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Fwd: pic chips

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  • Darcy Whyte
    What to do with this? http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330456337800&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:CA:1123#ht_1544wt_777 Is this a good deal? It
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 1 4:07 PM


      What to do with this?

      Is this a good deal? It happens to be in Ontario so I was wondering if it was worth buying. And what sort of work is required to make it do something (controlling an LED or servo or something).

      Darcy

    • Paul & Andrea Mumby
      Hey Darcy, if you want a few PIC micros, I have hundreds of them in stock, if you want a couple I can throw them your way for free (depending on model and how
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 1 4:44 PM
        Hey Darcy, if you want a few PIC micros, I have hundreds of them in stock, if you want a couple I can throw them your way for free (depending on model and how many of that model I have of course) lol.

        Let me know what your looking for.

        - Paul

        On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
         



        What to do with this?

        Is this a good deal? It happens to be in Ontario so I was wondering if it was worth buying. And what sort of work is required to make it do something (controlling an LED or servo or something).

        Darcy


      • Darcy Whyte
        Um, whatever s good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them. I don t know anything about them yet so
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 1 4:49 PM
          Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them. 

          I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.


          On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:44 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys@...> wrote:
           

          Hey Darcy, if you want a few PIC micros, I have hundreds of them in stock, if you want a couple I can throw them your way for free (depending on model and how many of that model I have of course) lol.


          Let me know what your looking for.

          - Paul


          On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
           



          What to do with this?

          Is this a good deal? It happens to be in Ontario so I was wondering if it was worth buying. And what sort of work is required to make it do something (controlling an LED or servo or something).

          Darcy



        • picdude777
          Not a really great PIC MCU, kind of expensive for not a lot of features, and really quite obsolescent. The latest 8-pin PIC (if that s what you re really
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 2 5:45 AM
            Not a really great PIC MCU, kind of expensive for not a lot of features, and really quite obsolescent.

            The latest 8-pin PIC (if that's what you're really after) is the 16F1822, which runs as 32MHz without a crystal, has one dedicated PWM channel a full serial UART, and analog inputs, all in 8 pins! They are about $1.25 ea. at Mouser (much less in qty.)

            They can do everything a "big" PIC can do, you just have less pins to work with! ;)


            I actually have designed a tiny breakout board for these SOIC 8-PIN pics that has a SOT23-5 240mA 5V regulator, bypass caps, and standard 0.1 headers, including the UART header for the standard Bluetooth module pinout (the Blutooth module is about twice the size of the board though!)

            I can bring a bare board to the meeting if anyone is interested.



            Cool!

            --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
            >
            > What to do with this?
            >
            > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330456337800&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:CA:1123#ht_1544wt_777
            >
            > Is this a good deal? It happens to be in Ontario so I was wondering if it
            > was worth buying. And what sort of work is required to make it do something
            > (controlling an LED or servo or something).
            >
            > Darcy
            >
          • Aaron Ramsey
            Agreed. Microchip also has an amazing free sample program if anyone is looking at getting their feet wet with microprocessors. No need to eBay those older
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 2 6:22 AM
              Agreed. Microchip also has an amazing free sample program if anyone is looking at getting their feet wet with microprocessors. No need to eBay those older ones. 

              Aaron 

              On 2011-08-02, at 7:45 AM, "picdude777" <fl024@...> wrote:

               

              Not a really great PIC MCU, kind of expensive for not a lot of features, and really quite obsolescent.

              The latest 8-pin PIC (if that's what you're really after) is the 16F1822, which runs as 32MHz without a crystal, has one dedicated PWM channel a full serial UART, and analog inputs, all in 8 pins! They are about $1.25 ea. at Mouser (much less in qty.)

              They can do everything a "big" PIC can do, you just have less pins to work with! ;)

              I actually have designed a tiny breakout board for these SOIC 8-PIN pics that has a SOT23-5 240mA 5V regulator, bypass caps, and standard 0.1 headers, including the UART header for the standard Bluetooth module pinout (the Blutooth module is about twice the size of the board though!)

              I can bring a bare board to the meeting if anyone is interested.

              Cool!

              --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
              >
              > What to do with this?
              >
              > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330456337800&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:CA:1123#ht_1544wt_777
              >
              > Is this a good deal? It happens to be in Ontario so I was wondering if it
              > was worth buying. And what sort of work is required to make it do something
              > (controlling an LED or servo or something).
              >
              > Darcy
              >

            • Darcy Whyte
              I took a look at the sample program at microchip. I d probably have to invest a lot of time to figure out what to get. Perhaps for my own interests I should
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 2 9:46 AM
                I took a look at the sample program at microchip.

