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Re: Robotics contest with $1000 grand prize...

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  • Martin Dubuc
    I meant to post a response to servioman on ORE_bits, but for some reason, my response did not show up on ORE_bits and I received a response from servioman in
    Message 1 of 6 , Apr 1, 2004
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      I meant to post a response to servioman on ORE_bits, but for some
      reason, my response did not show up on ORE_bits and I received a
      response from servioman in my personal mailbox. I have reproduced the
      email thread below.

      I still think this is a cheap way for a company to sell more stuff
      and take away some honest hobbyist designs.

      Martin

      --- "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
      Dear Martin,

      Thank you for your candid concerns. One of the purposes of this
      contest is advertising our products. We make that very clear on our
      site and are not trying to hide it. We have documented our products
      better than anyone else in the industry. Just read one of our manuals
      and you'll see. We don't need to resort to ploys to collect anything.

      I realize that the world is full of BS, but there are still people
      out there that are genuinely interested in science and robotics and
      majority of people are honest. It would not be fair to label everyone
      as crooks with sinister intentions.

      I hope that you will change your outlook of life for the sake of your
      own well-being.

      I also don't know of any contest that gave away freebees! Do you?

      martin_j_dubuc wrote:

      I don't quite like the spirit of this contest. It looks more like a
      ploy to sell hardware and collect material like pictures, schematics
      and source code to interface to their controllers. Gee, they won't
      even have to document their products, just wait for others to do that
      for them. For less than $2000!

      At least the legitimate contests offer free samples of products!

      Martin

      --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
      Hi Robotics Enthusiasts,

      I have setup a robotics contest that offers $1000 in cash to the
      first place winner. I also have a few robot projects on my site that
      might give others some new and inspiring ideas.

      Please check it out and I hope you'll consider entering the contest
      and hopefully win one of the three prizes.

      Details can be found at
      http://www.picobytes.com

      Have fun.

      Mark
    • stephane641
      I fully agree with you Martin.
      Message 2 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
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        I fully agree with you Martin.



        --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Dubuc" <captain.quebec@r...>
        wrote:
        > I meant to post a response to servioman on ORE_bits, but for some
        > reason, my response did not show up on ORE_bits and I received a
        > response from servioman in my personal mailbox. I have reproduced the
        > email thread below.
        >
        > I still think this is a cheap way for a company to sell more stuff
        > and take away some honest hobbyist designs.
        >
        > Martin
        >
        > --- "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
        > Dear Martin,
        >
        > Thank you for your candid concerns. One of the purposes of this
        > contest is advertising our products. We make that very clear on our
        > site and are not trying to hide it. We have documented our products
        > better than anyone else in the industry. Just read one of our manuals
        > and you'll see. We don't need to resort to ploys to collect anything.
        >
        > I realize that the world is full of BS, but there are still people
        > out there that are genuinely interested in science and robotics and
        > majority of people are honest. It would not be fair to label everyone
        > as crooks with sinister intentions.
        >
        > I hope that you will change your outlook of life for the sake of your
        > own well-being.
        >
        > I also don't know of any contest that gave away freebees! Do you?
        >
        > martin_j_dubuc wrote:
        >
        > I don't quite like the spirit of this contest. It looks more like a
        > ploy to sell hardware and collect material like pictures, schematics
        > and source code to interface to their controllers. Gee, they won't
        > even have to document their products, just wait for others to do that
        > for them. For less than $2000!
        >
        > At least the legitimate contests offer free samples of products!
        >
        > Martin
        >
        > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
        > Hi Robotics Enthusiasts,
        >
        > I have setup a robotics contest that offers $1000 in cash to the
        > first place winner. I also have a few robot projects on my site that
        > might give others some new and inspiring ideas.
        >
        > Please check it out and I hope you'll consider entering the contest
        > and hopefully win one of the three prizes.
        >
        > Details can be found at
        > http://www.picobytes.com
        >
        > Have fun.
        >
        > Mark
      • tellurian
        Dear Martin, I don t wish to start something over this, because I like you and respect you, but I cannot agree with your view. I m not saying you are
        Message 3 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
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          Dear Martin,

          I don't wish to start something over this, because I
          like you and respect you, but I cannot agree with your
          view. I'm not saying you are out-and-out wrong , but I
          disagree to a point.

          I only speak for myself of course, but I don't mind
          someone advertizing their new robotics site in am open
          and honest manner ... once ... more than that and I
          feel spammed and will not visit the site no matter
          what and we can have our moderators step in.

          On one of the other lists a retailer under the guise
          of 'just another robot enthrusiast' sent emails to the
          effect "wow check out site XYZ 'they' have some really
          cool stuff!". "They" being himself of course. Now that
          ~is~ dishonest. I don't feel that servioman was being
          dishonest or out of line. I don't want to discourage
          reasonable entrepenures from mentioning their new
          robotics sites, but definitely no "deal of the week"
          crap ... thankyou very much. I think it is good to
          know of new sources of things.

          respectfully,
          Allen M.

