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Re: justice

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  • bondzai
    This is the way it is.... its sort of like the question about how come the east got the spirituality and the west got the money... the answer was ... the west
    Message 1 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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      This is the way it is.... its sort of like the question about how
      come the east got the spirituality and the west got the money... the
      answer was ... the west got first pick

      --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, yosyflug <yosyflug@i...> wrote:
      > (posted on another group)
      >
      > a group of people asked nasrudin to divide justly some fruit
      between them.
      > "there is human justice and allah's justice. which one you want?"
      asked
      > nasrudin. "why, allah's justice, of course!" said the men.
      > so nasrudin gave one a big pile, the second one a handful, third
      just a few,
      > another one a whole lot again etc. then he removed some from the
      smallest
      > pile and added to the bigest... "what are you doing, nasrudin?!"
      they asked
      > in amazement. "well, you wanted divine justice, no? if you wanted
      human
      > justice, i would have divided them equally" said nasrudin leaving.
      >
      >
      > @}->,->'--
      > yosy
      >
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • bondzai
      ... and gods will, and says so in times of tragedy and good fortune. Like a friend dying, and everyone saying its gods will . But how do you know? Just
      Message 2 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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        --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, jnsn583@a... wrote:
        > How do you all understand this ?
        > Maybe it is a play on words; Everyone has ideas abouts gods justice
        and gods will, and says so in times of tragedy and good fortune. Like a
        friend dying, and everyone saying "its gods will". But how do you know?


        Just suppose for a second there is no such thing as God or God's will.
        Then how would it be if there was fact or reality.... Like Katrina Hit
        Mississippi. Could you understand that? Well, maybe Fact Reality and
        Truth are more appropriate terms... But if then you conceive there is
        a guy in a control room way up in the sky who is pulling all the
        strings so as in the Koran or some other place it says.... Not a leaf
        does dare shudder without his command... can you then see it is all
        God's will?

        But I suppose you could also conceive of another God who doesn't
        control things. Then you could say that it was NOT God's will. But I
        think the definition of God is who is in control right?

        I heard a saying by Byron Katie which was interesting.

        She said, "I surrender to reality because it rules".

        And that makes sense to me.

        Now it might not hurt to also conceive that that reality is controlled
        by a person way up in the sky.

        Question is... Is God in Charge? Or Not?
      • Suriya Osman
        About the tragedy, one of my teachers has a blog and we are discussing about Katrina. If you want to join visit http://thesovereignsoul.blogspot.com/ Suriya
        Message 3 of 19 , Sep 1, 2005
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          About the tragedy, one of my teachers has a blog and we are discussing
          about Katrina.
          If you want to join visit
          http://thesovereignsoul.blogspot.com/

          Suriya


          --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, "bondzai" <bondzai@y...> wrote:
          > --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, jnsn583@a... wrote:
          > > How do you all understand this ?
          > > Maybe it is a play on words; Everyone has ideas abouts gods justice
          > and gods will, and says so in times of tragedy and good fortune. Like a
          > friend dying, and everyone saying "its gods will". But how do you know?
          >
        • Ed Jason
          ... Not In Buddhism ideas and fashions of eternal gods come and go but reality is for ever This area of suchness and emptiness (the extreme of existent and
          Message 4 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
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            bondzai wrote:
            > She said, "I surrender to reality because it rules".
            >
            > Question is... Is God in Charge? Or Not?
            >

            Not

            In Buddhism ideas and fashions of eternal gods come and go
            but reality is for ever

            This area of suchness and emptiness
            (the extreme of existent and unmanifest, uncreated deity)
            is summed up thus:

            The Absolute does not exist
            Existence - absolutely exists

            "Nasrudin why do you never mention God in your sermons?"
            Nasrudin replied, "there is Nothing to talk about."

            You will notice that despite the evidence that it is meaningless
            people are capable of racism, war, music and religion
            Keeps them stimulated

            "Nasrudin why do you always say you HAVE to believe in God?"
            "If I did not," said Nasrudin there would be Nothing to pray to."

            All too often people believe spirituality
            is not about Truth
            but amusement

            - so anyone know any jokes?
          • jnsn583@aol.com
            I was watching this show on angor wat, in cambodia near thailand the other day, and its about this ancient yet abandoned ruins greatly influenced by buddhist
            Message 5 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
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              I was watching this show on angor wat, in cambodia near thailand the other day, and its about this ancient yet abandoned ruins greatly influenced by buddhist and hindu culture. In about the year 1200 or 1400, it was entirely abandoned, only to be rediscovered in the early 1900,s.