                I'd probably have to invest a lot of time to figure out what to get.

                Perhaps for my own interests I should wait till a project comes forward that can't be easily solved with arduino.


                On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 9:22 AM, Aaron Ramsey <aaron@...> wrote:
                 

                Agreed. Microchip also has an amazing free sample program if anyone is looking at getting their feet wet with microprocessors. No need to eBay those older ones. 

                Aaron 


                On 2011-08-02, at 7:45 AM, "picdude777" <fl024@...> wrote:

                 

                Not a really great PIC MCU, kind of expensive for not a lot of features, and really quite obsolescent.

                The latest 8-pin PIC (if that's what you're really after) is the 16F1822, which runs as 32MHz without a crystal, has one dedicated PWM channel a full serial UART, and analog inputs, all in 8 pins! They are about $1.25 ea. at Mouser (much less in qty.)

                They can do everything a "big" PIC can do, you just have less pins to work with! ;)

                I actually have designed a tiny breakout board for these SOIC 8-PIN pics that has a SOT23-5 240mA 5V regulator, bypass caps, and standard 0.1 headers, including the UART header for the standard Bluetooth module pinout (the Blutooth module is about twice the size of the board though!)

                I can bring a bare board to the meeting if anyone is interested.

                Cool!

                --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                >
                > What to do with this?
                >
                > http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330456337800&ssPageName=ADME:B:WNASIF:CA:1123#ht_1544wt_777
                >
                > Is this a good deal? It happens to be in Ontario so I was wondering if it
                > was worth buying. And what sort of work is required to make it do something
                > (controlling an LED or servo or something).
                >
                > Darcy
                >


              • michael taylor
                ... For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to their low-end series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I d look at their
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 2 9:50 AM
                  On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                  > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.

                  For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                  their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                  look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                  with a nice mix of features.

                  Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                  One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                  a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                  rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                  are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                  days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).

                  The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                  projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                  since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                  looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                  get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                  which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.

                  Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                  and surface mount.

                  The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                  CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                  Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                  it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                  the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                  allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                  space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                  most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                  These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                  instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).

                  I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                  with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                  of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                  programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                  <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.

                  Good luck and enjoy,
                  Michael
                • Paul & Andrea Mumby
                  I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the 2525 is t little brother). Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 2 10:08 AM
                    I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the 2525 is't little brother). 

                    Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using them. And they are fairly robust.

                    I also have several kicking around of both of those models if you want to try some out (in both surface mount and DIP I believe)

                    - Paul

                    On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM, michael taylor <mctylr@...> wrote:
                     

                    On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                    > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.

                    For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                    their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                    look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                    with a nice mix of features.

                    Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                    One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                    a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                    rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                    are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                    days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).

                    The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                    projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                    since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                    looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                    get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                    which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.

                    Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                    and surface mount.

                    The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                    CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                    Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                    it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                    the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                    allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                    space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                    most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                    These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                    instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).

                    I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                    with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                    of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                    programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                    <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.

                    Good luck and enjoy,
                    Michael


                  • Jean-Marc LeBlanc
                    you can sample them free form microchip too Jean-Marc Le Blanc ... Do you pine for the nice days of Minix-1.1, when men were men and wrote their own device
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 2 10:11 AM
                      you can sample them free form microchip too

                      Jean-Marc Le Blanc
                      ---

                      "Do you pine for the nice days of Minix-1.1, when men were men and wrote their own device drivers?" Linus Torvalds



                      On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys@...> wrote:
                       

                      I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the 2525 is't little brother). 


                      Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using them. And they are fairly robust.

                      I also have several kicking around of both of those models if you want to try some out (in both surface mount and DIP I believe)

                      - Paul


                      On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM, michael taylor <mctylr@...> wrote:
                       

                      On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                      > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.

                      For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                      their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                      look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                      with a nice mix of features.

                      Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                      One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                      a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                      rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                      are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                      days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).

                      The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                      projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                      since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                      looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                      get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                      which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.

                      Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                      and surface mount.

                      The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                      CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                      Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                      it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                      the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                      allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                      space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                      most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                      These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                      instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).

