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Re: [NewMobilityCafe] First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction

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  • Roland Sapsford
    Hi Eric I don t know Vietnam but this has perhaps been inspired by the MRT in Taipei, which locals say has made a very large difference to travel patterns and
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 27 11:53 AM
      Hi Eric

      I don't know Vietnam but this has perhaps been inspired by the MRT in
      Taipei, which locals say has made a very large difference to travel
      patterns and congestion?

      Cheers
      Roland

      On 28/09/2010 5:32 a.m., eric britton wrote:
      > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-in-Hano
      > i-under-construction-937891/

      --
      ______________

      Roland Sapsford
      +64-4-9341106(w); +64-4-3851105(h); +64-21-651105(m)

      "the most insidious form of ignorance is misplaced certainty"
      (Robert Costanza)
    • eric britton
      Your point is a good one Roland (I am just back an advisory mission in Taipei), but let me try this on you. That system was planned and decided back in the
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 28 1:23 AM

        Your point is a good one Roland (I am just back an advisory mission in Taipei), but let me try this on you.

         

        That system was planned and decided back in the eighties, almost a generation ago, when the basic movement patterns were quite different than they are in Asian cities today. Also it was well before the hyper-scooterization of many Asian cities. A phenomenon which in my book changes everything.

         

        I would say that their most likely model" is the metro in Kaohsiung, opened last year to a resounding thud in ridership, in a city in which three quarters of the population own and use motorized two wheelers as their favorite means of getting around.  And during which ridership levels are les than one third predicted, and necessary for the survival of the existing ownership structure. Keep you eye on Kaohsiung where their first class and wonderfully executed  KMRT is almost certain to go bottom up in the coming months.

         

        I do not rejoice from this news, far from it. And I am also sure that the Kaohsiung metro will in time find its place but it will take time, brains and policy to make it into a real transportation asset for the city. And all that with six billion US dollars already under the surface of the city.

         

        Our cities have changed. So to must be our responses. I hope from the bottom of my heart that Hanoi and other cities across Asia that would like to build their own albatross will consider this and act on it.

         

        Eric

         

        PS. And please dear friends and colleagues, take this argument apart. I can stand the pain.

         

         

        From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Roland Sapsford
        Sent: Monday, 27 September, 2010 20:54
        To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [NewMobilityCafe] First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction

         

         

        Hi Eric

        I don't know Vietnam but this has perhaps been inspired by the MRT in
        Taipei, which locals say has made a very large difference to travel
        patterns and congestion?

        Cheers
        Roland

        On 28/09/2010 5:32 a.m., eric britton wrote:
        > http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-in-Hano
        > i-under-construction-937891/

        --
        ______________

        Roland Sapsford
        +64-4-9341106(w); +64-4-3851105(h); +64-21-651105(m)

        "the most insidious form of ignorance is misplaced certainty"
        (Robert Costanza)

        .

      • eric britton
        Is this a possibility? Each time that one of our major international institutions is called on to finance such a possibly inappropriate project, we ask for
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 28 1:33 AM
          Is this a possibility? Each time that one of our major international
          institutions is called on to finance such a possibly inappropriate project,
          we ask for their support to prepare a Plan B. showing how an alternative
          series of investments and policies could, for the same amount of money, have
          a more positive, most sustainable and more just (and much faster) impact on
          the city.

          With the right team behind and the necessary resources, a credible job of a
          sketch plan could be completed in a couple of months max.

          I promise you that this could be done and done well. But we do need to sell
          the idea.

          Eric Britton


          -----Original Message-----
          From: sustran-discuss-bounces+fekbritton=gmail.com@...
          [mailto:sustran-discuss-bounces+fekbritton=gmail.com@...] On
          Behalf Of Kanthi Kannan
          Sent: Tuesday, 28 September, 2010 05:54
          To: 'Sujit Patwardhan'; 'eric britton'; 'sustran-discuss'
          Subject: [sustran] Re: First urban railway route in Hanoi under construction

          Dear Sujit, Eric and others

          Greetings!!

          I think that this forum should be string enough to stop this since the forum
          has a lot of contacts and influence with the ADB. If we are unable to stop
          this from happening, then we cannot halt the metros in all our cities and a
          scam that will put the CWG scam to shame

          Let us do something about this and STOP THIS

          Not sure how. But we have to take action

          Regards

          Kanthi
          _____

          From: Sujit Patwardhan [mailto:patwardhan.sujit@...]
          Sent: 28 September 2010 01:07
          Subject: Fwd: [NewMobilityCafe] First urban railway route in Hanoi under
          construction

          Who will say "Shame on you" to the Metro being planned for Pune?
          Half of us seem to be excited no end by the possibility of getting this -

          "a terrible expensive 19th century mobility system."

          .....as Eric Britton rightly calls it.

          Wake up before it is too late and Pune is permanently ruined !!!!
          --
          Sujit


          ---------- Forwarded message ----------
          From: eric britton <eric.britton@...>
          Date: Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 10:02 PM
          Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] First urban railway route in Hanoi under
          construction


          Source:


          http://english.vietnamnet.vn/social/201009/First-urban-railway-route-in-Hano

          i-under-construction-937891/ (With AD's comment: " Looking forward to see
          the fare and wonder how could they make it more tempted than that of riding
          a motorcycle for people."

          As someone who loves Vietnam deeply and has a bit of experience in transport
          in cities, including in Asia, I find this very distressing and all too
          familiar. Why on earth should anyone in a situation in which transport OD
          requirements are many-to-many and all-the-time, decide to spend scarce
          taxpayer dollars on a terrible expensive 19th century mobility system.

          If the French really want to help Hanoi, they should be proposing a light
          on-surface Strasburg style tramway. They could make their money and do good
          at the same time. But an 80 kph heavy rail system in the middle of the city
          and costing a billion Euros (as surely it will), is no kind favor.

          Shame on you European Investment Bank and Asian Development Bank for going
          along with this hubris-inspired billion dollar mistake.

          Eric Britton

          WorldStreets.org | NewMobility.org | Skype: newmobility
          8, rue Jospeh Bara | Paris 75006 France | +331 7550 3788




          --
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          "..each million we invest into urban motorways is an investment
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          Munich 1970

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          Sujit Patwardhan
          patwardhan.sujit@...
          sujitjp@...
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