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Re: Scheduled NCC meet on 19 October 2007

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  • Eric Reinhardt
    Also wanted to point out that Larry Sabato, one of the chief organizers of this event, is on record as saying that he believes a Constitutional Convention is
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 4, 2007
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      Also wanted to point out that Larry Sabato, one of the chief
      organizers of this event, is on record as saying that he believes a
      Constitutional Convention is " a generation away." Also, a lot of the
      high profile participants at this event are what I consider to
      be "partisan status quo types". A list of these individuals is at the
      link below:

      http://www.centerforpolitics.org/programs/nss/#participants



      --- In NationalConstitutionalConvention06@yahoogroups.com, "Eric
      Reinhardt" <ericreinhardt2003@...> wrote:
      >
      > I think it is great,Jerry, that you are planning to attend the
      ConCon
      > event in D.C. on the 19th and providing your input. With that said
      > though, I should point out though that there are only 2 ways to
      amend
      > the Constitution as outlined in Article V. The first is via the
      state
      > legislatures AND Congress. The second is via a Constitutional
      > Convention. A legitimate Constitutional Convention HAS to originate
      > from the state legislatures in Article V. Nonetheless, as you point
      > out, this event has potential in that it will allow people to
      network
      > and hopefully get focused with respect to specific amendment
      > proposals, which can then be forwarded to state legislatures.
      >
      > I have to also say that I disagree with you when you say that a
      > Convention will never occur via Article V. As I have pointed out
      > previously, it is clear that in the event 2/3rds of the states
      apply
      > to Congress for a Convention, the latter will more than likely
      ignore
      > the call or seek to delay it. And this is where REAL LEADERSHIP
      will
      > need to be shown on the part of the state legislators. They should
      > specify to Congress on submitting the applications that they EXPECT
      a
      > prompt review of the application, and likewise for a prompt call of
      a
      > Convention(which is technically just a formality nothing more). I
      > would given them 90 days at the most. If a call is not forthcoming
      > then the states should simply proceed on their own. They will have
      > covered themselves by submitting the applications and Congress will
      > then be culpable for any failure to issue a call. Following the law
      > eliminates a lot of judicial headaches.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In NationalConstitutionalConvention06@yahoogroups.com, jerry
      > johnson <ifightit@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Everyone! Your stated purpose is to acomplish the call for a
      > National Constitutional Convebntion. We all know that that event
      > will NEVER occur via way of Article 5. One must bypass Congress.
      Why
      > not use the upcoming meet as a Convention in and by itself.
      > Participants should draft one or more Amendments and submit it or
      > them directly to the State Legislature under a Heading Letter. The
      > ratification of 38 State Legislatures of the same proposed
      Amendment
      > is the bottom line of ANY amendment process. The subjects of
      > orrigination, process, proceedures and constitutionality are all
      moot
      > if 38 State ratify. Why waste time,effort, and money talking about
      > possibilities and , ideas and proocedures when you can ACT. I
      > already have the AMENDMENT, if ratified it will allow the States to
      > correct and solve nearly every political problem we have in this
      > Nation.. I plan to attend the meet on the 19th and present my
      > proposal to the group. Please consider this proposal. Jerry Johnson
      > > - GOP Presidential Candidate
      > >
      > > Eric Reinhardt <ericreinhardt2003@> wrote:
      > >
      > > "NewsMax.com" <newsmax@> wrote:
      > > Dear NewsMax Reader:
      > > Please find below a special message from our sponsor, National
      > Tax Limitation Committee. They have some important information to
      > share with you.
      > > Thank you.
      > > NewsMax.com
      > >
      > > No More Bailouts
      > > By Lew Uhler
      > > Everyone is for free markets when times are good. Borrowers,
      > lenders, builders, investors, manufacturers, retailers — everyone.
      As
      > long as they are making money, they want the government to stay out
      > of their affairs. Cut regulation and taxes, and they are happy.
      But
      > the moment someone goes bust, money gets tight, or the economy
      slows,
      > people start screaming for a bailout. Never mind if they knowingly
      > made a risky investment. Never mind if they collected healthy
      profits
      > until things went south. Wouldn't the taxpayers be so kind as to
      > cover their losses? Chrysler squeezed a loan guarantee out of
      > Congress. Washington provided a massive bailout of the savings and
      > loans. The big banks ran to Washington when their deadbeat Third
      > World borrowers couldn't pay. Now a gaggle of homeowners, mortgage
      > lenders, and investors are marching, their hands eagerly
      > outstretched. The once robust subprime mortgage market has
      > collapsed. As long as housing prices were rising, home loans
      > > seemed like a sure thing. A poor credit risk? No problem. Some
      > lender would find a "creative" way to finance your house. Get
      into
      > financial trouble? Just sell or refinance. Everyone still came out
      > ahead. So investors started buying subprime loans. Not just big