              On the wall, in there art, this show pointed out a recipe for immortality, a legend in that area. The image showed 2 ropes coming from a cauldron type thing where they were brewing some medicinal alchemical soup or something. And holding the ropes to the left were the gods, 100's of them back to back, pulling at the rope; and to the right were hundreds of demons back to back pulling at the rope. All engaged in some cosmic 'tug of war' , and the friction, the stress from there opposition is producing this elixer of immortality. I don't know if this has any significance to anyone else? ( Almost like the opposition between God and Devil- and were right in the middle of this cosmic war, metaphorically )


              Also about truth: More and more I start to see the importance of truth. In all aspects of life, in every other quality. For instance love; you may have a person in whom you invest alot of yourself in, and how much does it mess up the relationship when you find out they are being dishonest with you. Or friendship, if your friends are lying to you about things, it makes you question how important authentic and truthful relationship to people is. If you imagine that evrything in your life is full of deception and lies, like your friendships and love, you see how important reality and truth are. This is the world of lies though, as khidr says. I appreciate your thoughts Ale. When we ask a question, what is the motive behind it? Is it something we really want to know, something we are willing to pay in some sense to know (burning question !) or is the question just worthless to us, or is it significant for even more everyday life concerns like asking directions, ect.

              People in various traditions refer to God as the Beloved, the Friend, the Father, is another intersting thing I was thinking about the other day, mainly in the prophetic traditions. And thats what alot life is, our relationship to friends, lovers, and family. What about god as Coworker- neighbor, aquantance, stranger, ect..

              P.s. I saw mulla the other day, he said he was trapped on his roof in new orleans.





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • yosyx
              ... other day, and its about this ancient yet abandoned ruins greatly influenced by buddhist and hindu culture. In about the year 1200 or 1400, it was entirely
              Message 6 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
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                --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, jnsn583@a... wrote:
                > I was watching this show on angor wat, in cambodia near thailand the
                other day, and its about this ancient yet abandoned ruins greatly
                influenced by buddhist and hindu culture. In about the year 1200 or
                1400, it was entirely abandoned, only to be rediscovered in the early
                1900,s.
                >
                > On the wall, in there art, this show pointed out a recipe for
                immortality, a legend in that area. The image showed 2 ropes coming
                from a cauldron type thing where they were brewing some medicinal
                alchemical soup or something. And holding the ropes to the left were
                the gods, 100's of them back to back, pulling at the rope; and to the
                right were hundreds of demons back to back pulling at the rope. All
                engaged in some cosmic 'tug of war' , and the friction, the stress
                from there opposition is producing this elixer of immortality. I don't
                know if this has any significance to anyone else? ( Almost like the
                opposition between God and Devil- and were right in the middle of this
                cosmic war, metaphorically )
                >



                :) this seems to be a representation of the hindu myth of creation, in
                which the devas ("divine" beings) fought against the asuras ("the
                'diabolical'), and their combined effort resulted in churning the sea
                of milk, producing the nectar of immortality, which turned into
                life-threatening poison, which was consumed by siva (= time) giving
                him a blue throat... or am i mixing things up?



                >
                > Also about truth: More and more I start to see the importance of
                truth. In all aspects of life, in every other quality. For instance
                love; you may have a person in whom you invest alot of yourself in,
                and how much does it mess up the relationship when you find out they
                are being dishonest with you. Or friendship, if your friends are lying
                to you about things, it makes you question how important authentic and
                truthful relationship to people is. If you imagine that evrything in
                your life is full of deception and lies, like your friendships and
                love, you see how important reality and truth are. This is the world
                of lies though, as khidr says. I appreciate your thoughts Ale. When we
                ask a question, what is the motive behind it? Is it something we
                really want to know, something we are willing to pay in some sense to
                know (burning question !) or is the question just worthless to us, or
                is it significant for even more everyday life concerns like asking
                directions, ect.



                "truth" said nasrudin "is something i never said - nor will i ever"

                but it is easily revealed... depending on how/where, when - and capacity.



                >
                > People in various traditions refer to God as the Beloved, the
                Friend, the Father, is another intersting thing I was thinking about
                the other day, mainly in the prophetic traditions. And thats what
                alot life is, our relationship to friends, lovers, and family. What
                about god as Coworker- neighbor, aquantance, stranger, ect..



                :) yes. "the path" is practically a combination of behaviour/manners
                and relationships...



                >
                > P.s. I saw mulla the other day, he said he was trapped on his roof
                in new orleans.
                >
                >
                >
                >

                sorry to inform you that this friend of ours, trusting totally god's
                grace, declined offers of a neighbours boat ride, a coast guard boat
                rescue, and even a chopper, and thus had to present himself in the
                world of truth... and he had the cheek to complain!

                yosy
              • Barry Stock
                If he got those, he is very lucky. I doubt he did, so probably he has no complaints. (:-(
                Message 7 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
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                  If he got those, he is very lucky. I doubt he did, so probably he has
                  no complaints.

                  (:-(

                  On Sep 2, 2005, at 5:54 PM, yosyx wrote:

                  > sorry to inform you that this friend of ours, trusting totally god's
                  > grace, declined offers of a neighbours boat ride, a coast guard boat
                  > rescue, and even a chopper, and thus had to present himself in the
                  > world of truth... and he had the cheek to complain!
                  >
                  > yosy
                  >
                • yosyx
                  ... yes he was lucky. but he declined all the offers to help saying: it s allright. god will save me! when he drowned and complained that god did not save
                  Message 8 of 19 , Sep 2, 2005
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                    --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, Barry Stock <barrystock@m...> wrote:
                    > If he got those, he is very lucky. I doubt he did, so probably he has
                    > no complaints.
                    >
                    > (:-(
                    >


                    yes he was lucky. but he declined all the offers to help saying: "it's
                    allright. god will save me!"
                    when he drowned and complained that god did not save him, god said: "i
                    sent you two boats and a chopper. what else did you want?!"



                    btw, often accepting assistance is far more difficult than giving
                    it... it takes humility.




