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USA narrow gauge

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  • John Clutterbuck
    It s been a bit quiet of late so I thought I d toss a pebble into the pond so to speak. Me and my wife are off in a few days for our long trip around the
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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      It's been a bit quiet of late so I thought I'd toss a pebble into the
      pond so to speak.

      Me and my wife are off in a few days for our long trip around the
      Southwest USA so I may not be able to post much (I'll ignore the
      cheers). I'm not sure how much railway interest we will get to see. I
      would like to get over to see some of the Colorado systems but that
      may prove too much driving. I think I'll see even less railway models
      which is a shame as I understand that real US narrow gauge modelling
      is something worth seeing.

      All this has led me to think of an interesting and perhaps
      controversial theory. I surmise that it is quite hard to make a
      convincing model of a real (or plausible might have been) railway of
      your own country, as there will be legions of observers who will know
      that such and such is not right or would not have been done that way.
      If this is true then the opposite must also be true in that it is easy
      to make a model of a foreign railway, as most observers (also)
      wouldn't know what's wrong with it and are more likely to think it's a
      wonderful model. Perhaps this explains the popularity of On30 over
      here even though most of the prototypes were either 2' or 3' and
      neither OO/HO or crazy track are very good representations of real US
      30" track. Of course having RTR equipment helps explain it too.

      So although I will have a good look if I do find some Narrow Gauge
      models, rest assured I won't be tempted to whip the wallet out, and
      will be staying firmly with O-14 (and S7) for a long while yet.

      I'll check the flack this has caused just before I leave :)

      All the best
      John
    • William Uffelman
      Where are you flying into to bein your drive? If Denver then a stop at Cabooose Hobbies is necessary -- some great models and dioramas on display. A run up the
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        Where are you flying into to bein your drive?

        If Denver then a stop at Cabooose Hobbies is necessary -- some great models and dioramas on display. A run up the hill to Golden gets you to the Colorado RR Museum with prototype and models, further up the hill to the Georgetown Loop for a ride behind a 100+ year old loco. Southwest from Denver you can follow the ROW of the Denver South Park and Pacific (C&S) and see various remaining structures and work your way over to cross to Silverton through the Red Mountain mining district then dro into Durango. I made the Denver to Durango swing in one day in July -- admittedly it was daylight longer then but there are lots of NG trains on display and train related things to see.

        If flying into New Mexico go up to Santa Fe and trace the ROW of the D&RGW northbound starting at the Mexican restaurant in the old station. I have lots of photos to compare then and now.

        If into Phoenix stop at Coronado Sxcale Modles admire their handiwork and they will tell you where to find remnants of the NG mining railroads.

        Bill Uffelman
        Las Vegas NV

        John Clutterbuck <jclutterbuck2001@...> wrote:
        It's been a bit quiet of late so I thought I'd toss a pebble into the
        pond so to speak.

        Me and my wife are off in a few days for our long trip around the
        Southwest USA so I may not be able to post much (I'll ignore the
        cheers). I'm not sure how much railway interest we will get to see. I
        would like to get over to see some of the Colorado systems but that
        may prove too much driving. I think I'll see even less railway models
        which is a shame as I understand that real US narrow gauge modelling
        is something worth seeing.

        All this has led me to think of an interesting and perhaps
        controversial theory. I surmise that it is quite hard to make a
        convincing model of a real (or plausible might have been) railway of
        your own country, as there will be legions of observers who will know
        that such and such is not right or would not have been done that way.
        If this is true then the opposite must also be true in that it is easy
        to make a model of a foreign railway, as most observers (also)
        wouldn't know what's wrong with it and are more likely to think it's a
        wonderful model. Perhaps this explains the popularity of On30 over
        here even though most of the prototypes were either 2' or 3' and
        neither OO/HO or crazy track are very good representations of real US
        30" track. Of course having RTR equipment helps explain it too.

        So although I will have a good look if I do find some Narrow Gauge
        models, rest assured I won't be tempted to whip the wallet out, and
        will be staying firmly with O-14 (and S7) for a long while yet.

