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Re: Bike/transit interface

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  • Gladwyn d'Souza
    Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that have evolved on a rail corridor to continue without reducing sevice and expanding auto capacity. One way to
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 9, 2006
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      Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that
      have evolved on a rail corridor to continue without
      reducing sevice and expanding auto capacity.

      One way to do good cycle networks in an urban area is
      to link trails with green streets also known as
      bicycle boulevards to transit hubs. This is a street
      where the bicycle and pedestrian mobility is
      prioritized with chokers and diverters for autos.
      Bryant Street in Palo Alto, CA is an example.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_boulevard

      Gladwyn d'Souza
      www.svbcbikes.org


      --- NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com wrote:
      It seems to me that the argument between BRT and RT
      could be swung
      towards rail if bicycle catchment areas (up to about
      10 times bigger for
      a 10 minute trip) were used instead of walking
      catchments. The bicycle
      adds the missing flexibility to rail travel and is
      suited to less dense
      suburban areas. It must be cost effective in the sense
      that you need
      fewer rail lines to service a given area, as well as
      the benefits if car
      travel to stations could be reduced. Of course good
      cycle networks on
      road or off road are needed to get cyclists to the
      stations.

      Bob Moore
      Leichhardt Bicycle Advocacy Group
      Sydney
    • Anzir Boodoo
      Gladwyn, ... We have a lot of these in the UK, however they seem to be very good for traffic calming , but not for encouraging cycling. Perhaps it s because
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 11, 2006
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        Gladwyn,
        On 10 Jul 2006, at 06:42, Gladwyn d'Souza wrote:
        > Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that
        > have evolved on a rail corridor to continue without
        > reducing sevice and expanding auto capacity.
        >
        > One way to do good cycle networks in an urban area is
        > to link trails with green streets also known as
        > bicycle boulevards to transit hubs. This is a street
        > where the bicycle and pedestrian mobility is
        > prioritized with chokers and diverters for autos.
        > Bryant Street in Palo Alto, CA is an example.
        We have a lot of these in the UK, however they seem to be very good
        for "traffic calming", but not for encouraging cycling. Perhaps it's
        because they are not considered as part of a network improvement for
        cyclists?

        --
        Anzir Boodoo MRes MILT Aff. IRO
        transcience, 72 Staplehurst, BRACKNELL RG12 8DD
      • Gladwyn d'Souza
        Green streets are new and as you note not included in a network. Also unlike a freeway+highway+expressway+arterial systems, a cycling network is not well
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 12, 2006
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          Green streets are new and as you note not included in
          a network. Also unlike a
          freeway+highway+expressway+arterial systems, a cycling
          network is not well defined, in that it doesn't go
          everywhere.

          Bryant for example allows bicycle and pedestrian
          motions while deflecting automobiles. The street is
          also engineered around bicycle and pedestrian
          dimentions for example with small 6' wide bridges
          crossing a tiny stream. But where it fails in "a
          network" is that detector loops are not used to trip
          signals at major intersections or timed at a certain
          speed which I though should be fifteen mph.
          Consequently for a competent cyclist an arterial is
          much faster. On some of our arterials I can catch
          every third light at 22mph. Trails too, like the Los
          Gatos Creek Trail, are faster because they cover long
          distances at 12 to 17 mph and have no signal issues.

          And out here in the west bay Bryant is the only green
          street we have; so green streets don't go anywhere one
          wants to go.

          Which is why when utilized as fillers in an Urban
          Trail System, Green Streets can play a role in
          creating a network that people want to use. An Urban
          Trail System is hard to implement because the area is
          built out with covered creeks and almost no openspace.
          However residents, at least here, complain most about
          unwelcome cut through and fast traffic on their street
          which tends to create tiny prisons for their children.
          One solution then is to remove dangerous capacity from
          automobiles and facilitate other modes by directing
          the multimodal traffic into a transit node with an
          Urban Trail System.

          Gladwyn

          --- Posted by: "Anzir Boodoo"
          On 10 Jul 2006, at 06:42, Gladwyn d'Souza wrote:
          > Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that
          > have evolved on a rail corridor to continue without
          > reducing sevice and expanding auto capacity.
          >
          > One way to do good cycle networks in an urban area
          is
          > to link trails with green streets also known as
          > bicycle boulevards to transit hubs. This is a street
          > where the bicycle and pedestrian mobility is
          > prioritized with chokers and diverters for autos.
          > Bryant Street in Palo Alto, CA is an example.
          We have a lot of these in the UK, however they seem to
          be very good
          for "traffic calming", but not for encouraging
          cycling. Perhaps it's
          because they are not considered as part of a network
          improvement for
          cyclists?
        • Kerry Wood
          The Australian standard shows cycle and pedestrian catchment areas for a railway station. They base it on 7.5 minutes, at 6.5 km/h for up to 800 m when
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 13, 2006
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            The Australian standard shows cycle and pedestrian catchment areas for
            a railway station.
            They base it on 7.5 minutes, at 6.5 km/h for up to 800 m when walking,
            and 20 km/h for up to 2.5 km when cycling.