                      I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                      with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                      of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                      programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                      <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.

                      Good luck and enjoy,
                      Michael



                    • Darcy Whyte
                      Okay Paul, that s cool. I ll try those on for size. When and where to pick up?
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 2 10:21 AM
                        Okay Paul, that's cool. I'll try those on for size.

                        When and where to pick up? 



                        On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys@...> wrote:
                         

                        I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the 2525 is't little brother). 


                        Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using them. And they are fairly robust.

                        I also have several kicking around of both of those models if you want to try some out (in both surface mount and DIP I believe)

                        - Paul


                        On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM, michael taylor <mctylr@...> wrote:
                         

                        On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                        > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.

                        For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                        their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                        look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                        with a nice mix of features.

                        Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                        One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                        a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                        rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                        are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                        days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).

                        The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                        projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                        since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                        looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                        get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                        which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.

                        Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                        and surface mount.

                        The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                        CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                        Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                        it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                        the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                        allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                        space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                        most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                        These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                        instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).

                        I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                        with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                        of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                        programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                        <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.

                        Good luck and enjoy,
                        Michael



                      • Paul & Andrea Mumby
                        I m a bit swamped this week still so no time to make it out to modlab. But your welcome to meet me at the RealDecoy office sometime this week, or swing by my
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 2 10:34 AM
                          I'm a bit swamped this week still so no time to make it out to modlab. But your welcome to meet me at the RealDecoy office sometime this week, or swing by my place and pick them up.

                          Just shoot me an email and let me know which day and where, so I can be get the chips out for you and have them ready for you to pick up.

                          - Paul

                          On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:21 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                           

                          Okay Paul, that's cool. I'll try those on for size.


                          When and where to pick up? 



                          On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:08 PM, Paul & Andrea Mumby <themumbys@...> wrote:
                           

                          I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the 2525 is't little brother). 


                          Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using them. And they are fairly robust.

                          I also have several kicking around of both of those models if you want to try some out (in both surface mount and DIP I believe)

                          - Paul


                          On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM, michael taylor <mctylr@...> wrote:
                           

                          On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                          > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.

                          For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                          their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                          look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                          with a nice mix of features.

                          Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                          One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                          a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                          rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                          are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                          days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).

                          The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                          projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                          since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                          looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                          get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                          which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.

                          Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                          and surface mount.

                          The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                          CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                          Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                          it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                          the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                          allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                          space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                          most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                          These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                          instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).

                          I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                          with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                          of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                          programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                          <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.

                          Good luck and enjoy,
                          Michael




                        • picdude777
                          If you re searching the Web for projects, you ll find that the bigger brother of the 16F628, the 16F648A is incredibly popular. (it is more or less
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 2 11:31 AM
                            If you're searching the Web for projects, you'll find that the "bigger" brother of the 16F628, the 16F648A is incredibly popular. (it is more or less identical to the '628, just has double the Flash program space, and it's a bit "newer")

                            Two reasons for it's popularity was it had a 4MHz internal oscillator (no crystals), and was one of the first low-cost, low pin-count MCUs to offer a serial UART.

                            If anyone is interested, I have lots of little 5x5cm development boards designed for the DIP '628/648A that have the I/O broken out to 3-pin headers, an ICSP header, and an interface header for a 2x16 LCD panel.


                            FYI, the new pin-compatible version of the '648A family is the 16F 1827/1847, with a 32MHz internal oscillator, two PWM channels, I2C, and all sorts of other crazy stuff in an 18-pin package!

                            Also, I made a mistake with the tiny 8-pin guy, the proper part number is the 12F1822, not 16F! :(



                            Very cool!


