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RE: [NewMobilityCafe] buses in London

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  • Lee Schipper
    Behind Peter s positive note is an important point -- Transit has to work quickly, and fast fare collection is important to keeping the busses (or trains, for
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 17, 2007
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      Behind Peter's positive note is an important point -- Transit has to
      work quickly, and fast fare collection is important to keeping the
      busses (or trains, for that matter) rolling. another big advantage
      of electronics is no money - Istanbul has a system that uses little
      smart keychains (or at least they look that way); Shanghai's works even
      in taxicabs. To be sure fast fare collection eliminates
      a job on the bus, but that whole procedure slows the system down. And
      the neat thing about smart cards is that in a transitional system
      single-fare cards can be sold off the bus that can be used
      on the bus. Perhaps the most attractive point, however is that the
      smart card can simplify the fare distribution system by which revenue is
      divided between operator, driver (in some cases), franchise holder, city
      etc. And a smart card fare system also makes peak load charging (as we
      have on Metro here in Washington DC) work better.

      I think the points made below about evasion can be dealt with in human
      and humane ways


      Lee Schipper
      Director of Research
      EMBARQ, the WRI Center
      for Sustainable Transport
      10 G St. NE
      Washington DC, 20002
      +1202 729 7735
      FAX +1202 7297775

      >>> "Peter Newman" <p.newman@...> 6/17/2007 4:03:42 AM >>>
      The smart card system is working well in Perth. Its extremely quick and
      has cut fare evasion to almost nothing. Peter
      Professor Peter Newman
      Director, Institute for Sustainability and Technology Policy
      Murdoch University, WA 6150


      From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jain Alok
      Sent: Wednesday, 13 June 2007 10:20 AM
      To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] buses in London

      I tend to disagree with Ken Livingstone's argument against not asking
      people to waive their tickets in front of readers. The smart card system
      does not require one to take out the actual ticket from their
      wallets/purses and the transaction time (actual time to validate the
      entry) should only be a few hundred milliseconds. This is almost
      equivalent to tap and go and does not slow down the passengers flow.
      Crowding around the readers can be solved by installing more readers. On
      the positive side, this instils a descipline in all the passengers to
      pay their fares when they get on-board.

      We have tried and tested this concept in Hong Kong after introducing
      Octopus smart card system. Initially, because railway staff were
      entitled for free travel they were not required to validate the tickets
      at the smart card processors. This led to increased evasion and abuse
      use of the tickets. This was changed later on such that all passengers
      including monthly pass users and staff were required to tap their ticket
      at the processors. There was some initial resistance along the lines
      that Mr. Livingstone mentioned but soon people got used to it. The fare
      evasion has dropped to a figure below 1%.

      I was recently in London and for a newcomer it indeed is a problem.
      There are so many opportunities for inadvertent fare evasion in the
      system especially for somebody who is not very familiar with the system.
      I bought an Oyster and got on one of the routemasters. I could not
      locate a processor and when the conducter approached me I was almost
      sure that I would be fined, flogged and left to dry. Obviously, the
      conducted brought with him the processor and I was saved the
      embarassment. But a newcomer, who has no intention to evade, only leanrs
      the system by imitating others. If everybody tapped their card, it would
      be quite obvious to other what they were supposed to do.



      From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ian Wingrove
      Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2007 10:17 PM
      To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [NewMobilityCafe] buses in London

      As requested, the information on London buses and fare revenue. I have
      also included some questions to the Mayor on the subject which help
      provide useful background.


      Articulated Bus Statistics

      * 2005- fare evasion rates on all buses at 7.1%

      * Nearly 10% of all revenue is lost on bendy buses

      Question by Geoff Pope What action are you taking to combat the
      increase in fare evasion levels on London buses last year?

      Answer by Ken Livingstone (2nd Term)

      TfL continues to tackle fare evasion on the London bus network through
      joint working with the police to better tackle offenders, deploying an
      additional 75 inspectors over the past year, intelligence led deployment
      to areas where fare evasion is known to be particularly high, an anti
      fare evasion marketing campaign to remind the public that they risk
      prosecution by travelling without a valid ticket or a valid dated pay as
      you go Oyster card, developing new checking techniques on articulated
      routes, including new penalty procedures, new deployment tactics and
      procedural reviews, and working closely with bus drivers to ensure they
      are involved in checking tickets.

      Question by Geoff Pope

      It is equivalent to about Euros 150 I think, yes. What are you doing to
      increase the penalty fare so it is a real deterrent?

      Answer by Ken Livingstone (2nd Term)

      I think that there is a particular problem with the articulated buses.
      Because that is where the highest level of fraud takes place, I have
      asked Transport for London to consider an excessive penalty fare of £50
      or £100 for people who are caught without a valid ticket or without
      having registered their Oyster card against the reader on those buses.
      Every now and then you get some very disturbing story in the local media
      where someone who clearly genuinely made a mistake ends up being very
      badly treated, and you do not want to increase that. Clearly fare
      evasion on the articulated buses is easier to do because of the need to
      get people on and off quickly, therefore where we have got that, I think
      a more severe penalty might be in order.

      Question by Geoff Pope

      Good. One of the problems on articulated buses is that at least 40% of
      passengers have some kind of ticket which does not need to use the
      Oyster reader. Would it not be better to move to a system where everyone
      has to wave their pass or ticket at a reader?

      Answer by Ken Livingstone (2nd Term)

      Once again, we are in a position where, because of a small number of
      people who are behaving badly, you inconvenience the mass of people who
      are not. If someone has bought a monthly or an annual season ticket and
      put their money upfront to do that, telling them they have got to go the
      charade of registering it when they do not need to, I think would be
      irritating, and it would increase the crush of people around the
      readers, much better to just concentrate the revenue inspectors on those
      particular routes. The good news is that when I became Mayor there were
      114 revenue inspectors, today there are 295.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Simon Norton
      Sent: 08 June 2007 13:50
      To: newmobilitycafe@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [NewMobilityCafe] buses in London

      London's articulated buses have got a reputation that one can
      travel on them
      without paying. Ian, what are the statistics on the efficacy of
      protection on these services ?

      Some of the appeal of these vehicles may be due to that fact. My
      impression is
      that any higher speeds are not very significant (nor were they
      for the
      Routemasters where the problem of fare collection on boarding
      was solved by
      having conductors).

      Personally I prefer double deckers -- the upstairs tends to be
      less crowded and
      the seating is more comfortable.

      One definite downside of articulated buses is that they occupy
      so much space at
      bus stops that other buses often have difficulty pulling in.

      Rory's comments on the social class of bus users in London may
      be right, but can
      one really deduce that attractive women belong to a higher
      social class, which
      is what seems to be implied ?

      Simon Norton


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