      > name hedge funds, but common mutual funds. With money to be made,
      no
      > one seemed to worry much about the risk they were running. But
      home
      > sales cooled, prices fell, and foreclosures rose. Suddenly
      homeowners
      > can't pay their mortgages, lenders are stuck with hard-to-sell
      > houses, and investors are taking a bath. The losses could run $100
      to
      > $200 billion. Once upon a time Americans would have accepted
      > responsibility for their mistakes, taken the painful financial hit,
      > and moved on, wounded but wiser. No longer. If money wasn't made,
      it
      > must be someone else's fault. Thus, those at risk are telling
      elected
      > officials: If I'm losing money, there's a crisis, so DO
      SOMETHING!
      > Unfortunately, politicians are listening.
      > > For instance, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has created a
      $250
      > million bailout fund that will refinance bad loans, putting the
      > taxpayers at risk. Proposals abound in New York, Pennsylvania, and
      > elsewhere to follow suit. With the stock market taking a hit from
      > the burst of the subprime market bubble, bailout advocates are now
      > making a run on Washington. Some want to turn the nonpartisan
      Federal
      > Reserve into the housing industry's political piggy bank. William
      > Gross, head of PIMCO, a giant bond mutual fund, has called for
      > creation of a "Reconstruction Mortgage Corporation" to toss money
      > hither and yon. He poses as the defender of helpless homeowners,
      who
      > otherwise would "be thrown to the wolves." But the investment
      > portfolios of his clients likely weigh more heavily on his mind.
      And
      > nothing is too good for those paying his fees, especially if the
      bill
      > for helping them goes to the taxpayers. The mortgage meltdown is
      > painful, but just one in 20 loans are "creative,"
      > > and only some of them are going bad. A decline in housing prices
      > reduces Americans' paper wealth, not their living standard, since
      > their home doesn't change. And those who would reap the gains from
      a
      > rising market cannot complain when prices fall. William Gross and
      > others nevertheless paint the subprime lending mess as a crisis,
      but
      > that's not true. Although no one likes to lose $100 or $200
      billion,
      > the U.S. economy is $13 trillion and growing. One of the advantages
      > of living in a wealthy society is that one can better weather
      > economic storms. America is not Bangladesh. We will thrive even if
      > housing prices stall. Perhaps the worst consequence of a subprime
      > bailout is to set the stage for more bailouts in the future. Gross
      > himself cites the Chrysler and S&L bailouts as a reason to cover
      > housing losses. In turn, the victims of the next bursting economic
      > bubble — information technology, perhaps, or health care, or
      machine
      > tools, or whatever — would cite any subprime
      > > bailout. America's capitalist system is the envy of the world.
      > But the U.S. economy works so well only so long as the government
      > lets the market adjust, no matter how painful the process is for
      some
      > people. Participants in the subprime market took their profits when
      > prices were rising. They should accept their losses now that the
      > market has gone bust. If Joe Taxpayer has to play by the rules,
      so
      > do those who profited handsomely from the mortgage business who now
      > have their hand out asking to be rescued. Congress and the
      President
      > should hold firm against those lobbying for a taxpayer financed
      > bailout of Wall Street. Call or write the President and your
      > representatives and tell them not to waste your hard earned money
      on
      > subsidies for Wall Street bankers who are afraid that they won't
      get
      > their obscene end of year bonuses without your help. Lew Uhler is
      > President of the National Tax Limitation Committee.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ###### Visit www.stoptaxpayerbailout.com
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > This e-mail is never sent unsolicited. You have received this
      > NewsMax News Alert because you subscribed to it or someone
      forwarded
      > it to you. To opt out, see the links below.
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      > hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
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      > >
      >
    • Eric Reinhardt
      Just wanted to expound a little more with respect to Jerry s ideas. As previously mentioned, I sympathize with his position with respect to getting right to
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 5, 2007
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        Just wanted to expound a little more with respect to Jerry's ideas.
        As previously mentioned, I sympathize with his position with respect
        to getting right to the heart of matters and getting 38 states to
        ratify an amendment or amendments. I've always been one for
        streamlining things and not wasting time and efforts. However, I have
        seen a lot of good efforts in the past, particulary on
        initiative/referendum issues , wasted because proper procedures
        weren't followed. With respect to the latter, I have seen failed
        efforts due to failure to meet deadlines, failure to follow explicit
        instructions with respect to ballot wording(either with respect to
        the number of words or the number of issues), invalid signatures etc.
        No doubt many of you have too. It's truly sad day when you see a
        judge throw out many, many months and hours of hard work and efforts,
        but that is the case when PROPER PROCEDURES aren't followed. We may
        not like it, but it always comes down to the law.