        I'll check the flack this has caused just before I leave :)

        All the best
        John






        ---------------------------------
        Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • John Clutterbuck
        Hi Bill, We re flying in to LA and will have 2 nights there. We plan to drive due East towards Flagstaff and do things like Grand Canyon, Monument Valley,
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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          Hi Bill,

          We're flying in to LA and will have 2 nights there. We plan to drive
          due East towards Flagstaff and do things like Grand Canyon, Monument
          Valley, Bryce Canyon etc over 7-9 days. We may get down to Phoenix and
          possibly as far east as Durango. We will then loop back and see Lake
          Page, Hoover Dam, etc. and will stay at least one night in Las Vegas.
          Thereafter we will head NW up to Yosemite and possibly up to Reno
          (also Grass Valley) and finally end up in San Francisco for 2 nights
          before flying home. Its a long drive and we may change our plans if we
          find it too much. The only things booked are the flights, the 2 nights
          at each end and the hire car.

          My wife of course wants to see the sights and does not quite share my
          enthusiasm for spending hours tracing old RR routes! If there's a good
          shopping mall near a model store than that's not so bad. I'll look up
          Coronado Scale Models - are there any other good stores on our route?

          John

          --- In O-14@yahoogroups.com, William Uffelman <ufffam@...> wrote:
          >
          > Where are you flying into to bein your drive?
          >
          > If Denver then a stop at Cabooose Hobbies is necessary -- some
          great models and dioramas on display. A run up the hill to Golden gets
          you to the Colorado RR Museum with prototype and models, further up
          the hill to the Georgetown Loop for a ride behind a 100+ year old
          loco. Southwest from Denver you can follow the ROW of the Denver South
          Park and Pacific (C&S) and see various remaining structures and work
          your way over to cross to Silverton through the Red Mountain mining
          district then dro into Durango. I made the Denver to Durango swing in
          one day in July -- admittedly it was daylight longer then but there
          are lots of NG trains on display and train related things to see.
          >
          > If flying into New Mexico go up to Santa Fe and trace the ROW of
          the D&RGW northbound starting at the Mexican restaurant in the old
          station. I have lots of photos to compare then and now.
          >
          > If into Phoenix stop at Coronado Sxcale Modles admire their
          handiwork and they will tell you where to find remnants of the NG
          mining railroads.
          >
          > Bill Uffelman
          > Las Vegas NV
          >
          > John Clutterbuck <jclutterbuck2001@...> wrote:
          > It's been a bit quiet of late so I thought I'd toss a
          pebble into the
          > pond so to speak.
          >
          > Me and my wife are off in a few days for our long trip around the
          > Southwest USA so I may not be able to post much (I'll ignore the
          > cheers). I'm not sure how much railway interest we will get to see. I
          > would like to get over to see some of the Colorado systems but that
          > may prove too much driving. I think I'll see even less railway models
          > which is a shame as I understand that real US narrow gauge modelling
          > is something worth seeing.
          >
          > All this has led me to think of an interesting and perhaps
          > controversial theory. I surmise that it is quite hard to make a
          > convincing model of a real (or plausible might have been) railway of
          > your own country, as there will be legions of observers who will know
          > that such and such is not right or would not have been done that way.
          > If this is true then the opposite must also be true in that it is easy
          > to make a model of a foreign railway, as most observers (also)
          > wouldn't know what's wrong with it and are more likely to think it's a
          > wonderful model. Perhaps this explains the popularity of On30 over
          > here even though most of the prototypes were either 2' or 3' and
          > neither OO/HO or crazy track are very good representations of real US
          > 30" track. Of course having RTR equipment helps explain it too.
          >
          > So although I will have a good look if I do find some Narrow Gauge
          > models, rest assured I won't be tempted to whip the wallet out, and
          > will be staying firmly with O-14 (and S7) for a long while yet.
          >
          > I'll check the flack this has caused just before I leave :)
          >
          > All the best
          > John
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ---------------------------------
          > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:
          mail, news, photos & more.
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • MARC WITTEN
          Hi John, Lucky B####R off to the states,trains aswell as Trams,my other passion nice tramcars i.e PCC s in San Francisco aswell as there famous Cable Cars,have
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi John,

            Lucky B####R off to the states,trains aswell as Trams,my other passion nice tramcars i.e PCC's in San Francisco aswell as there famous Cable Cars,have a nice time,

            regards Marc

            (moming 07 )



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: John Clutterbuck <jclutterbuck2001@...>
            To: O-14@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, 6 October, 2007 3:10:49 PM
            Subject: [O-14] Re: USA narrow gauge

            Hi Bill,

            We're flying in to LA and will have 2 nights there. We plan to drive
            due East towards Flagstaff and do things like Grand Canyon, Monument
            Valley, Bryce Canyon etc over 7-9 days. We may get down to Phoenix and
            possibly as far east as Durango. We will then loop back and see Lake
            Page, Hoover Dam, etc. and will stay at least one night in Las Vegas.
            Thereafter we will head NW up to Yosemite and possibly up to Reno
            (also Grass Valley) and finally end up in San Francisco for 2 nights
            before flying home. Its a long drive and we may change our plans if we
            find it too much. The only things booked are the flights, the 2 nights
            at each end and the hire car.