          P.S.
          no ... servioman is not my brother-in-law :-)


          --- Martin Dubuc <captain.quebec@...> wrote:
          > I meant to post a response to servioman on ORE_bits,
          > but for some
          > reason, my response did not show up on ORE_bits and
          > I received a
          > response from servioman in my personal mailbox. I
          > have reproduced the
          > email thread below.
          >
          > I still think this is a cheap way for a company to
          > sell more stuff
          > and take away some honest hobbyist designs.
          >
          > Martin


          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
          http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
        • Nick Cogghe
          I don t fully agree with you two. =) This guy has used the same rules/tactics that Circuit Cellar has been using, except that he is not giving away the
          Message 4 of 6 , Apr 2, 2004
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            I don't fully agree with you two. =)

            This guy has used the same rules/tactics that Circuit Cellar has been
            using, except that he is not giving away the hardware for free. I believe
            that we are spoiled these days.

            Why should a contest that doesn't give free hardware to anybody (and their
            mother) be any different from another contest that could not financially
            support giving away thousands of free pieces of hardware.

            Circuit Cellar and which ever partner they have for their current contest
            demands that you also release the source code for your project (from what
            I remember at least) thus you are doing the same development for them that
            you would be doing for PicoBytes.

            If you don't like the fact that you don't get free hardware for the
            contest (but still would like to use the hardware), ask for a special
            contest discount. If you just don't like the hardware, don't enter.

            I'm not looking to pick a fight (although I am sure if I wanted to do a
            better job at not picking a fight I should have just kept my mouth shut),
            I just don't think that this guy is doing anything different in the big
            picture, than any of the other contest holders.

            Nick

            P.S. : Servioman-> I have known many contests to give away free hardware.
            The current one is from Circuit Cellar and Zilog. Check it out for your
            self ->

            http://www.jandspromotions.com/zilog2004/





            On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, stephane641 wrote:

            > I fully agree with you Martin.
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Dubuc" <captain.quebec@r...>
            > wrote:
            > > I meant to post a response to servioman on ORE_bits, but for some
            > > reason, my response did not show up on ORE_bits and I received a
            > > response from servioman in my personal mailbox. I have reproduced the
            > > email thread below.
            > >
            > > I still think this is a cheap way for a company to sell more stuff
            > > and take away some honest hobbyist designs.
            > >
            > > Martin
            > >
            > > --- "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
            > > Dear Martin,
            > >
            > > Thank you for your candid concerns. One of the purposes of this
            > > contest is advertising our products. We make that very clear on our
            > > site and are not trying to hide it. We have documented our products
            > > better than anyone else in the industry. Just read one of our manuals
            > > and you'll see. We don't need to resort to ploys to collect anything.
            > >
            > > I realize that the world is full of BS, but there are still people
            > > out there that are genuinely interested in science and robotics and
            > > majority of people are honest. It would not be fair to label everyone
            > > as crooks with sinister intentions.
            > >
            > > I hope that you will change your outlook of life for the sake of your
            > > own well-being.
            > >
            > > I also don't know of any contest that gave away freebees! Do you?
            > >
            > > martin_j_dubuc wrote:
            > >
            > > I don't quite like the spirit of this contest. It looks more like a
            > > ploy to sell hardware and collect material like pictures, schematics
            > > and source code to interface to their controllers. Gee, they won't
            > > even have to document their products, just wait for others to do that
            > > for them. For less than $2000!
            > >
            > > At least the legitimate contests offer free samples of products!
            > >
            > > Martin
            > >
            > > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
            > > Hi Robotics Enthusiasts,
            > >
            > > I have setup a robotics contest that offers $1000 in cash to the
            > > first place winner. I also have a few robot projects on my site that
            > > might give others some new and inspiring ideas.
            > >
            > > Please check it out and I hope you'll consider entering the contest
            > > and hopefully win one of the three prizes.
            > >
            > > Details can be found at
            > > http://www.picobytes.com
            > >
            > > Have fun.
            > >
            > > Mark
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > ORE_bits-unsubscribe@...
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Aaron Ramsey
            I m with Nick and Allen on this. This type of contest is completely above the board and honest. I don t see any real difference between this type of thing and
            Message 5 of 6 , Apr 3, 2004
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              I'm with Nick and Allen on this. This type of contest is completely
              above the board and honest. I don't see any real difference between this
              type of thing and a Circuit Cellar contest in fact.... For instance,
              with a CC contest, you are tied to a particular device from a certain
              vendor. Circuit Cellar benefits from your entry by being able to publish
              (and then sell magazines). The vendor (Zilog, Microchip, etc...) benefit
              from your entry through the published article also (and then they sell
              devices).

