you need help with the linux stuff. I have a good idea
                > > of which USB2.0 cameras work under linux and even sound cards.
                > > Unless you just don't enjoy the research part then you can just put
                > > windows. But then again, it would still feel like a PC.
                >
              • micro223
                What are you going to use to power that thing? Guy ...
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 19, 2006
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                  What are you going to use to power that thing?

                  Guy


                  --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_ramsey" <spamtest@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Well.... after thinking about it for a while, I broke down and decided
                  > to run a full PC on a large size robot for my next adventure.
                  >
                  > I picked up these:
                  >
                  http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250006699657&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
                  >
                  > Embedded PC motherboards running at 800MHz.
                • Aaron Ramsey
                  Well, first I m going to take some measurements and see just how much power I need. The last board that I played with like this was only a 233MHz board but it
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 20, 2006
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                    Well, first I'm going to take some measurements and see just how much
                    power I need. The last board that I played with like this was only a
                    233MHz board but it needed around 3 amps on the 5V line while basically
                    doing nothing so I'm guessing that I'm going to need a little more than
                    that. <grin> (interesting note: that board used 3 amps idle, around 4
                    amps peak when booting under linux... it used 4.5 amps idle and over 5
                    amps when booting under windows). Of course, these numbers include the
                    hard drive while I won't be using. Those boards have a disk-on-chip
                    socket and I've got a 144MB one of those around so I might try to run
                    with that. If I need more space then I'll run a 512M compact flash + a
                    CF to IDE adapter also.

                    I'm going to run lead-acid batteries initially with it, maybe move to
                    lithium if I ever win the lotto. ;-)

                    I'll be happy with an hour of run time. My motors will end up drawing
                    more than the PC so I'm not going to sweat the power draw of the
                    motherboard too much. That was part of what helped me make my decision
                    to go with a PC...

                    Aaron



                    micro223 wrote:
                    > What are you going to use to power that thing?
                    >
                    > Guy
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_ramsey" <spamtest@...> wrote:
                    >> Well.... after thinking about it for a while, I broke down and decided
                    >> to run a full PC on a large size robot for my next adventure.
                    >>
                    >> I picked up these:
                    >>
                    > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250006699657&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
                    >> Embedded PC motherboards running at 800MHz.
                  • stephane641
                    Actually, unless your motors are of very low quality, you ll find that the most demanding module on power is the processor board. My little 266Mhz XScale ARM
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 20, 2006
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                      Actually, unless your motors are of very low quality, you'll find that
                      the most demanding module on power is the processor board.
                      My little 266Mhz XScale ARM board pulls .5A by itself and the motors
                      (high quality PIttmans) pull next to nothing.
                      In fact, when I ordered my LiPo packs, I ordered a cheap 14.4V/1700mAh
                      for the motors and the fattest 11.1V 2500mAh pack for the CPU. I
                      almost bought the 3500mAh pack but that was a bit too big for my
                      current platform.

                      You'll quickly find out that those PC boards are just not designed for
                      power efficiency. But if you don't mind charging them every hour
                      that's not an issue. I might wait for those newer intel XScale boards
                      that run at 667Mhz and up. They are designed for low-power apps. I
                      might not be able to run a face recognition application but then
                      again, that's a bit overkill.

                      How big are you planning to make that bot? Full size? Like 1 meter
                      high or?

                      later,

                      --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Ramsey <spamtest@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, first I'm going to take some measurements and see just how much
                      > power I need. The last board that I played with like this was only a
                      > 233MHz board but it needed around 3 amps on the 5V line while basically
                      > doing nothing so I'm guessing that I'm going to need a little more than
                      > that. <grin> (interesting note: that board used 3 amps idle, around 4
                      > amps peak when booting under linux... it used 4.5 amps idle and over 5
                      > amps when booting under windows). Of course, these numbers include the
                      > hard drive while I won't be using. Those boards have a disk-on-chip
                      > socket and I've got a 144MB one of those around so I might try to run
                      > with that. If I need more space then I'll run a 512M compact flash + a
                      > CF to IDE adapter also.
                      >
                      > I'm going to run lead-acid batteries initially with it, maybe move to
                      > lithium if I ever win the lotto. ;-)
                      >
                      > I'll be happy with an hour of run time. My motors will end up drawing
                      > more than the PC so I'm not going to sweat the power draw of the
                      > motherboard too much. That was part of what helped me make my decision
                      > to go with a PC...
                      >
                      > Aaron
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > micro223 wrote:
                      > > What are you going to use to power that thing?
                      > >
                      > > Guy
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_ramsey" <spamtest@> wrote:
                      > >> Well.... after thinking about it for a while, I broke down and
                      decided
                      > >> to run a full PC on a large size robot for my next adventure.
                      > >>
                      > >> I picked up these:
                      > >>
                      > >
                      http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250006699657&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
                      > >> Embedded PC motherboards running at 800MHz.
                      >
                    • Aaron Ramsey
                      ... Its been a while since I measured them, but my motors draw something like a 1.4 amps with no load and around 30 amps stall or something (at 12 volts).
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 20, 2006
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                        stephane641 wrote:
                        > Actually, unless your motors are of very low quality, you'll find that
                        > the most demanding module on power is the processor board.
                        > My little 266Mhz XScale ARM board pulls .5A by itself and the motors
                        > (high quality PIttmans) pull next to nothing.