            But why does this make any difference to bus/rail choices? Why the
            assumption that bikes can be stored at a railway station, or taken on
            the train, but neither is possible on the bus?

            In a low-density suburb, cycling to a bus stop having cycle storage
            lockers might be a good idea. But does anybody know if/where it has
            been done?

            k

            Kerry Wood
            Wellington
            New Zealand
            On 2006 Jul, 10, at 5:42 PM, Gladwyn d'Souza wrote:

            >
            > Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that
            > have evolved on a rail corridor to continue without
            > reducing sevice and expanding auto capacity.
            >
            > One way to do good cycle networks in an urban area is
            > to link trails with green streets also known as
            > bicycle boulevards to transit hubs. This is a street
            > where the bicycle and pedestrian mobility is
            > prioritized with chokers and diverters for autos.
            > Bryant Street in Palo Alto, CA is an example.
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_boulevard
            >
            > Gladwyn d'Souza
            > www.svbcbikes.org
            >
            >
            > --- NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com wrote:
            > It seems to me that the argument between BRT and RT
            > could be swung
            > towards rail if bicycle catchment areas (up to about
            > 10 times bigger for
            > a 10 minute trip) were used instead of walking
            > catchments. The bicycle
            > adds the missing flexibility to rail travel and is
            > suited to less dense
            > suburban areas. It must be cost effective in the sense
            > that you need
            > fewer rail lines to service a given area, as well as
            > the benefits if car
            > travel to stations could be reduced. Of course good
            > cycle networks on
            > road or off road are needed to get cyclists to the
            > stations.
            >
            > Bob Moore
            > Leichhardt Bicycle Advocacy Group
            > Sydney
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org
            > To post message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
            > Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
            > (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Anzir Boodoo
            Gladwyn, ... In the UK New Towns, there is often a network of cycle tracks which reach into the town centre (often the town centre existed before the New Town,
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 13, 2006
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              Gladwyn,
              On 13 Jul 2006, at 05:59, Gladwyn d'Souza wrote:
              > Green streets are new and as you note not included in
              > a network. Also unlike a
              > freeway+highway+expressway+arterial systems, a cycling
              > network is not well defined, in that it doesn't go
              > everywhere.
              >
              > Bryant for example allows bicycle and pedestrian
              > motions while deflecting automobiles. The street is
              > also engineered around bicycle and pedestrian
              > dimentions for example with small 6' wide bridges
              > crossing a tiny stream. But where it fails in "a
              > network" is that detector loops are not used to trip
              > signals at major intersections or timed at a certain
              > speed which I though should be fifteen mph.
              > Consequently for a competent cyclist an arterial is
              > much faster. On some of our arterials I can catch
              > every third light at 22mph. Trails too, like the Los
              > Gatos Creek Trail, are faster because they cover long
              > distances at 12 to 17 mph and have no signal issues.
              In the UK New Towns, there is often a network of cycle tracks which
              reach into the town centre (often the town centre existed before the
              New Town, so sometimes cycle tracks stop or get pushed onto the
              street nearing the centre). The most famous of these are Milton
              Keynes' Redways.

              There are problems though. In Bracknell I have identified the
              following (and they're fairly common)

              * lack of signage (almost total in some areas)
              * cycle tracks sometimes exist separately (which is nice as it allows
              cyclists to build up speed)
              * fast tracks sometimes join pedestrian ways, or run as part of
              footpaths, which makes life difficult or even dangerous for pedestrians
              * fast tracks sometimes join roads with little warning for drivers or
              cyclists. In Bracknell, a couple of junctions have "clover leaf" type
              slip roads for cyclists to come off the road onto a fast cycle track,
              or to join a fast road with no warning for drivers. No surprise that
              these are little used
              * the networks often differ significantly from the road network,
              making intelligibility difficult - those who usually drive will have
              difficulty in wayfinding

              (fortunately we have a cycling map - http://www.bracknell-
              forest.gov.uk/map-and-guide-to-cycling-in-the-bracknell-area.pdf)

              As you say, some towns have had greater or lesser success in
              overlaying cycle networks on existing streets and neighbourhoods -
              mostly because there is no coordination.