        In any event, say if things went as Jerry has proposed and 38 states
        agreed to and passed an amendment, and then declared that this was
        now the law of the land. Then say one of the federal "elites" or
        maybe even just a hotshot lawyer trying to make a name for himself
        comes around and files a federal lawsuit claiming that this action is
        invalid because the Constitution wasn't followed. The argument will
        simply be that the states must first petition Congress as per Article
        V to have a Convention, and then that the Congress must specify the
        manner of voting on any forthcoming amendments( via state
        legislatures or state conventions), as this is how the Constitution
        specifies the manner in which the amendment procedure must occur.
        I can say with almost 100% certainty that the judge will decide in
        favor of the "elitist" or lawyer simply because the LAW was not
        followed. We may not like it, but this is how things operate in the
        legislative/judicial world. So the bottom line is that to insure that
        time and effort is not wasted, we should follow Article V closely to
        avoid legal problems.

        Also, in view of the fact that autonomous regional government is the
        goal of this Convention proposal and that many details/specifics have
        to be worked out(which states going into which regions, continental
        defense plans etc.), a Convention will provide a practical forum for
        these matters to be discussed and ironed out. It is much easier to
        coordinate things with all the states under one roof at the same time.



        --- In NationalConstitutionalConvention06@yahoogroups.com, jerry
        johnson <ifightit@...> wrote:
        >
        > Everyone! Your stated purpose is to acomplish the call for a
        National Constitutional Convebntion. We all know that that event
        will NEVER occur via way of Article 5. One must bypass Congress. Why
        not use the upcoming meet as a Convention in and by itself.
        Participants should draft one or more Amendments and submit it or
        them directly to the State Legislature under a Heading Letter. The
        ratification of 38 State Legislatures of the same proposed Amendment
        is the bottom line of ANY amendment process. The subjects of
        orrigination, process, proceedures and constitutionality are all moot
        if 38 State ratify. Why waste time,effort, and money talking about
        possibilities and , ideas and proocedures when you can ACT. I
        already have the AMENDMENT, if ratified it will allow the States to
        correct and solve nearly every political problem we have in this
        Nation.. I plan to attend the meet on the 19th and present my
        proposal to the group. Please consider this proposal. Jerry Johnson
        > - GOP Presidential Candidate
        >
        > Eric Reinhardt <ericreinhardt2003@...> wrote:
        >
        > "NewsMax.com" <newsmax@...> wrote:
        > Dear NewsMax Reader:
        > Please find below a special message from our sponsor, National
        Tax Limitation Committee. They have some important information to
        share with you.
        > Thank you.
        > NewsMax.com
        >
        > No More Bailouts
        > By Lew Uhler
        > Everyone is for free markets when times are good. Borrowers,
        lenders, builders, investors, manufacturers, retailers — everyone. As
        long as they are making money, they want the government to stay out
        of their affairs. Cut regulation and taxes, and they are happy. But
        the moment someone goes bust, money gets tight, or the economy slows,
        people start screaming for a bailout. Never mind if they knowingly
        made a risky investment. Never mind if they collected healthy profits
        until things went south. Wouldn't the taxpayers be so kind as to
        cover their losses? Chrysler squeezed a loan guarantee out of
        Congress. Washington provided a massive bailout of the savings and
        loans. The big banks ran to Washington when their deadbeat Third
        World borrowers couldn't pay. Now a gaggle of homeowners, mortgage
        lenders, and investors are marching, their hands eagerly
        outstretched. The once robust subprime mortgage market has
        collapsed. As long as housing prices were rising, home loans
        > seemed like a sure thing. A poor credit risk? No problem. Some
        lender would find a "creative" way to finance your house. Get into
        financial trouble? Just sell or refinance. Everyone still came out
        ahead. So investors started buying subprime loans. Not just big
        name hedge funds, but common mutual funds. With money to be made, no
        one seemed to worry much about the risk they were running. But home
        sales cooled, prices fell, and foreclosures rose. Suddenly homeowners
        can't pay their mortgages, lenders are stuck with hard-to-sell
        houses, and investors are taking a bath. The losses could run $100 to
        $200 billion. Once upon a time Americans would have accepted