                        Its been a while since I measured them, but my motors draw something
                        like a 1.4 amps with no load and around 30 amps stall or something (at
                        12 volts).

                        http://www.robotcombat.com/marketplace_motors_ame.html

                        I picked 4 of them up last year for an outdoor robot but I think I'll
                        put them to use in this robot instead.

                        > You'll quickly find out that those PC boards are just not designed for
                        > power efficiency. But if you don't mind charging them every hour
                        > that's not an issue. I might wait for those newer intel XScale boards
                        > that run at 667Mhz and up. They are designed for low-power apps. I
                        > might not be able to run a face recognition application but then
                        > again, that's a bit overkill.

                        Yep, I'm not expecting miracles from the boards. Just lots of horse power.

                        > How big are you planning to make that bot? Full size? Like 1 meter
                        > high or?

                        Yup, full size. I'm hoping to keep it under 60 pounds or so. A meter
                        high sounds about right. I'd like it to be high enough to be able to
                        handle door knobs at some point.

                        Aaron
                      • Micro
                        Do you have a switching power supply in mind, ie, one that can provide over 5 amps from a 12-14V source? What about the other voltages? (12,-12,-5) Guy ...
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 21, 2006
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                          Do you have a switching power supply in mind, ie, one
                          that can provide over 5 amps from a 12-14V source?
                          What about the other voltages? (12,-12,-5)

                          Guy

                          --- Aaron Ramsey <spamtest@...> wrote:

                          > Well, first I'm going to take some measurements and
                          > see just how much
                          > power I need. The last board that I played with like
                          > this was only a
                          > 233MHz board but it needed around 3 amps on the 5V
                          > line while basically
                          > doing nothing so I'm guessing that I'm going to need
                          > a little more than
                          > that. <grin> (interesting note: that board used 3
                          > amps idle, around 4
                          > amps peak when booting under linux... it used 4.5
                          > amps idle and over 5
                          > amps when booting under windows). Of course, these
                          > numbers include the
                          > hard drive while I won't be using. Those boards have
                          > a disk-on-chip
                          > socket and I've got a 144MB one of those around so I
                          > might try to run
                          > with that. If I need more space then I'll run a 512M
                          > compact flash + a
                          > CF to IDE adapter also.
                          >
                          > I'm going to run lead-acid batteries initially with
                          > it, maybe move to
                          > lithium if I ever win the lotto. ;-)
                          >
                          > I'll be happy with an hour of run time. My motors
                          > will end up drawing
                          > more than the PC so I'm not going to sweat the power
                          > draw of the
                          > motherboard too much. That was part of what helped
                          > me make my decision
                          > to go with a PC...
                          >
                          > Aaron
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > micro223 wrote:
                          > > What are you going to use to power that thing?
                          > >
                          > > Guy
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "aaron_ramsey"
                          > <spamtest@...> wrote:
                          > >> Well.... after thinking about it for a while, I
                          > broke down and decided
                          > >> to run a full PC on a large size robot for my
                          > next adventure.
                          > >>
                          > >> I picked up these:
                          > >>
                          > >
                          >
                          http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&item=250006699657&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&rd=1
                          > >> Embedded PC motherboards running at 800MHz.
                          >
                          >
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                        • Aaron Ramsey
                          ... I haven t decided whether I ll build my own or use one of the ones that the car computer guys use. Likely just go with a pre-built one and save the custom
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 21, 2006
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                            Micro wrote:
                            > Do you have a switching power supply in mind, ie, one
                            > that can provide over 5 amps from a 12-14V source?
                            > What about the other voltages? (12,-12,-5)

                            I haven't decided whether I'll build my own or use one of the ones that
                            the car computer guys use. Likely just go with a pre-built one and save
                            the custom circuits for the real fun stuff. The guy at mini-itx.com have
                            a reasonable selection (although I've seen the same stuff cheaper
                            elsewhere).

                            One nice thing about those boards I got is that they don't require any
                            negative voltages, so I just have to supply 3.3, 5 and 12 to them.

                            For motor drivers, I'm going to use these ones from parallax:

                            http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=29144

                            I debated about building my own... I even have a board laid out using
                            that exact chip (from about a year ago), but I think I'll likely just
                            save myself the headache and go with commercial tested stuff. <grin>
                            I'll end up building a motor brain board which will control these
                            h-bridge boards and it will take care of the encoders, PID, etc...