                            --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Andrea Mumby" <themumbys@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the 2525
                            > is't little brother).
                            >
                            > Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using them. And they
                            > are fairly robust.
                            >
                            > I also have several kicking around of both of those models if you want to
                            > try some out (in both surface mount and DIP I believe)
                            >
                            > - Paul
                            >
                            > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM, michael taylor <mctylr@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > **
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are
                            > > affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                            > > > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.
                            > >
                            > > For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                            > > their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                            > > look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                            > > with a nice mix of features.
                            > >
                            > > Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                            > > One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                            > > a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                            > > rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                            > > are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                            > > days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).
                            > >
                            > > The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                            > > projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                            > > since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                            > > looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                            > > get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                            > > which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.
                            > >
                            > > Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                            > > and surface mount.
                            > >
                            > > The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                            > > CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                            > > Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                            > > it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                            > > the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                            > > allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                            > > space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                            > > most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                            > > These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                            > > instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).
                            > >
                            > > I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                            > > with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                            > > of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                            > > programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                            > > <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.
                            > >
                            > > Good luck and enjoy,
                            > > Michael
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                          • Paul & Andrea Mumby
                            I thought the 628 also has an internal 4Mhz OSC? Or am I mistaken on that one? (honestly been a while since I ve worked on pic projects, arduino/.net micro
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 2 11:35 AM
                              I thought the 628 also has an internal 4Mhz OSC? Or am I mistaken on that one? (honestly been a while since I've worked on pic projects, arduino/.net micro have been way too cool lately and much easier for rapid project development. PIC is nicer for compact/efficient projects though for sure).

                              - Paul

                              On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 2:31 PM, picdude777 <fl024@...> wrote:
                               

                              If you're searching the Web for projects, you'll find that the "bigger" brother of the 16F628, the 16F648A is incredibly popular. (it is more or less identical to the '628, just has double the Flash program space, and it's a bit "newer")

                              Two reasons for it's popularity was it had a 4MHz internal oscillator (no crystals), and was one of the first low-cost, low pin-count MCUs to offer a serial UART.

                              If anyone is interested, I have lots of little 5x5cm development boards designed for the DIP '628/648A that have the I/O broken out to 3-pin headers, an ICSP header, and an interface header for a 2x16 LCD panel.

                              FYI, the new pin-compatible version of the '648A family is the 16F 1827/1847, with a 32MHz internal oscillator, two PWM channels, I2C, and all sorts of other crazy stuff in an 18-pin package!

                              Also, I made a mistake with the tiny 8-pin guy, the proper part number is the 12F1822, not 16F! :(

                              Very cool!



                              --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Andrea Mumby" <themumbys@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the 2525
                              > is't little brother).
                              >
                              > Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using them. And they
                              > are fairly robust.
                              >
                              > I also have several kicking around of both of those models if you want to
                              > try some out (in both surface mount and DIP I believe)
                              >
                              > - Paul
                              >
                              > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM, michael taylor <mctylr@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > **

                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are
                              > > affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                              > > > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.
                              > >
                              > > For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                              > > their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                              > > look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                              > > with a nice mix of features.
                              > >
                              > > Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                              > > One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                              > > a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                              > > rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                              > > are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                              > > days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).
                              > >
                              > > The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                              > > projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                              > > since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                              > > looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                              > > get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                              > > which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.
                              > >
                              > > Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                              > > and surface mount.
                              > >
                              > > The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                              > > CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                              > > Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                              > > it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                              > > the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                              > > allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                              > > space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                              > > most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                              > > These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                              > > instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).
                              > >
                              > > I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                              > > with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                              > > of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                              > > programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                              > > <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.
                              > >
                              > > Good luck and enjoy,
                              > > Michael
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >


                            • picdude777
                              Yup, the 628 is pretty much identical, along with the 4MHz intosc. Just less flash space and a slightly different programming algorithm, I think. It s just
                              Message 14 of 14 , Aug 2 11:54 AM
                                Yup, the '628 is pretty much identical, along with the 4MHz intosc. Just less flash space and a slightly different programming algorithm, I think.

                                It's just that a Google search for the '648A versus the '628 will probably yield more project results.

                                For anyone that wants to play with both the 16F and 18F series PIC chips, the JAL v2 environment offers a seamless way to work with either family, and is quite "Arduino-like" in it's ways to declare pin functions, etc. in plain English.


                                Here's two links:

                                http://code.google.com/p/jallib/

                                http://code.google.com/p/jaledit/downloads/detail?name=JALPack_2.4m_0.5_0.9.0.9.exe


                                Worth a look...