        responsibility for their mistakes, taken the painful financial hit,
        and moved on, wounded but wiser. No longer. If money wasn't made, it
        must be someone else's fault. Thus, those at risk are telling elected
        officials: If I'm losing money, there's a crisis, so DO SOMETHING!
        Unfortunately, politicians are listening.
        > For instance, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has created a $250
        million bailout fund that will refinance bad loans, putting the
        taxpayers at risk. Proposals abound in New York, Pennsylvania, and
        elsewhere to follow suit. With the stock market taking a hit from
        the burst of the subprime market bubble, bailout advocates are now
        making a run on Washington. Some want to turn the nonpartisan Federal
        Reserve into the housing industry's political piggy bank. William
        Gross, head of PIMCO, a giant bond mutual fund, has called for
        creation of a "Reconstruction Mortgage Corporation" to toss money
        hither and yon. He poses as the defender of helpless homeowners, who
        otherwise would "be thrown to the wolves." But the investment
        portfolios of his clients likely weigh more heavily on his mind. And
        nothing is too good for those paying his fees, especially if the bill
        for helping them goes to the taxpayers. The mortgage meltdown is
        painful, but just one in 20 loans are "creative,"
        > and only some of them are going bad. A decline in housing prices
        reduces Americans' paper wealth, not their living standard, since
        their home doesn't change. And those who would reap the gains from a
        rising market cannot complain when prices fall. William Gross and
        others nevertheless paint the subprime lending mess as a crisis, but
        that's not true. Although no one likes to lose $100 or $200 billion,
        the U.S. economy is $13 trillion and growing. One of the advantages
        of living in a wealthy society is that one can better weather
        economic storms. America is not Bangladesh. We will thrive even if
        housing prices stall. Perhaps the worst consequence of a subprime
        bailout is to set the stage for more bailouts in the future. Gross
        himself cites the Chrysler and S&L bailouts as a reason to cover
        housing losses. In turn, the victims of the next bursting economic
        bubble — information technology, perhaps, or health care, or machine
        tools, or whatever — would cite any subprime
        > bailout. America's capitalist system is the envy of the world.
        But the U.S. economy works so well only so long as the government
        lets the market adjust, no matter how painful the process is for some
        people. Participants in the subprime market took their profits when
        prices were rising. They should accept their losses now that the
        market has gone bust. If Joe Taxpayer has to play by the rules, so
        do those who profited handsomely from the mortgage business who now
        have their hand out asking to be rescued. Congress and the President
        should hold firm against those lobbying for a taxpayer financed
        bailout of Wall Street. Call or write the President and your
        representatives and tell them not to waste your hard earned money on
        subsidies for Wall Street bankers who are afraid that they won't get
        their obscene end of year bonuses without your help. Lew Uhler is
        President of the National Tax Limitation Committee.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ###### Visit www.stoptaxpayerbailout.com
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > This e-mail is never sent unsolicited. You have received this
        NewsMax News Alert because you subscribed to it or someone forwarded
        it to you. To opt out, see the links below.
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > TO ADVERTISE
        > ---------------------------------
        > For information on advertising at NewsMax.com, please contact
        NewsMax Advertising Sales via e-mail.
        > ---------------------------------
        > TO SUBSCRIBE
        > ---------------------------------
        > If this News Alert has been forwarded to you and would like a
        subscription, please sign up for NewsMax e-mail alerts. Remove your
        e-mail address from our list or modify your profile.
        > We respect your right to privacy. View our policy.
        > This e-mail was sent by:
        > NewsMax.com
        > 4152 West Blue Heron Blvd, Ste 1114
        > Riviera Beach, FL, 33404 USA
        > 108512
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the
        hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Building a website is a piece of cake.
        > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
        >
      • Michael Bindner
        Eric, You are absolutely right on all points. I would like to add that building an electoral coalition to do these things is also essential. One fertile
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 10, 2007
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          Eric,
           