                            Aaron
                          • Aaron Ramsey
                            ... Well, got my embedded motherboards late last week and I finally got a chance to start playing with them. Around 3.5 amps on the 5V line and 2.5 amps on the
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 30, 2006
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                              Aaron Ramsey wrote:
                              > Micro wrote:
                              >> Do you have a switching power supply in mind, ie, one
                              >> that can provide over 5 amps from a 12-14V source?
                              >> What about the other voltages? (12,-12,-5)
                              >
                              > I haven't decided whether I'll build my own or use one of the ones that
                              > the car computer guys use. Likely just go with a pre-built one and save
                              > the custom circuits for the real fun stuff. The guy at mini-itx.com have
                              > a reasonable selection (although I've seen the same stuff cheaper
                              > elsewhere).
                              >
                              > One nice thing about those boards I got is that they don't require any
                              > negative voltages, so I just have to supply 3.3, 5 and 12 to them.

                              Well, got my embedded motherboards late last week and I finally got a
                              chance to start playing with them. Around 3.5 amps on the 5V line and
                              2.5 amps on the 3.3V line. Current on the 12V isn't much to sweat. So
                              that's pretty decent. I was expecting worse.

                              I couldn't get my DiskOnChip modules working very well though. They are
                              144Mbyte modules, but they have only a 16M module loaded with Dos on
                              them. It looks like I can't reformat them with ext2 or similar to run
                              linux on them because it screws up the hardware drivers that get loaded
                              when the system boots up, so I would need to install linux on dos (ie-
                              loading dos then booting linux using a big ass file). Uggg.... avoiding
                              that.

                              I ordered a compact flash to IDE adapter and I may end up using it with
                              a spare 512M module I have kicking around. In the meantime I pulled out
                              an old 20G laptop hard drive and noticed that it is spec'd at 0.5A (max?
                              typ?) on the 5V line on the case of it. Hmmm.... might just end up using
                              that also. It would be nice to have a writable file system.

                              I've been looking at various versions of linux, primarily Puppy Linux
                              and Damn Small Linux. Both of them run at way under 100M on disk and
                              both can run from Ram, so they seemed like a good match for a flash
                              drive. I want to run GCC on the robot though... no sense having a
                              separate development PC when the bot has one of its own, right? That
                              will bump the size up. Another argument for the hard drive I suppose. If
                              I end up going that way, I might as well install a more mainstream
                              version though, something like Debian I suppose.

                              Aaron
                            • stephane641
                              Personally I mount my dev folder using NFS over my wireless link so I save a lot of power by running out of flash (mounted as r/w noatime to prevent
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 31, 2006
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Personally I mount my dev folder using NFS over my wireless link so I
                                save a lot of power by running out of flash (mounted as r/w noatime to
                                prevent accelerated wear).

                                I could run gcc on my board but at 266Mhz there's no point when I can
                                do it at highspeed on my portable and run it on the robot transparently.



                                --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Ramsey <spamtest@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Aaron Ramsey wrote:
                                > > Micro wrote:
                                > >> Do you have a switching power supply in mind, ie, one
                                > >> that can provide over 5 amps from a 12-14V source?
                                > >> What about the other voltages? (12,-12,-5)
                                > >
                                > > I haven't decided whether I'll build my own or use one of the ones
                                that
                                > > the car computer guys use. Likely just go with a pre-built one and
                                save
                                > > the custom circuits for the real fun stuff. The guy at
                                mini-itx.com have
                                > > a reasonable selection (although I've seen the same stuff cheaper
                                > > elsewhere).
                                > >
                                > > One nice thing about those boards I got is that they don't require
                                any
                                > > negative voltages, so I just have to supply 3.3, 5 and 12 to them.
                                >
                                > Well, got my embedded motherboards late last week and I finally got a
                                > chance to start playing with them. Around 3.5 amps on the 5V line and
                                > 2.5 amps on the 3.3V line. Current on the 12V isn't much to sweat. So
                                > that's pretty decent. I was expecting worse.
                                >
                                > I couldn't get my DiskOnChip modules working very well though. They are
                                > 144Mbyte modules, but they have only a 16M module loaded with Dos on
                                > them. It looks like I can't reformat them with ext2 or similar to run
                                > linux on them because it screws up the hardware drivers that get loaded
                                > when the system boots up, so I would need to install linux on dos (ie-
                                > loading dos then booting linux using a big ass file). Uggg.... avoiding
                                > that.
                                >
                                > I ordered a compact flash to IDE adapter and I may end up using it with
                                > a spare 512M module I have kicking around. In the meantime I pulled out
                                > an old 20G laptop hard drive and noticed that it is spec'd at 0.5A
                                (max?
                                > typ?) on the 5V line on the case of it. Hmmm.... might just end up
                                using
                                > that also. It would be nice to have a writable file system.
                                >
                                > I've been looking at various versions of linux, primarily Puppy Linux
                                > and Damn Small Linux. Both of them run at way under 100M on disk and
                                > both can run from Ram, so they seemed like a good match for a flash
                                > drive. I want to run GCC on the robot though... no sense having a
                                > separate development PC when the bot has one of its own, right? That
                                > will bump the size up. Another argument for the hard drive I
                                suppose. If
                                > I end up going that way, I might as well install a more mainstream
                                > version though, something like Debian I suppose.
                                >
                                > Aaron
                                >
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