              --
              Anzir Boodoo MRes MILT Aff. IRO
              transcience, 72 Staplehurst, BRACKNELL RG12 8DD
            • Eric Bruun
              Kerry Lots of places in the US have bike lockers, mostly rail stops, but also some major bus stops. Many bus fleets also have bicycle racks that hold two bikes
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 13, 2006
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                Kerry

                Lots of places in the US have bike lockers, mostly rail stops, but also some major bus stops.
                Many bus fleets also have bicycle racks that hold two bikes on the front. It works well, and
                doesn't cause much time to be lost.

                Why does there have to be lockers and not simply normal racks? People are used to locking
                their bicycles outside.

                Eric Buun

                -----Original Message-----
                >From: Kerry Wood <kerry.wood@...>
                >Sent: Jul 13, 2006 4:27 AM
                >To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Re: Bike/transit interface
                >
                >The Australian standard shows cycle and pedestrian catchment areas for
                >a railway station.
                >They base it on 7.5 minutes, at 6.5 km/h for up to 800 m when walking,
                >and 20 km/h for up to 2.5 km when cycling.
                >
                >But why does this make any difference to bus/rail choices? Why the
                >assumption that bikes can be stored at a railway station, or taken on
                >the train, but neither is possible on the bus?
                >
                >In a low-density suburb, cycling to a bus stop having cycle storage
                >lockers might be a good idea. But does anybody know if/where it has
                >been done?
                >
                >k
                >
                >Kerry Wood
                >Wellington
                >New Zealand
                >On 2006 Jul, 10, at 5:42 PM, Gladwyn d'Souza wrote:
                >
                >>
                >> Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that
                >> have evolved on a rail corridor to continue without
                >> reducing sevice and expanding auto capacity.
                >>
                >> One way to do good cycle networks in an urban area is
                >> to link trails with green streets also known as
                >> bicycle boulevards to transit hubs. This is a street
                >> where the bicycle and pedestrian mobility is
                >> prioritized with chokers and diverters for autos.
                >> Bryant Street in Palo Alto, CA is an example.
                >>
                >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_boulevard
                >>
                >> Gladwyn d'Souza
                >> www.svbcbikes.org
                >>
                >>
                >> --- NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                >> It seems to me that the argument between BRT and RT
                >> could be swung
                >> towards rail if bicycle catchment areas (up to about
                >> 10 times bigger for
                >> a 10 minute trip) were used instead of walking
                >> catchments. The bicycle
                >> adds the missing flexibility to rail travel and is
                >> suited to less dense
                >> suburban areas. It must be cost effective in the sense
                >> that you need
                >> fewer rail lines to service a given area, as well as
                >> the benefits if car
                >> travel to stations could be reduced. Of course good
                >> cycle networks on
                >> road or off road are needed to get cyclists to the
                >> stations.
                >>
                >> Bob Moore
                >> Leichhardt Bicycle Advocacy Group
                >> Sydney
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org
                >> To post message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                >> Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
                >> (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org
                >To post message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                >Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
                >(It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Rory McMullan
                Anzir wrote: In Bracknell I have identified the following (and they re fairly common) * lack of signage (almost total in some areas) * cycle tracks sometimes
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 14, 2006
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                  Anzir wrote:
                  In Bracknell I have identified the
                  following (and they're fairly common)

                  * lack of signage (almost total in some areas)
                  * cycle tracks sometimes exist separately (which is nice as it allows
                  cyclists to build up speed)
                  * fast tracks sometimes join pedestrian ways, or run as part of
                  footpaths, which makes life difficult or even dangerous for pedestrians
                  * fast tracks sometimes join roads with little warning for drivers or
                  cyclists. In Bracknell, a couple of junctions have "clover leaf" type
                  slip roads for cyclists to come off the road onto a fast cycle track,
                  or to join a fast road with no warning for drivers. No surprise that
                  these are little used
                  * the networks often differ significantly from the road network,
                  making intelligibility difficult - those who usually drive will have
                  difficulty in wayfinding

                  TfL are trying to train all their engineers, also at Borough level, to avoid poor cycle provision as you identify above, they have prepared a decent document the 'London Cycling Design Standards LCDS' .
                   
                   


                  All New Yahoo! Mail – Tired of Vi@gr@! come-ons? Let our SpamGuard protect you.
                • Kerry Wood
                  Eric Hmmm More interesting assumptions. I was assuming a bus stop in a low-density suburb, probably away from shops and with poor supervision. Yes, much
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 14, 2006
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                    Eric

                    Hmmm More interesting assumptions.

                    I was assuming a bus stop in a low-density suburb, probably away from
                    shops and with poor supervision.
                    Yes, much simpler racks or stands are fine if there are people around.