          You are absolutely right on all points.
           
          I would like to add that building an electoral coalition to do these things is also essential.  One fertile ground my be Unity08, which has quite a few Paulists on it.  I think the Ron Paul campaign is planning to hijack it, but you didn't hear it from me. I am only speculating anyway, but I can read the tea leaves.  Since his political director is associated with the Libertarian Reform Caucus - and he himself is a frequent contributor to its magazine, the Free Liberal, my bet is that something more broad based than the LP will be sought for a general election run, especially as he indicated he would not support the GOP nominee if it was not him.  I think he is betting on enough Hillary heartburn to run as an independent, although he may well take off in the GOP. 
           
          One of the former members of the Libertarian Reform Caucus, Dr. Carl Milstead, is exploring the formation of a new party.  He is leaning toward calling it the Human Rights Party.  My vote is to call it the Equity Party, since the Human Rights Party was originally a socialist leaning party in Detroit in the 60s.  Go to these links to check out what he has written so far, as well as my links, where I say much of the same stuff but from a different perspective. 
           
          Eventually, a group of us with common principles must get together and organize with the intention of winning, rather than just making a statement (as you find in the Libertarian Party and in a certain extent in the Green Party of the US).

          Eric Reinhardt <ericreinhardt2003@...> wrote:
          Just wanted to expound a little more with respect to Jerry's ideas.
          As previously mentioned, I sympathize with his position with respect
          to getting right to the heart of matters and getting 38 states to
          ratify an amendment or amendments. I've always been one for
          streamlining things and not wasting time and efforts. However, I have
          seen a lot of good efforts in the past, particulary on
          initiative/referend um issues , wasted because proper procedures
          weren't followed. With respect to the latter, I have seen failed
          efforts due to failure to meet deadlines, failure to follow explicit
          instructions with respect to ballot wording(either with respect to
          the number of words or the number of issues), invalid signatures etc.
          No doubt many of you have too. It's truly sad day when you see a
          judge throw out many, many months and hours of hard work and efforts,
          but that is the case when PROPER PROCEDURES aren't followed. We may
          not like it, but it always comes down to the law.

          In any event, say if things went as Jerry has proposed and 38 states
          agreed to and passed an amendment, and then declared that this was
          now the law of the land. Then say one of the federal "elites" or
          maybe even just a hotshot lawyer trying to make a name for himself
          comes around and files a federal lawsuit claiming that this action is
          invalid because the Constitution wasn't followed. The argument will
          simply be that the states must first petition Congress as per Article
          V to have a Convention, and then that the Congress must specify the
          manner of voting on any forthcoming amendments( via state
          legislatures or state conventions) , as this is how the Constitution
          specifies the manner in which the amendment procedure must occur.
          I can say with almost 100% certainty that the judge will decide in
          favor of the "elitist" or lawyer simply because the LAW was not
          followed. We may not like it, but this is how things operate in the
          legislative/ judicial world. So the bottom line is that to insure that
          time and effort is not wasted, we should follow Article V closely to
          avoid legal problems.

          Also, in view of the fact that autonomous regional government is the
          goal of this Convention proposal and that many details/specifics have
          to be worked out(which states going into which regions, continental
          defense plans etc.), a Convention will provide a practical forum for
          these matters to be discussed and ironed out. It is much easier to
          coordinate things with all the states under one roof at the same time.