            My wife of course wants to see the sights and does not quite share my
            enthusiasm for spending hours tracing old RR routes! If there's a good
            shopping mall near a model store than that's not so bad. I'll look up
            Coronado Scale Models - are there any other good stores on our route?

            John

            --- In O-14@yahoogroups. com, William Uffelman <ufffam@...> wrote:
            >
            > Where are you flying into to bein your drive?
            >
            > If Denver then a stop at Cabooose Hobbies is necessary -- some
            great models and dioramas on display. A run up the hill to Golden gets
            you to the Colorado RR Museum with prototype and models, further up
            the hill to the Georgetown Loop for a ride behind a 100+ year old
            loco. Southwest from Denver you can follow the ROW of the Denver South
            Park and Pacific (C&S) and see various remaining structures and work
            your way over to cross to Silverton through the Red Mountain mining
            district then dro into Durango. I made the Denver to Durango swing in
            one day in July -- admittedly it was daylight longer then but there
            are lots of NG trains on display and train related things to see.
            >
            > If flying into New Mexico go up to Santa Fe and trace the ROW of
            the D&RGW northbound starting at the Mexican restaurant in the old
            station. I have lots of photos to compare then and now.
            >
            > If into Phoenix stop at Coronado Sxcale Modles admire their
            handiwork and they will tell you where to find remnants of the NG
            mining railroads.
            >
            > Bill Uffelman
            > Las Vegas NV
            >
            > John Clutterbuck <jclutterbuck2001@ ...> wrote:
            > It's been a bit quiet of late so I thought I'd toss a
            pebble into the
            > pond so to speak.
            >
            > Me and my wife are off in a few days for our long trip around the
            > Southwest USA so I may not be able to post much (I'll ignore the
            > cheers). I'm not sure how much railway interest we will get to see. I
            > would like to get over to see some of the Colorado systems but that
            > may prove too much driving. I think I'll see even less railway models
            > which is a shame as I understand that real US narrow gauge modelling
            > is something worth seeing.
            >
            > All this has led me to think of an interesting and perhaps
            > controversial theory. I surmise that it is quite hard to make a
            > convincing model of a real (or plausible might have been) railway of
            > your own country, as there will be legions of observers who will know
            > that such and such is not right or would not have been done that way.
            > If this is true then the opposite must also be true in that it is easy
            > to make a model of a foreign railway, as most observers (also)
            > wouldn't know what's wrong with it and are more likely to think it's a
            > wonderful model. Perhaps this explains the popularity of On30 over
            > here even though most of the prototypes were either 2' or 3' and
            > neither OO/HO or crazy track are very good representations of real US
            > 30" track. Of course having RTR equipment helps explain it too.
            >
            > So although I will have a good look if I do find some Narrow Gauge
            > models, rest assured I won't be tempted to whip the wallet out, and
            > will be staying firmly with O-14 (and S7) for a long while yet.
            >
            > I'll check the flack this has caused just before I leave :)
            >
            > All the best
            > John
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------ --------- --------- ---
            > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:
            mail, news, photos & more.
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • William Uffelman
            Coronado in Phoenix, High Sierra in Reno, Reed s in La Mesa/San Diego CA and shop in Santa Clara CA are probably the only ones worth the gas and I haven t been
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 6, 2007
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              Coronado in Phoenix, High Sierra in Reno, Reed's in La Mesa/San Diego CA and shop in Santa Clara CA are probably the only ones worth the gas and I haven't been to Reed's in a long time. There is nothing in Las Vegas unless you are into an On30/large scale warehouse store with no parts or magazines.

              I suggest you enjoy the scenery and let the model railroading fall where it may.

              Do take the time to see Bryce Canyon and Zion NP, if you cross into Utah via the western end of Lake Powell you will be on the road to the east end of the park -- great photo spots and lots of big game animals.