                    Bike racks on the buses is a good idea too, but banned in New Zealand.

                    k

                    Kerry Wood
                    Wellington
                    New Zealand
                    On 2006 Jul, 14, at 7:47 AM, Eric Bruun wrote:

                    > Kerry
                    >
                    > Lots of places in the US have bike lockers, mostly rail stops, but
                    > also some major bus stops.
                    > Many bus fleets also have bicycle racks that hold two bikes on the
                    > front. It works well, and
                    > doesn't cause much time to be lost.
                    >
                    > Why does there have to be lockers and not simply normal racks? People
                    > are used to locking
                    > their bicycles outside.
                    >
                    > Eric Buun
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    >> From: Kerry Wood <kerry.wood@...>
                    >> Sent: Jul 13, 2006 4:27 AM
                    >> To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Subject: Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Re: Bike/transit interface
                    >>
                    >> The Australian standard shows cycle and pedestrian catchment areas for
                    >> a railway station.
                    >> They base it on 7.5 minutes, at 6.5 km/h for up to 800 m when walking,
                    >> and 20 km/h for up to 2.5 km when cycling.
                    >>
                    >> But why does this make any difference to bus/rail choices? Why the
                    >> assumption that bikes can be stored at a railway station, or taken on
                    >> the train, but neither is possible on the bus?
                    >>
                    >> In a low-density suburb, cycling to a bus stop having cycle storage
                    >> lockers might be a good idea. But does anybody know if/where it has
                    >> been done?
                    >>
                    >> k
                    >>
                    >> Kerry Wood
                    >> Wellington
                    >> New Zealand
                    >> On 2006 Jul, 10, at 5:42 PM, Gladwyn d'Souza wrote:
                    >>
                    >>>
                    >>> Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that
                    >>> have evolved on a rail corridor to continue without
                    >>> reducing sevice and expanding auto capacity.
                    >>>
                    >>> One way to do good cycle networks in an urban area is
                    >>> to link trails with green streets also known as
                    >>> bicycle boulevards to transit hubs. This is a street
                    >>> where the bicycle and pedestrian mobility is
                    >>> prioritized with chokers and diverters for autos.
                    >>> Bryant Street in Palo Alto, CA is an example.
                    >>>
                    >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_boulevard
                    >>>
                    >>> Gladwyn d'Souza
                    >>> www.svbcbikes.org
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> --- NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                    >>> It seems to me that the argument between BRT and RT
                    >>> could be swung
                    >>> towards rail if bicycle catchment areas (up to about
                    >>> 10 times bigger for
                    >>> a 10 minute trip) were used instead of walking
                    >>> catchments. The bicycle
                    >>> adds the missing flexibility to rail travel and is
                    >>> suited to less dense
                    >>> suburban areas. It must be cost effective in the sense
                    >>> that you need
                    >>> fewer rail lines to service a given area, as well as
                    >>> the benefits if car
                    >>> travel to stations could be reduced. Of course good
                    >>> cycle networks on
                    >>> road or off road are needed to get cyclists to the
                    >>> stations.
                    >>>
                    >>> Bob Moore
                    >>> Leichhardt Bicycle Advocacy Group
                    >>> Sydney
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org
                    >>> To post message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                    >>> Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
                    >>> (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org
                    >> To post message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                    >> Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
                    >> (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org
                    > To post message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                    > Please think twice before posting to the group as a whole
                    > (It might be that your note is best sent to one person?)
                    >
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                    >
                  • Michael Replogle
                    My 1983 study, Linking Bicycles and Public Transportation, New Links to Suburban Transit Markets, showed the catchments area for bike-transit access to be
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 15, 2006
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                      My 1983 study, "Linking Bicycles and Public Transportation, New Links to
                      Suburban Transit Markets," showed the catchments area for bike-transit
                      access to be typically 35 times larger than walk access, based on
                      empirical research affirmed by other studies in the 1990s. People are
                      generally willing to spend more time cycling to transit than walking to
                      transit, if you consider observed mean access travel times, distances,
                      and relative speeds of walking vs. cycling.

                      Travel modelers routinely measure through behavioral studies and surveys
                      the relative disutility of travel time spent in various travel
                      activities and modes. For example, time spent waiting at a bus stop is
                      typically two or three times more onerous than time spent riding on the
                      bus. Studies show that people will spend more time walking (and walk
                      much farther) to retail centers or transit if the walking environment is
                      safe, interesting, and attractive, compared to the time they will spend
                      walking if the pedestrian environment has the opposite attributes. The
                      same relations pertain to cycling as well, but in general, because
                      cycling provides a higher travel speed than walking, for those people
                      who have cycling in their choice set, it is often perceived to have a
                      lower disutility than walking.