          --- In NationalConstitutio nalConvention06@ yahoogroups. com, jerry
          johnson <ifightit@.. .> wrote:
          >
          > Everyone! Your stated purpose is to acomplish the call for a
          National Constitutional Convebntion. We all know that that event
          will NEVER occur via way of Article 5. One must bypass Congress. Why
          not use the upcoming meet as a Convention in and by itself.
          Participants should draft one or more Amendments and submit it or
          them directly to the State Legislature under a Heading Letter. The
          ratification of 38 State Legislatures of the same proposed Amendment
          is the bottom line of ANY amendment process. The subjects of
          orrigination, process, proceedures and constitutionality are all moot
          if 38 State ratify. Why waste time,effort, and money talking about
          possibilities and , ideas and proocedures when you can ACT. I
          already have the AMENDMENT, if ratified it will allow the States to
          correct and solve nearly every political problem we have in this
          Nation.. I plan to attend the meet on the 19th and present my
          proposal to the group. Please consider this proposal. Jerry Johnson
          > - GOP Presidential Candidate
          >
          > Eric Reinhardt <ericreinhardt2003@ ...> wrote:
          >
          > "NewsMax.com" <newsmax@... > wrote:
          > Dear NewsMax Reader:
          > Please find below a special message from our sponsor, National
          Tax Limitation Committee. They have some important information to
          share with you.
          > Thank you.
          > NewsMax.com
          >
          > No More Bailouts
          > By Lew Uhler
          > Everyone is for free markets when times are good. Borrowers,
          lenders, builders, investors, manufacturers, retailers — everyone. As
          long as they are making money, they want the government to stay out
          of their affairs. Cut regulation and taxes, and they are happy. But
          the moment someone goes bust, money gets tight, or the economy slows,
          people start screaming for a bailout. Never mind if they knowingly
          made a risky investment. Never mind if they collected healthy profits
          until things went south. Wouldn't the taxpayers be so kind as to
          cover their losses? Chrysler squeezed a loan guarantee out of
          Congress. Washington provided a massive bailout of the savings and
          loans. The big banks ran to Washington when their deadbeat Third
          World borrowers couldn't pay. Now a gaggle of homeowners, mortgage
          lenders, and investors are marching, their hands eagerly
          outstretched. The once robust subprime mortgage market has
          collapsed. As long as housing prices were rising, home loans
          > seemed like a sure thing. A poor credit risk? No problem. Some
          lender would find a "creative" way to finance your house. Get into
          financial trouble? Just sell or refinance. Everyone still came out
          ahead. So investors started buying subprime loans. Not just big
          name hedge funds, but common mutual funds. With money to be made, no
          one seemed to worry much about the risk they were running. But home
          sales cooled, prices fell, and foreclosures rose. Suddenly homeowners
          can't pay their mortgages, lenders are stuck with hard-to-sell
          houses, and investors are taking a bath. The losses could run $100 to
          $200 billion. Once upon a time Americans would have accepted
          responsibility for their mistakes, taken the painful financial hit,
          and moved on, wounded but wiser. No longer. If money wasn't made, it
          must be someone else's fault. Thus, those at risk are telling elected
          officials: If I'm losing money, there's a crisis, so DO SOMETHING!
          Unfortunately, politicians are listening.
          > For instance, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has created a $250
          million bailout fund that will refinance bad loans, putting the
          taxpayers at risk. Proposals abound in New York, Pennsylvania, and
          elsewhere to follow suit. With the stock market taking a hit from
          the burst of the subprime market bubble, bailout advocates are now
          making a run on Washington. Some want to turn the nonpartisan Federal
          Reserve into the housing industry's political piggy bank. William
          Gross, head of PIMCO, a giant bond mutual fund, has called for
          creation of a "Reconstruction Mortgage Corporation" to toss money
          hither and yon. He poses as the defender of helpless homeowners, who
          otherwise would "be thrown to the wolves." But the investment
          portfolios of his clients likely weigh more heavily on his mind. And
          nothing is too good for those paying his fees, especially if the bill
          for helping them goes to the taxpayers. The mortgage meltdown is
          painful, but just one in 20 loans are "creative,"
          > and only some of them are going bad. A decline in housing prices
          reduces Americans' paper wealth, not their living standard, since
          their home doesn't change. And those who would reap the gains from a
          rising market cannot complain when prices fall. William Gross and
          others nevertheless paint the subprime lending mess as a crisis, but
          that's not true. Although no one likes to lose $100 or $200 billion,
          the U.S. economy is $13 trillion and growing. One of the advantages
          of living in a wealthy society is that one can better weather
          economic storms. America is not Bangladesh. We will thrive even if
          housing prices stall. Perhaps the worst consequence of a subprime
          bailout is to set the stage for more bailouts in the future. Gross
          himself cites the Chrysler and S&L bailouts as a reason to cover
          housing losses. In turn, the victims of the next bursting economic
          bubble — information technology, perhaps, or health care, or machine
          tools, or whatever — would cite any subprime
          > bailout. America's capitalist system is the envy of the world.
          But the U.S. economy works so well only so long as the government
          lets the market adjust, no matter how painful the process is for some
          people. Participants in the subprime market took their profits when
          prices were rising. They should accept their losses now that the
          market has gone bust. If Joe Taxpayer has to play by the rules, so
          do those who profited handsomely from the mortgage business who now
          have their hand out asking to be rescued. Congress and the President
          should hold firm against those lobbying for a taxpayer financed
          bailout of Wall Street. Call or write the President and your
          representatives and tell them not to waste your hard earned money on
          subsidies for Wall Street bankers who are afraid that they won't get
          their obscene end of year bonuses without your help. Lew Uhler is
          President of the National Tax Limitation Committee.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ###### Visit www.stoptaxpayerbai lout.com
          >
          >
          >
          >
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        • Eric Reinhardt
          Agree with you objective here Michael with respect to building an electoral coalition. With respect to Ron Paul, I recently heard him being interviewed, and
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 11, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Agree with you objective here Michael with respect to building an
            electoral coalition. With respect to Ron Paul, I recently heard him
            being interviewed, and the question was asked if he'd run third party
            if he didn't get the nomination. He basically nixed the idea outright
            saying that it requires "too much effort" to get on the ballot in all
            the states. Sounded like he just didn't have the energy for it. A bit
            surprising. You'd think his people would be thinking ahead in this
            regard---maybe some have.
            I've checked out Unity 08 and have made some posts at their forum.
            The main problem I see with them is that their leadership still wants
            to retain the Republican and Democratic political party structure.
            They realize that there are problems with both parties, but they just
            can't seem to get over the hump and jump ship. They believe reform is
            possible from within still which I think is very naive. The last I
            checked in with them they were trying to formulate some kind of
            national ticket and platform. Will check on them again to see what
            they are up to.

            Also, will check out your links. Agree with your philosophy that the
            goal has to be to win, which has been seemingly lacking to date in
            many third party efforts.