              Hoover Dam is a short midday side trip from Las Vegas if you come down Interstate 15 from Utah after Bryce and Zion.


              It is an all day drive to Reno from LV -- using US 395 after crossing from NV to CA you can see SP NG country. Stop at Nevada RR Museum at Carson City on your way to Reno. Drive east on US 50 and enter Virginia City following route of V&T Rwy from the south then exit the north end to get down to Reno vis the old wagon road route. Swing through Lake Tahoe from Reno on Mt Rose Highway then stay on north side of lake to Tahoe City, then down the river to Truckee -- that is the route of the Lake Tahoe NG. Take Interstate 80 west through Sacramento to SF -- stop at old town Sac and see the RR museum. Between Sac and SF you can cut over to Napa & Sonoma for a taste of wine country and enter SF over the Golden Gate on US 101. Ride a cable car or two in SF.

              The list goes on!

              Bill







              MARC WITTEN <Marc.Witten@...> wrote:
              Hi John,

              Lucky B####R off to the states,trains aswell as Trams,my other passion nice tramcars i.e PCC's in San Francisco aswell as there famous Cable Cars,have a nice time,

              regards Marc

              (moming 07 )

              ----- Original Message ----
              From: John Clutterbuck <jclutterbuck2001@...>
              To: O-14@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Saturday, 6 October, 2007 3:10:49 PM
              Subject: [O-14] Re: USA narrow gauge

              Hi Bill,

              We're flying in to LA and will have 2 nights there. We plan to drive
              due East towards Flagstaff and do things like Grand Canyon, Monument
              Valley, Bryce Canyon etc over 7-9 days. We may get down to Phoenix and
              possibly as far east as Durango. We will then loop back and see Lake
              Page, Hoover Dam, etc. and will stay at least one night in Las Vegas.
              Thereafter we will head NW up to Yosemite and possibly up to Reno
              (also Grass Valley) and finally end up in San Francisco for 2 nights
              before flying home. Its a long drive and we may change our plans if we
              find it too much. The only things booked are the flights, the 2 nights
              at each end and the hire car.

              My wife of course wants to see the sights and does not quite share my
              enthusiasm for spending hours tracing old RR routes! If there's a good
              shopping mall near a model store than that's not so bad. I'll look up
              Coronado Scale Models - are there any other good stores on our route?

              John

              --- In O-14@yahoogroups. com, William Uffelman <ufffam@...> wrote:
              >
              > Where are you flying into to bein your drive?
              >
              > If Denver then a stop at Cabooose Hobbies is necessary -- some
              great models and dioramas on display. A run up the hill to Golden gets
              you to the Colorado RR Museum with prototype and models, further up
              the hill to the Georgetown Loop for a ride behind a 100+ year old
              loco. Southwest from Denver you can follow the ROW of the Denver South
              Park and Pacific (C&S) and see various remaining structures and work
              your way over to cross to Silverton through the Red Mountain mining
              district then dro into Durango. I made the Denver to Durango swing in
              one day in July -- admittedly it was daylight longer then but there
              are lots of NG trains on display and train related things to see.
              >
              > If flying into New Mexico go up to Santa Fe and trace the ROW of
              the D&RGW northbound starting at the Mexican restaurant in the old
              station. I have lots of photos to compare then and now.
              >
              > If into Phoenix stop at Coronado Sxcale Modles admire their
              handiwork and they will tell you where to find remnants of the NG
              mining railroads.
              >
              > Bill Uffelman
              > Las Vegas NV
              >
              > John Clutterbuck <jclutterbuck2001@ ...> wrote:
              > It's been a bit quiet of late so I thought I'd toss a
              pebble into the
              > pond so to speak.
              >
              > Me and my wife are off in a few days for our long trip around the
              > Southwest USA so I may not be able to post much (I'll ignore the
              > cheers). I'm not sure how much railway interest we will get to see. I
              > would like to get over to see some of the Colorado systems but that
              > may prove too much driving. I think I'll see even less railway models
              > which is a shame as I understand that real US narrow gauge modelling
              > is something worth seeing.
              >
              > All this has led me to think of an interesting and perhaps
              > controversial theory. I surmise that it is quite hard to make a
              > convincing model of a real (or plausible might have been) railway of
              > your own country, as there will be legions of observers who will know
              > that such and such is not right or would not have been done that way.
              > If this is true then the opposite must also be true in that it is easy
              > to make a model of a foreign railway, as most observers (also)
              > wouldn't know what's wrong with it and are more likely to think it's a
              > wonderful model. Perhaps this explains the popularity of On30 over
              > here even though most of the prototypes were either 2' or 3' and
              > neither OO/HO or crazy track are very good representations of real US
              > 30" track. Of course having RTR equipment helps explain it too.
              >
              > So although I will have a good look if I do find some Narrow Gauge
              > models, rest assured I won't be tempted to whip the wallet out, and
              > will be staying firmly with O-14 (and S7) for a long while yet.
              >
              > I'll check the flack this has caused just before I leave :)
              >
              > All the best
              > John
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
              > Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket:
              mail, news, photos & more.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