                      Among some market segments, the utility of the exercise value of walking
                      or cycling and its scheduling flexibility counters the disutility of
                      lower travel speeds relative to driving or riding in transit. But that
                      is a function of the values that users bring as they weigh the
                      attributes of the travel choices they perceive to be available to them.

                      Michael A. Replogle
                      Transportation Director
                      Environmental Defense
                      1875 Connecticut Avenue NW, Suite 600
                      Washington, DC 20009 USA
                      office: 202-387-3500
                      mobile: 301-529-0351
                      mreplogle@...
                      www.environmentaldefense.org/go/transportation

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                      [mailto:NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kerry Wood
                      Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 5:39 PM
                      To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Re: Bike/transit interface

                      Eric

                      Hmmm More interesting assumptions.

                      I was assuming a bus stop in a low-density suburb, probably away from
                      shops and with poor supervision.
                      Yes, much simpler racks or stands are fine if there are people around.

                      Bike racks on the buses is a good idea too, but banned in New Zealand.

                      k

                      Kerry Wood
                      Wellington
                      New Zealand
                      On 2006 Jul, 14, at 7:47 AM, Eric Bruun wrote:

                      > Kerry
                      >
                      > Lots of places in the US have bike lockers, mostly rail stops, but
                      > also some major bus stops.
                      > Many bus fleets also have bicycle racks that hold two bikes on the
                      > front. It works well, and doesn't cause much time to be lost.
                      >
                      > Why does there have to be lockers and not simply normal racks? People
                      > are used to locking their bicycles outside.
                      >
                      > Eric Buun
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      >> From: Kerry Wood <kerry.wood@...>
                      >> Sent: Jul 13, 2006 4:27 AM
                      >> To: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com
                      >> Subject: Re: [NewMobilityCafe] Re: Bike/transit interface
                      >>
                      >> The Australian standard shows cycle and pedestrian catchment areas
                      >> for a railway station.
                      >> They base it on 7.5 minutes, at 6.5 km/h for up to 800 m when
                      >> walking, and 20 km/h for up to 2.5 km when cycling.
                      >>
                      >> But why does this make any difference to bus/rail choices? Why the
                      >> assumption that bikes can be stored at a railway station, or taken on

                      >> the train, but neither is possible on the bus?
                      >>
                      >> In a low-density suburb, cycling to a bus stop having cycle storage
                      >> lockers might be a good idea. But does anybody know if/where it has
                      >> been done?
                      >>
                      >> k
                      >>
                      >> Kerry Wood
                      >> Wellington
                      >> New Zealand
                      >> On 2006 Jul, 10, at 5:42 PM, Gladwyn d'Souza wrote:
                      >>
                      >>>
                      >>> Well said. This would allows landuse patterns that have evolved on a

                      >>> rail corridor to continue without reducing sevice and expanding auto

                      >>> capacity.
                      >>>
                      >>> One way to do good cycle networks in an urban area is to link trails

                      >>> with green streets also known as bicycle boulevards to transit hubs.

                      >>> This is a street where the bicycle and pedestrian mobility is
                      >>> prioritized with chokers and diverters for autos.
                      >>> Bryant Street in Palo Alto, CA is an example.
                      >>>
                      >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_boulevard
                      >>>
                      >>> Gladwyn d'Souza
                      >>> www.svbcbikes.org
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> --- NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com wrote:
                      >>> It seems to me that the argument between BRT and RT could be swung
                      >>> towards rail if bicycle catchment areas (up to about 10 times bigger

                      >>> for a 10 minute trip) were used instead of walking catchments. The
                      >>> bicycle adds the missing flexibility to rail travel and is suited to

                      >>> less dense suburban areas. It must be cost effective in the sense
                      >>> that you need fewer rail lines to service a given area, as well as
                      >>> the benefits if car travel to stations could be reduced. Of course
                      >>> good cycle networks on road or off road are needed to get cyclists
                      >>> to the stations.
                      >>>
                      >>> Bob Moore
                      >>> Leichhardt Bicycle Advocacy Group
                      >>> Sydney
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org To post

                      >>> message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Please think twice

                      >>> before posting to the group as a whole (It might be that your note
                      >>> is best sent to one person?)
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >>
                      >> Check in here via the homepage at http://www.newmobility.org To post
                      >> message to group: NewMobilityCafe@yahoogroups.com Please think twice
                      >> before posting to the group as a whole (It might be that your note is

                      >> best sent to one person?)
                      >>
                      >>
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