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Re: [NewEnglandCampaigners] Re: Mounting the Guard

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  • Cpl.R.C.Tarbox
    Gerry, Very true.... The whole those going on duty at support and those coming off at the shoulder just made sense as the officer s and or Sgt of the guard
    Message 1 of 11 , Mar 13, 2006
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      Gerry,
       
      Very true.... The whole "those going on duty" at support and "those coming off" at the shoulder just made sense as the officer's and or Sgt of the guard would be able to tell at a distance the progress of the mount.
       
      Thanks...
       
      R.C.Tarbox

      Gerald Todd <sgttodd@...> wrote:
      |I like to follow the Army Regs as opposed to Kautz.  I'm sure that a new Regimental commander whould have yelled at me if he liked Kautz, and I would have been required to change, but you are damned either way, so I'm sure that they went with what worked best for them.

      You can never go wrong following the regulations, especially since Kautz wasn't published before 1864.

      Jerry
      http://mainecav.org

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      "Don't you run till you see the Sixth New Hampshire run; but when you see that regi-ment retreating, you may do likewise." (officer of another regiment fighting with the sixth at Bull Run)

      {History of the Sixth New Hampshire Regiment in the War for the Union
      Captain Lyman Jackman}


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    • Cpl.R.C.Tarbox
      Thanks for the Ref. Harry... Good stuff..... Rob jerzeeblues@aol.com wrote: RC Tarbox When relieving and posting sentinels the guard marches at support arms.
      Message 2 of 11 , Mar 13, 2006
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        Thanks for the Ref. Harry... Good stuff.....
         
        Rob

        jerzeeblues@... wrote:
        RC Tarbox
         
        When relieving and posting sentinels the guard marches at support arms.
         
        When the relief approaches each sentinel, that sentinel halts and faces the relief coming to shoulder arms. When the relief is within 6 paces, it's Cpl. commands:
                     a.Relief. b HALT
        The relief halts and shoulders arms. The Cpl continues:
                c No (post no) d.arms-PORT
        The relief sentinel and the old sentinel of that post approach each other at ARMS --PORT. Under the supervision of the Cpls. the old sentinel whispers the instructions to the new sentinel, after which, they both shoulder arms; the new sentinel takes his post and the old sentinel moves to the rear of the relief.
          The Cpl then orders:
          a.Support--ARMS  b. forward. c march
         
           This is the way it is done in daylight and not within sight of the enemy. At night and within sight of the enemy it is done differently.
         
        Source Material:   Revised U.S. Army Regulations--1863
        Instructions for Guards and Pickets--Dal Bello
         
        Harry Connelley



        "Don't you run till you see the Sixth New Hampshire run; but when you see that regi-ment retreating, you may do likewise." (officer of another regiment fighting with the sixth at Bull Run)

        {History of the Sixth New Hampshire Regiment in the War for the Union
        Captain Lyman Jackman}


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      • Cpl.R.C.Tarbox
        Very good Capt. I like the way you think. As I just mentioned. I think it makes most sense following the 61 Regs. Especially this year. If involved with the CS
        Message 3 of 11 , Mar 13, 2006
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          Very good Capt. I like the way you think.
           
          As I just mentioned. I think it makes most sense following the 61 Regs. Especially this year. If involved with the CS guard mount for some of the Campaign events this season I would prefer to use the 61 Regs. Thanks for chiming in.
           
          Time to hit the Hardee's
           
          YHS
          R.C.Tarbox

          "Todd M. Bryda" <bryda@...> wrote:

          Hi Rob!
             As with everything in the Regulations from the War, there are
          numerous confusing and often contradictory orders.

          According to Kautz's Customs of Service for Non-Commissioned Officers
          and Soldiers (#329-330), the relief guard marches out at Support
          Arms, and the guard being relieved marches back at support arms.

          According to the 1861 Army Regulations (Guard Mounting, pgs 58-61),
          the relief goes out at Support Arms and the relieved come back at
          Shoulder Arms.

          I have alawys tried to think of these and othercontradictory
          statements with the attitude of "what makes the most sense."  To
          easily see who is coming on and who is going off, I like to follow
          the Army Regs as opposed to Kautz.  I'm sure that a new Regimental
          commander whould have yelled at me if he liked Kautz, and I would
          have been required to change, but you are damned either way, so I'm
          sure that they went with what worked best for them.