            --- In NationalConstitutionalConvention06@yahoogroups.com, Michael
            Bindner <christianlibertarianparty@...> wrote:
            >
            > Eric,
            >
            > You are absolutely right on all points.
            >
            > I would like to add that building an electoral coalition to do
            these things is also essential. One fertile ground my be Unity08,
            which has quite a few Paulists on it. I think the Ron Paul campaign
            is planning to hijack it, but you didn't hear it from me. I am only
            speculating anyway, but I can read the tea leaves. Since his
            political director is associated with the Libertarian Reform Caucus -
            and he himself is a frequent contributor to its magazine, the Free
            Liberal, my bet is that something more broad based than the LP will
            be sought for a general election run, especially as he indicated he
            would not support the GOP nominee if it was not him. I think he is
            betting on enough Hillary heartburn to run as an independent,
            although he may well take off in the GOP.
            >
            > One of the former members of the Libertarian Reform Caucus, Dr.
            Carl Milstead, is exploring the formation of a new party. He is
            leaning toward calling it the Human Rights Party. My vote is to call
            it the Equity Party, since the Human Rights Party was originally a
            socialist leaning party in Detroit in the 60s. Go to these links to
            check out what he has written so far, as well as my links, where I
            say much of the same stuff but from a different perspective.
            > http://www.holisticpolitics.org/Home/PageOne.php
            > http://www.quiz2d.com/essays/plan/
            >
            > Eventually, a group of us with common principles must get
            together and organize with the intention of winning, rather than just
            making a statement (as you find in the Libertarian Party and in a
            certain extent in the Green Party of the US).
            >
            > Eric Reinhardt <ericreinhardt2003@...> wrote:
            > Just wanted to expound a little more with respect to
            Jerry's ideas.
            > As previously mentioned, I sympathize with his position with
            respect
            > to getting right to the heart of matters and getting 38 states to
            > ratify an amendment or amendments. I've always been one for
            > streamlining things and not wasting time and efforts. However, I
            have
            > seen a lot of good efforts in the past, particulary on
            > initiative/referendum issues , wasted because proper procedures
            > weren't followed. With respect to the latter, I have seen failed
            > efforts due to failure to meet deadlines, failure to follow
            explicit
            > instructions with respect to ballot wording(either with respect to
            > the number of words or the number of issues), invalid signatures
            etc.
            > No doubt many of you have too. It's truly sad day when you see a
            > judge throw out many, many months and hours of hard work and
            efforts,
            > but that is the case when PROPER PROCEDURES aren't followed. We may
            > not like it, but it always comes down to the law.
            >
            > In any event, say if things went as Jerry has proposed and 38
            states
            > agreed to and passed an amendment, and then declared that this was
            > now the law of the land. Then say one of the federal "elites" or
            > maybe even just a hotshot lawyer trying to make a name for himself
            > comes around and files a federal lawsuit claiming that this action
            is
            > invalid because the Constitution wasn't followed. The argument will
            > simply be that the states must first petition Congress as per
            Article
            > V to have a Convention, and then that the Congress must specify the
            > manner of voting on any forthcoming amendments( via state
            > legislatures or state conventions), as this is how the Constitution
            > specifies the manner in which the amendment procedure must occur.
            > I can say with almost 100% certainty that the judge will decide in
            > favor of the "elitist" or lawyer simply because the LAW was not
            > followed. We may not like it, but this is how things operate in the
            > legislative/judicial world. So the bottom line is that to insure
            that
            > time and effort is not wasted, we should follow Article V closely
            to
            > avoid legal problems.
            >
            > Also, in view of the fact that autonomous regional government is
            the
            > goal of this Convention proposal and that many details/specifics
            have
            > to be worked out(which states going into which regions, continental
            > defense plans etc.), a Convention will provide a practical forum
            for
            > these matters to be discussed and ironed out. It is much easier to
            > coordinate things with all the states under one roof at the same
            time.
            >
            > --- In NationalConstitutionalConvention06@yahoogroups.com, jerry
            > johnson <ifightit@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Everyone! Your stated purpose is to acomplish the call for a
            > National Constitutional Convebntion. We all know that that event
            > will NEVER occur via way of Article 5. One must bypass Congress.
            Why
            > not use the upcoming meet as a Convention in and by itself.
            > Participants should draft one or more Amendments and submit it or
            > them directly to the State Legislature under a Heading Letter. The
            > ratification of 38 State Legislatures of the same proposed
            Amendment
            > is the bottom line of ANY amendment process. The subjects of
            > orrigination, process, proceedures and constitutionality are all
            moot
            > if 38 State ratify. Why waste time,effort, and money talking about
            > possibilities and , ideas and proocedures when you can ACT. I
            > already have the AMENDMENT, if ratified it will allow the States to
            > correct and solve nearly every political problem we have in this
            > Nation.. I plan to attend the meet on the 19th and present my
            > proposal to the group. Please consider this proposal. Jerry Johnson
            > > - GOP Presidential Candidate
            > >
            > > Eric Reinhardt <ericreinhardt2003@> wrote:
            > >
            > > "NewsMax.com" <newsmax@> wrote:
            > > Dear NewsMax Reader:
            > > Please find below a special message from our sponsor, National
            > Tax Limitation Committee. They have some important information to
            > share with you.
            > > Thank you.