              ---------------------------------
              Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Clutterbuck
              This is great info Bill. I ve added the sites to my trip planner (Google MyMaps). Thanks John ... Diego CA and shop in Santa Clara CA are probably the only
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 7, 2007
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                This is great info Bill.

                I've added the sites to my trip planner (Google MyMaps).

                Thanks
                John


                --- In O-14@yahoogroups.com, William Uffelman <ufffam@...> wrote:
                >
                > Coronado in Phoenix, High Sierra in Reno, Reed's in La Mesa/San
                Diego CA and shop in Santa Clara CA are probably the only ones worth
                the gas and I haven't been to Reed's in a long time. There is nothing
                in Las Vegas unless you are into an On30/large scale warehouse store
                with no parts or magazines.
                >
                > I suggest you enjoy the scenery and let the model railroading fall
                where it may.
                >
                > Do take the time to see Bryce Canyon and Zion NP, if you cross
                into Utah via the western end of Lake Powell you will be on the road
                to the east end of the park -- great photo spots and lots of big game
                animals.
                >
                > Hoover Dam is a short midday side trip from Las Vegas if you come
                down Interstate 15 from Utah after Bryce and Zion.
                >
                >
                > It is an all day drive to Reno from LV -- using US 395 after
                crossing from NV to CA you can see SP NG country. Stop at Nevada RR
                Museum at Carson City on your way to Reno. Drive east on US 50 and
                enter Virginia City following route of V&T Rwy from the south then
                exit the north end to get down to Reno vis the old wagon road route.
                Swing through Lake Tahoe from Reno on Mt Rose Highway then stay on
                north side of lake to Tahoe City, then down the river to Truckee --
                that is the route of the Lake Tahoe NG. Take Interstate 80 west
                through Sacramento to SF -- stop at old town Sac and see the RR
                museum. Between Sac and SF you can cut over to Napa & Sonoma for a
                taste of wine country and enter SF over the Golden Gate on US 101.
                Ride a cable car or two in SF.
              • John Dimitrievich
                Dear John, I think you ll find Monday s Experts lurking in most every area of life, And if you exhibit your modelling work, no matter what the theme or
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 7, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Dear John,



                  I think you'll find "Monday's Experts" lurking in most every area of
                  life,



                  And if you exhibit your modelling work, no matter what the "theme" or
                  subject matter,



                  It's inevitable that SOMEone will view it and say, "that's not right..."



                  (My response in such circumstances is to cordially invite the viewer to
                  show me where and how I've err'd,

                  and to reach for the small pile of research material I carry with me to
                  shows,

                  so that I can demonstrate exactly where I got my original information
                  from.....)



                  I also agree that you're much more likely to run into such persons if
                  you model something "local".



                  (As a wild example of this, I have often modelled Victorian logging
                  equipment, and placed it in a aledgedly "New South Wales" scene.



                  While I'm exhibiting in NSW, that's fine,



                  But thankfully, with careful research and modelling execution, I
                  received numerous "yep, that's correct" comments from viewers at
                  Victorian shows...)



                  However, I must also note that modelling East Coast Australian logging,
                  I have found maybe 5 people over 12 year of exhibiting,

                  (not including my own operators), who have actually had any
                  demonstratable knowledge on the subject, just "happen across my layout"
                  as general punters.



                  Ergo,



                  - model something local, you'll probably find someone who
                  "knows about it all"

                  - Do your research, and you'll find valid "Local" prototypes
                  which even the locals don't know about

                  (Unless they were actually a decendent of the bloke who built and ran
                  the line!)