                                --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Andrea Mumby" <themumbys@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I thought the 628 also has an internal 4Mhz OSC? Or am I mistaken on that
                                > one? (honestly been a while since I've worked on pic projects, arduino/.net
                                > micro have been way too cool lately and much easier for rapid project
                                > development. PIC is nicer for compact/efficient projects though for sure).
                                >
                                > - Paul
                                >
                                > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 2:31 PM, picdude777 <fl024@...>wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > If you're searching the Web for projects, you'll find that the "bigger"
                                > > brother of the 16F628, the 16F648A is incredibly popular. (it is more or
                                > > less identical to the '628, just has double the Flash program space, and
                                > > it's a bit "newer")
                                > >
                                > > Two reasons for it's popularity was it had a 4MHz internal oscillator (no
                                > > crystals), and was one of the first low-cost, low pin-count MCUs to offer a
                                > > serial UART.
                                > >
                                > > If anyone is interested, I have lots of little 5x5cm development boards
                                > > designed for the DIP '628/648A that have the I/O broken out to 3-pin
                                > > headers, an ICSP header, and an interface header for a 2x16 LCD panel.
                                > >
                                > > FYI, the new pin-compatible version of the '648A family is the 16F
                                > > 1827/1847, with a 32MHz internal oscillator, two PWM channels, I2C, and all
                                > > sorts of other crazy stuff in an 18-pin package!
                                > >
                                > > Also, I made a mistake with the tiny 8-pin guy, the proper part number is
                                > > the 12F1822, not 16F! :(
                                > >
                                > > Very cool!
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > --- In ORE_bits@yahoogroups.com, "Paul & Andrea Mumby" <themumbys@>
                                > > wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > I would second the reccomendation of the 16F628 and the 18F2550 (or the
                                > > 2525
                                > > > is't little brother).
                                > > >
                                > > > Both are fairly common, many projects floating around using them. And
                                > > they
                                > > > are fairly robust.
                                > > >
                                > > > I also have several kicking around of both of those models if you want to
                                > > > try some out (in both surface mount and DIP I believe)
                                > > >
                                > > > - Paul
                                > > >
                                > > > On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 12:50 PM, michael taylor <mctylr@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > > > **
                                > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > > On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Darcy Whyte <darcy@> wrote:
                                > > > > >
                                > > > > > Um, whatever's good to start off with. Perhaps a couple that are
                                > > > > affordable so if it works out I can buy more of them.
                                > > > > > I don't know anything about them yet so I'll just depend on advice.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > For amateur one-off builds and prototypes, there is no need to go to
                                > > > > their "low-end" series (10Fxxx to 12xxx) - most of the time, so I'd
                                > > > > look at their mid-range, 16Fxxx and 18Fxxx for good 8-bit processors
                                > > > > with a nice mix of features.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Make sure you get Flash programmable ones, not the
                                > > > > One-Time-Programmables, OTP, like I did when I was getting started (on
                                > > > > a budget and trying to shave a few too many pennies). These have 'C'
                                > > > > rather than 'F', and also skip the fairly rare and expensive xxCxxx/JW
                                > > > > are UV-erasable EPROM. -- I'm assuming this is less of an issue these
                                > > > > days, but I thought I'd mention it (circa 16F/C84).
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The mentioned 16F1822 sounds nice, but too few pins for more complex
                                > > > > projects requiring multiple I/O pins (like a robot). It's been a while
                                > > > > since I've looked at the PIC processors, but the last time I did some
                                > > > > looking, the 16F628(A) is/was a pretty common and quite cheap one to
                                > > > > get started with. I normally went with the A or without depending on
                                > > > > which was cheaper, I don't think there were major differences.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Another choice might be the 28-pin PIC18F2550 available in plastic DIP
                                > > > > and surface mount.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > The most important thing (IMHO) to learn about PIC chips is that the
                                > > > > CPU is designed based on a Harvard architecture rather than the von
                                > > > > Neumann, or the more common Modified Harvard architecture. This means
                                > > > > it has separate memory and buses for data and program (code), whereas
                                > > > > the von Neumann is more akin to the fictional Turing machine which
                                > > > > allows self-modifying code as it can read/write to the single memory
                                > > > > space (the running program can modify its own code as it is running,
                                > > > > most common these days in JIT compiler/interpreter optimization).
                                > > > > These are also very much RISC processors with only 35 assembly
                                > > > > instructions (compared to 300-ish for x86).
                                > > > >
                                > > > > I'll let others recommend languages and tools. MIcrochip's MPLAB comes
                                > > > > with just assembly, but you can download the free student/demo version
                                > > > > of their C compiler(s. There is also a decent size community of BASIC
                                > > > > programmers on the PIC, I believe mostly using PIC BASIC,
                                > > > > <http://store.melabs.com/cat/PBP.html>.
                                > > > >
                                > > > > Good luck and enjoy,
                                > > > > Michael
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > > >
                                > > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
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