              A contest is never without strings.

              By the way, Mark (servioman) emailed me before posting this to the list,
              to ask if it was alright. This post was in no way spam.

              So anyhow, I think that Martin (and Stephane-me-too) are off-base here.
              I don't see how this 'takes away hobbiest designs'. In the end, the
              designs get published on Mark's website, which increases the amount of
              knowledge out on the web.

              Why would anyone run a contest where they didn't benefit in some way?

              Aaron


              Nick Cogghe wrote:
              > I don't fully agree with you two. =)
              >
              > This guy has used the same rules/tactics that Circuit Cellar has been
              > using, except that he is not giving away the hardware for free. I believe
              > that we are spoiled these days.
              >
              > Why should a contest that doesn't give free hardware to anybody (and their
              > mother) be any different from another contest that could not financially
              > support giving away thousands of free pieces of hardware.
              >
              > Circuit Cellar and which ever partner they have for their current contest
              > demands that you also release the source code for your project (from what
              > I remember at least) thus you are doing the same development for them that
              > you would be doing for PicoBytes.
              >
              > If you don't like the fact that you don't get free hardware for the
              > contest (but still would like to use the hardware), ask for a special
              > contest discount. If you just don't like the hardware, don't enter.
              >
              > I'm not looking to pick a fight (although I am sure if I wanted to do a
              > better job at not picking a fight I should have just kept my mouth shut),
              > I just don't think that this guy is doing anything different in the big
              > picture, than any of the other contest holders.
              >
              > Nick
              >
              > P.S. : Servioman-> I have known many contests to give away free hardware.
              > The current one is from Circuit Cellar and Zilog. Check it out for your
              > self ->
              >
              > http://www.jandspromotions.com/zilog2004/
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, stephane641 wrote:
              >
              >
              >>I fully agree with you Martin.
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >>--- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Dubuc" <captain.quebec@r...>
              >>wrote:
              >>
              >>>I meant to post a response to servioman on ORE_bits, but for some
              >>>reason, my response did not show up on ORE_bits and I received a
              >>>response from servioman in my personal mailbox. I have reproduced the
              >>>email thread below.
              >>>
              >>>I still think this is a cheap way for a company to sell more stuff
              >>>and take away some honest hobbyist designs.
              >>>
              >>>Martin
              >>>
              >>>--- "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
              >>>Dear Martin,
              >>>
              >>>Thank you for your candid concerns. One of the purposes of this
              >>>contest is advertising our products. We make that very clear on our
              >>>site and are not trying to hide it. We have documented our products
              >>>better than anyone else in the industry. Just read one of our manuals
              >>>and you'll see. We don't need to resort to ploys to collect anything.
              >>>
              >>>I realize that the world is full of BS, but there are still people
              >>>out there that are genuinely interested in science and robotics and
              >>>majority of people are honest. It would not be fair to label everyone
              >>>as crooks with sinister intentions.
              >>>
              >>>I hope that you will change your outlook of life for the sake of your
              >>>own well-being.
              >>>
              >>>I also don't know of any contest that gave away freebees! Do you?
              >>>
              >>>martin_j_dubuc wrote:
              >>>
              >>>I don't quite like the spirit of this contest. It looks more like a
              >>>ploy to sell hardware and collect material like pictures, schematics
              >>>and source code to interface to their controllers. Gee, they won't
              >>>even have to document their products, just wait for others to do that
              >>>for them. For less than $2000!
              >>>
              >>>At least the legitimate contests offer free samples of products!
              >>>
              >>>Martin
              >>>
              >>>--- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
              >>>Hi Robotics Enthusiasts,
              >>>
              >>>I have setup a robotics contest that offers $1000 in cash to the
              >>>first place winner. I also have a few robot projects on my site that
              >>>might give others some new and inspiring ideas.
              >>>
              >>>Please check it out and I hope you'll consider entering the contest
              >>>and hopefully win one of the three prizes.
              >>>
              >>>Details can be found at
              >>>http://www.picobytes.com
              >>>
              >>>Have fun.
              >>>
              >>>Mark
            • stephane641
              I guess the morale is: everybody is entitled to an opinion. Live and let live right? ciao, ... this ... publish ... benefit ... list, ... believe ... (and
              Message 6 of 6 , Apr 3, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                I guess the morale is: everybody is entitled to an opinion. Live and
                let live right?