                  The caveat is

                  - Model a "popular" prototype such as Colorado or Maine,

                  (or Welsh Slate, Tallylyn, Tralee and Dingle, Ffestiniog, Lynton and
                  Barnstable, etc etc)

                  And there will almost ALWAYS be someone who's "got all the answers"...



                  All of that having been said, if YOU are enjoying YOUR trains, who cares
                  what anyone else says? ;-)



                  Happy Modelling,

                  Aim to Improve,

                  Prof Klyzlr



                  "...Having received a ton of absolutely current pics of a Brooklyn
                  intersection,

                  having already put some significant effort into the model of said
                  intersection,

                  AND realising that there are some serious descrepancies between the 2,

                  wondering if he dare take the resulting model to a show in Aust,

                  and if there will be anyone who will be able to say "I know that's
                  wrong"????

                  somewhere deep in the Aussie Bush..."













                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • daniel caso
                  John and Proff: I remember a visit at the Stedelijk Museum (modern art) in Amsterdam some years ago. There were two ladies comenting one painting hanging
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 7, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    John and Proff:
                    I remember a visit at the Stedelijk Museum (modern art) in Amsterdam some years ago. There were two ladies comenting one painting hanging before them. One of the ladies stated with some indignation: -"I don't kanow why they hang this here: my six years old boy can do it better!"- They where alooking at one of Piccaso's stillife paintings from the late Cubist period.
                    Somewhere in one of this goups I read a quotation from Nietezche: "There are naaao facts: ajust interpretations."
                    IK mean: no way to conform the expectations of everyone.But also: it is meaningless to model with the goal ofr fullfilling other's expectations. (except if you are doing it proffesionally and you are earning your money by giving the client what he expects) So: why not just make our mistakes in peace, learn from them without shame, accept that there are ALWAYS people who knows more, can do it better, and try to learn also from them, even when they don't show a friendly recognition of our efforts?
                    After all I have NEVER seen a model whithout some inperfection.
                    Also the best modelling is time related and after a decade or two what was impressive just provocates a tender smile and some nostalgy.
                    I think it is not about the place you've reached but about the distance you covered since the place of your departure.

                    Enjoy your modelling!


                    Daniel

                    John Dimitrievich <johnd@...> wrote:
                    Dear John,

                    I think you'll find "Monday's Experts" lurking in most every area of
                    life,

                    And if you exhibit your modelling work, no matter what the "theme" or
                    subject matter,

                    It's inevitable that SOMEone will view it and say, "that's not right..."

                    (My response in such circumstances is to cordially invite the viewer to
                    show me where and how I've err'd,

                    and to reach for the small pile of research material I carry with me to
                    shows,

                    so that I can demonstrate exactly where I got my original information
                    from.....)

                    I also agree that you're much more likely to run into such persons if
                    you model something "local".

                    (As a wild example of this, I have often modelled Victorian logging
                    equipment, and placed it in a aledgedly "New South Wales" scene.

                    While I'm exhibiting in NSW, that's fine,

                    But thankfully, with careful research and modelling execution, I
                    received numerous "yep, that's correct" comments from viewers at
                    Victorian shows...)

                    However, I must also note that modelling East Coast Australian logging,
                    I have found maybe 5 people over 12 year of exhibiting,

                    (not including my own operators), who have actually had any
                    demonstratable knowledge on the subject, just "happen across my layout"
                    as general punters.

                    Ergo,

                    - model something local, you'll probably find someone who
                    "knows about it all"

                    - Do your research, and you'll find valid "Local" prototypes
                    which even the locals don't know about

                    (Unless they were actually a decendent of the bloke who built and ran
                    the line!)

                    The caveat is

                    - Model a "popular" prototype such as Colorado or Maine,

                    (or Welsh Slate, Tallylyn, Tralee and Dingle, Ffestiniog, Lynton and
                    Barnstable, etc etc)

                    And there will almost ALWAYS be someone who's "got all the answers"...

                    All of that having been said, if YOU are enjoying YOUR trains, who cares
                    what anyone else says? ;-)

                    Happy Modelling,

                    Aim to Improve,

                    Prof Klyzlr

                    "...Having received a ton of absolutely current pics of a Brooklyn
                    intersection,

                    having already put some significant effort into the model of said
                    intersection,

                    AND realising that there are some serious descrepancies between the 2,

                    wondering if he dare take the resulting model to a show in Aust,

                    and if there will be anyone who will be able to say "I know that's
                    wrong"????

                    somewhere deep in the Aussie Bush..."

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