            > > NewsMax.com
            > >
            > > No More Bailouts
            > > By Lew Uhler
            > > Everyone is for free markets when times are good. Borrowers,
            > lenders, builders, investors, manufacturers, retailers — everyone.
            As
            > long as they are making money, they want the government to stay out
            > of their affairs. Cut regulation and taxes, and they are happy. But
            > the moment someone goes bust, money gets tight, or the economy
            slows,
            > people start screaming for a bailout. Never mind if they knowingly
            > made a risky investment. Never mind if they collected healthy
            profits
            > until things went south. Wouldn't the taxpayers be so kind as to
            > cover their losses? Chrysler squeezed a loan guarantee out of
            > Congress. Washington provided a massive bailout of the savings and
            > loans. The big banks ran to Washington when their deadbeat Third
            > World borrowers couldn't pay. Now a gaggle of homeowners, mortgage
            > lenders, and investors are marching, their hands eagerly
            > outstretched. The once robust subprime mortgage market has
            > collapsed. As long as housing prices were rising, home loans
            > > seemed like a sure thing. A poor credit risk? No problem. Some
            > lender would find a "creative" way to finance your house. Get into
            > financial trouble? Just sell or refinance. Everyone still came out
            > ahead. So investors started buying subprime loans. Not just big
            > name hedge funds, but common mutual funds. With money to be made,
            no
            > one seemed to worry much about the risk they were running. But home
            > sales cooled, prices fell, and foreclosures rose. Suddenly
            homeowners
            > can't pay their mortgages, lenders are stuck with hard-to-sell
            > houses, and investors are taking a bath. The losses could run $100
            to
            > $200 billion. Once upon a time Americans would have accepted
            > responsibility for their mistakes, taken the painful financial hit,
            > and moved on, wounded but wiser. No longer. If money wasn't made,
            it
            > must be someone else's fault. Thus, those at risk are telling
            elected
            > officials: If I'm losing money, there's a crisis, so DO SOMETHING!
            > Unfortunately, politicians are listening.
            > > For instance, Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick has created a $250
            > million bailout fund that will refinance bad loans, putting the
            > taxpayers at risk. Proposals abound in New York, Pennsylvania, and
            > elsewhere to follow suit. With the stock market taking a hit from
            > the burst of the subprime market bubble, bailout advocates are now
            > making a run on Washington. Some want to turn the nonpartisan
            Federal
            > Reserve into the housing industry's political piggy bank. William
            > Gross, head of PIMCO, a giant bond mutual fund, has called for
            > creation of a "Reconstruction Mortgage Corporation" to toss money
            > hither and yon. He poses as the defender of helpless homeowners,
            who
            > otherwise would "be thrown to the wolves." But the investment
            > portfolios of his clients likely weigh more heavily on his mind.
            And
            > nothing is too good for those paying his fees, especially if the
            bill
            > for helping them goes to the taxpayers. The mortgage meltdown is
            > painful, but just one in 20 loans are "creative,"
            > > and only some of them are going bad. A decline in housing prices
            > reduces Americans' paper wealth, not their living standard, since
            > their home doesn't change. And those who would reap the gains from
            a
            > rising market cannot complain when prices fall. William Gross and
            > others nevertheless paint the subprime lending mess as a crisis,
            but
            > that's not true. Although no one likes to lose $100 or $200
            billion,
            > the U.S. economy is $13 trillion and growing. One of the advantages
            > of living in a wealthy society is that one can better weather
            > economic storms. America is not Bangladesh. We will thrive even if
            > housing prices stall. Perhaps the worst consequence of a subprime
            > bailout is to set the stage for more bailouts in the future. Gross
            > himself cites the Chrysler and S&L bailouts as a reason to cover
            > housing losses. In turn, the victims of the next bursting economic
            > bubble — information technology, perhaps, or health care, or
            machine
            > tools, or whatever — would cite any subprime
            > > bailout. America's capitalist system is the envy of the world.
            > But the U.S. economy works so well only so long as the government
            > lets the market adjust, no matter how painful the process is for
            some
            > people. Participants in the subprime market took their profits when
            > prices were rising. They should accept their losses now that the
            > market has gone bust. If Joe Taxpayer has to play by the rules, so
            > do those who profited handsomely from the mortgage business who now
            > have their hand out asking to be rescued. Congress and the
            President
            > should hold firm against those lobbying for a taxpayer financed
            > bailout of Wall Street. Call or write the President and your
            > representatives and tell them not to waste your hard earned money
            on
            > subsidies for Wall Street bankers who are afraid that they won't
            get
            > their obscene end of year bonuses without your help. Lew Uhler is
            > President of the National Tax Limitation Committee.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ###### Visit www.stoptaxpayerbailout.com
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
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            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the
            > hottest shows on Yahoo! TV.
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            > >
            > >
            > > ---------------------------------
            > > Building a website is a piece of cake.
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            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Michael Bindner
            >
            >
            > The Site
            > http://www.geocities.com/christianlibertarianparty/index.html
            >
            > The Group
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/christian_libertarian/
            >
            > The Blog
            > http://xianlp.blogspot.com/
            >
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