                    > On Sep 2, 2005, at 5:54 PM, yosyx wrote:
                    >
                    > > sorry to inform you that this friend of ours, trusting totally god's
                    > > grace, declined offers of a neighbours boat ride, a coast guard boat
                    > > rescue, and even a chopper, and thus had to present himself in the
                    > > world of truth... and he had the cheek to complain!
                    > >
                    > > yosy
                    > >
                  • yosyx
                    ... nasrudin, why did you hit him? i just hit him back but i saw you hit him first! right. i hit him back first
                    Message 9 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
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                      --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, Ed Jason <zen45800@z...> wrote:
                      > yosyx wrote:
                      > > btw, often accepting assistance is far more difficult than giving
                      > > it... it takes humility.
                      > >
                      >
                      > I must be very humble - I'll take all I can get
                      > Prayers and money transfers to the usual channels
                      >
                      > In fact as Nasrudin informed me:
                      >
                      > "A really humble man takes
                      > before it is offered - to ensure the virtue
                      > of the giver"
                      >
                      > :)
                      >
                      > and hey be careful out there . . .


                      :))

                      "nasrudin, why did you hit him?"
                      "i just hit him back"
                      "but i saw you hit him first!"
                      "right. i hit him back first"
                    • Ed Jason
                      ... I must be very humble - I ll take all I can get Prayers and money transfers to the usual channels In fact as Nasrudin informed me: A really humble man
                      Message 10 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
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                        yosyx wrote:
                        > btw, often accepting assistance is far more difficult than giving
                        > it... it takes humility.
                        >

                        I must be very humble - I'll take all I can get
                        Prayers and money transfers to the usual channels

                        In fact as Nasrudin informed me:

                        "A really humble man takes
                        before it is offered - to ensure the virtue
                        of the giver"

                        :)

                        and hey be careful out there . . .
                      • bondzai
                        I ve heard that to get humility a person can beg for food from their enemy.
                        Message 11 of 19 , Sep 3, 2005
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                          I've heard that to get humility a person can beg for food from their
                          enemy.
                        • jnsn583@aol.com
                          Yes that is the real legend yosy, it is a sea of milk- but i never never knewn the elixer bacame poison, and was drunk by siva- the merciless haeropass. Also-
                          Message 12 of 19 , Sep 6, 2005
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                            Yes that is the real legend yosy, it is a sea of milk- but i never never knewn the elixer bacame poison, and was drunk by siva- the merciless haeropass.

                            Also- all soup has lumps in it !!! just joking- i like miso soup.



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: yosyx <yosyflug@...>
                            To: Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, 03 Sep 2005 13:09:36 -0000
                            Subject: [Nasrudin] Re: recipe for immortality, truth


                            --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, Ed Jason <zen45800@z...> wrote:
                            > yosyx wrote:
                            > > btw, often accepting assistance is far more difficult than giving
                            > > it... it takes humility.
                            > >
                            >
                            > I must be very humble - I'll take all I can get
                            > Prayers and money transfers to the usual channels
                            >
                            > In fact as Nasrudin informed me:
                            >
                            > "A really humble man takes
                            > before it is offered - to ensure the virtue
                            > of the giver"
                            >
                            > :)
                            >
                            > and hey be careful out there . . .


                            :))

                            "nasrudin, why did you hit him?"
                            "i just hit him back"
                            "but i saw you hit him first!"
                            "right. i hit him back first"






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                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • yosyx
                            ... never knewn the elixer bacame poison, and was drunk by siva- the merciless haeropass. haeropass? what s that?
                            Message 13 of 19 , Sep 6, 2005
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                              --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, jnsn583@a... wrote:
                              > Yes that is the real legend yosy, it is a sea of milk- but i never
                              never knewn the elixer bacame poison, and was drunk by siva- the
                              merciless haeropass.



                              haeropass? what's that?



                              >
                              > Also- all soup has lumps in it !!! just joking- i like miso soup.
                              >
                              >
                            • Barry Stock
                              The Merciless Heropass = Time.
                              Message 14 of 19 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                The Merciless Heropass = Time.

                                On Sep 6, 2005, at 6:09 PM, yosyx wrote:

                                > haeropass? what's that?
                                >
                              • yosyx
                                ... oh yes. thank you. yosy (just like cronos/saturn, who devours his own children in the greek/roman mythology)
                                Message 15 of 19 , Sep 6, 2005
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                                  --- In Nasrudin@yahoogroups.com, Barry Stock <barrystock@m...> wrote:
                                  > The Merciless Heropass = Time.


                                  oh yes. thank you.

                                  yosy

                                  (just like cronos/saturn, who devours his own children in the
                                  greek/roman mythology)


                                  >
                                  > On Sep 6, 2005, at 6:09 PM, yosyx wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > haeropass? what's that?
                                  > >
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