                ciao,

                --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, Aaron Ramsey <aaron@b...> wrote:
                > I'm with Nick and Allen on this. This type of contest is completely
                > above the board and honest. I don't see any real difference between
                this
                > type of thing and a Circuit Cellar contest in fact.... For instance,
                > with a CC contest, you are tied to a particular device from a certain
                > vendor. Circuit Cellar benefits from your entry by being able to
                publish
                > (and then sell magazines). The vendor (Zilog, Microchip, etc...)
                benefit
                > from your entry through the published article also (and then they sell
                > devices).
                >
                > A contest is never without strings.
                >
                > By the way, Mark (servioman) emailed me before posting this to the
                list,
                > to ask if it was alright. This post was in no way spam.
                >
                > So anyhow, I think that Martin (and Stephane-me-too) are off-base here.
                > I don't see how this 'takes away hobbiest designs'. In the end, the
                > designs get published on Mark's website, which increases the amount of
                > knowledge out on the web.
                >
                > Why would anyone run a contest where they didn't benefit in some way?
                >
                > Aaron
                >
                >
                > Nick Cogghe wrote:
                > > I don't fully agree with you two. =)
                > >
                > > This guy has used the same rules/tactics that Circuit Cellar has been
                > > using, except that he is not giving away the hardware for free. I
                believe
                > > that we are spoiled these days.
                > >
                > > Why should a contest that doesn't give free hardware to anybody
                (and their
                > > mother) be any different from another contest that could not
                financially
                > > support giving away thousands of free pieces of hardware.
                > >
                > > Circuit Cellar and which ever partner they have for their current
                contest
                > > demands that you also release the source code for your project
                (from what
                > > I remember at least) thus you are doing the same development for
                them that
                > > you would be doing for PicoBytes.
                > >
                > > If you don't like the fact that you don't get free hardware for the
                > > contest (but still would like to use the hardware), ask for a special
                > > contest discount. If you just don't like the hardware, don't enter.
                > >
                > > I'm not looking to pick a fight (although I am sure if I wanted to
                do a
                > > better job at not picking a fight I should have just kept my mouth
                shut),
                > > I just don't think that this guy is doing anything different in
                the big
                > > picture, than any of the other contest holders.
                > >
                > > Nick
                > >
                > > P.S. : Servioman-> I have known many contests to give away free
                hardware.
                > > The current one is from Circuit Cellar and Zilog. Check it out for
                your
                > > self ->
                > >
                > > http://www.jandspromotions.com/zilog2004/
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On Fri, 2 Apr 2004, stephane641 wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >>I fully agree with you Martin.
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>--- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Martin Dubuc" <captain.quebec@r...>
                > >>wrote:
                > >>
                > >>>I meant to post a response to servioman on ORE_bits, but for some
                > >>>reason, my response did not show up on ORE_bits and I received a
                > >>>response from servioman in my personal mailbox. I have reproduced the
                > >>>email thread below.
                > >>>
                > >>>I still think this is a cheap way for a company to sell more stuff
                > >>>and take away some honest hobbyist designs.
                > >>>
                > >>>Martin
                > >>>
                > >>>--- "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
                > >>>Dear Martin,
                > >>>
                > >>>Thank you for your candid concerns. One of the purposes of this
                > >>>contest is advertising our products. We make that very clear on our
                > >>>site and are not trying to hide it. We have documented our products
                > >>>better than anyone else in the industry. Just read one of our manuals
                > >>>and you'll see. We don't need to resort to ploys to collect anything.
                > >>>
                > >>>I realize that the world is full of BS, but there are still people
                > >>>out there that are genuinely interested in science and robotics and
                > >>>majority of people are honest. It would not be fair to label everyone
                > >>>as crooks with sinister intentions.
                > >>>
                > >>>I hope that you will change your outlook of life for the sake of your
                > >>>own well-being.
                > >>>
                > >>>I also don't know of any contest that gave away freebees! Do you?
                > >>>
                > >>>martin_j_dubuc wrote:
                > >>>
                > >>>I don't quite like the spirit of this contest. It looks more like a
                > >>>ploy to sell hardware and collect material like pictures, schematics
                > >>>and source code to interface to their controllers. Gee, they won't
                > >>>even have to document their products, just wait for others to do that
                > >>>for them. For less than $2000!
                > >>>
                > >>>At least the legitimate contests offer free samples of products!
                > >>>
                > >>>Martin
                > >>>
                > >>>--- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "servioman" <SERVIOMAN@Y...>wrote:
                > >>>Hi Robotics Enthusiasts,
                > >>>
                > >>>I have setup a robotics contest that offers $1000 in cash to the
                > >>>first place winner. I also have a few robot projects on my site that
                > >>>might give others some new and inspiring ideas.
                > >>>
                > >>>Please check it out and I hope you'll consider entering the contest
                > >>>and hopefully win one of the three prizes.
                > >>>
                > >>>Details can be found at
                > >>>http://www.picobytes.com
                > >>>
                > >>>Have fun.
                > >>>
                > >>>Mark
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