          I have been in enough fights with "Know it all's" in reenacting to
          know that no matter what you do, you will be wrong. :) 

          Hope that helps.

          Todd






          --- In NewEnglandCampaigners@yahoogroups.com, "Cpl.R.C.Tarbox"
          <rob_6thnhvi@...> wrote:
          >
          > Thanks Frank.... I am still looking for where I might find the
          order.
          >   I have 4 manuals in front of me now and will be doing some
          digging.
          >   
          >   Rob
          >
          > Frank and Karen Lilley <lilley22@...> wrote:
          >         v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url
          (#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
          {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url
          (#default#ieooui) }                I have marched at both support and
          at the shoulder but never with the guys going on duty and the guys
          going off duty at different positions.
          >   
          >   
          >   Frank Lilley
          >   
          >      
          > ---------------------------------
          >  
          >   From: NewEnglandCampaigners@yahoogroups.com
          [mailto:NewEnglandCampaigners@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Cpl.R.C.Tarbox
          > Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 4:31 PM
          > To: newenglandcampaigners@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: [NewEnglandCampaigners] Mounting the Guard
          >
          >   
          >     Just back from our company drill yesterday and we had another
          unit going over guard duty with us. It was great to bang the rust off
          and learned a few new things as well, but I have a question.
          >
          >     
          >
          >     I was always under the impression that when the relief detail
          was picking up those coming off duty that those that were being
          posted (the relief) marched at support arms where those to the rear
          of the detail (coming off duty) stayed at shoulder arms.
          >
          >     
          >
          >     I was told this is incorrect and that all march at support.
          Anyone know which is correct? We will be going over this in our
          drills for the next couple of months and hope to be instructing this
          correctly.
          >
          >     
          >
          >     I have been searching the 1863 Outpost and partol duty manual
          and am not able to locate this for some reason.
          >
          >     
          >
          >     Capt. Bryda care to chime in on this?
          >
          >     
          >
          >   Thanks in advance boys..
          >     
          >
          >     R.C.Tarbox
          >
          >  
          >
          > "Don't you run till you see the Sixth New Hampshire run; but when
          you see that regi-ment retreating, you may do likewise." (officer of
          another regiment fighting with the sixth at Bull Run)
          >
          > {History of the Sixth New Hampshire Regiment in the War for the
          Union
          > Captain Lyman Jackman}
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          >
          > "Don't you run till you see the Sixth New Hampshire run; but when
          you see that regi-ment retreating, you may do likewise." (officer of
          another regiment fighting with the sixth at Bull Run)
          >
          > {History of the Sixth New Hampshire Regiment in the War for the
          Union
          > Captain Lyman Jackman}
          >            
          > ---------------------------------
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          "Don't you run till you see the Sixth New Hampshire run; but when you see that regi-ment retreating, you may do likewise." (officer of another regiment fighting with the sixth at Bull Run)

          {History of the Sixth New Hampshire Regiment in the War for the Union
          Captain Lyman Jackman}


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        • jerzeeblues@aol.com
          In a message dated 3/13/06 11:37:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, rob_6thnhvi@yahoo.com writes: officer s and or Sgt of the guard would be able to tell at a
          Message 4 of 11 , Mar 14, 2006
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            In a message dated 3/13/06 11:37:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, rob_6thnhvi@... writes:
            officer's and or Sgt of the guard would be able to tell at a distance the progress of the mount.
            Rob
             
               The picket posts would not been seen from the reserve location. Anyway why would you care what the progress is.
             
            Harry C
          • Michael Jolin
            Harry, Good to see you still retained some knowledge after all these years in the hobby! Hope to see you up here in New England this summer. Based on what I
            Message 5 of 11 , Mar 14, 2006
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              Harry,
               
              Good to see you still retained some knowledge after all these years in the hobby! Hope to see you up here in New England this summer. Based on what I saw on The Sopranos the other night, you guyz in Jerzee haven't got long in this world.
               
              Charlie Rock!
               
              Mike

              jerzeeblues@... wrote:
              In a message dated 3/13/06 11:37:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, rob_6thnhvi@... writes:
              officer's and or Sgt of the guard would be able to tell at a distance the progress of the mount.
              Rob
               
                 The picket posts would not been seen from the reserve location. Anyway why would you care what the progress is.
               
              Harry C


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