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Re: Being a "Guru"

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  • Germaine Hornsby
    ... case. ... Thank, Ed for another perspective on this subject.. As for my questions, I think that if you read them again, you ll notice that each question is
    Message 1 of 3 , May 3, 1999
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      > BEING A GURU p138-139
      >
      > Idries Shah makes the point elsewhere that the overiding impulse of the
      > person who wishes to align with Sufism is to Learn. This is a form of
      > greed but it is also a form of greed that will lead to its own
      > dissipation. As we begin to understand the obstacles to learning, we
      > see that our opinion of ourself, our need for a teacher, our intense greed
      > to make progress would cloud any relationship with some situation or
      > person able to provide Real Knowledge.
      > Some people can not help acting in a manner that creates respect and
      > authority and puts them in the position of a guru. Similarly others have
      > tendencies to become disciples and dependents. However both types of
      > people are aligned with their tendencies and not the higher possibility.
      > People assume that the 'Shayk' or leader of a tariqa or Sufi circle must
      > be the person of highest attainment in that group. This is not always the
      case.
      > Spiritual authority resides in some very unlikely and unsuspected people.
      > Beggars, drunkards, weirdos and others who challange our sense of norms
      > may create situations that provide an impetus that no formal practice can
      > ever match.
      >
      > Now my tendency (to act in a teaching capacity) could be used to answer
      > the following questions:
      >
      > > But what of the bond that develops between teacher and student?
      > > Rumi calls it a 'oneness with the heart of the teacher'. Could a
      > > student learn from someone he didn't admire and love?
      >
      > > And why do the Sufis stress the importance of having a teacher if
      > > they don't want the student to feel this attachment that supposedly
      > > last -even after the death of the teacher? Granted..there's a difference
      > > between leaning and learning..
      > > But if, in the beginning, the student could go it alone, he
      > > wouldn't need anyone..
      >
      > However in reading this piece I feel it better to ask the questions.
      > Perhaps someone with the tendencies to ask questions might provide
      > some answers . .

      :)
      Thank, Ed for another perspective on this subject..

      As for my questions, I think that if you read them again, you'll notice
      that each question is followed by another question or statement
      that is really an answer...
      For me anyway..
      I'll try to write with fewer question marks in the future..
      but then..you'll think that I'm sure of myself..?
      Oops..didn't mean to ask another question..

      Germaine
    • Germaine Hornsby
      Sorry, my friends. This one got away from me and went to the wrong study. What would Nasrudin have said? What..! Another question..? love Germaine
      Message 2 of 3 , May 3, 1999
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        Sorry, my friends.
        This one got away from me and went to the wrong study.

        What would Nasrudin have said?
        "What..! Another question..?"

        love
        Germaine
      • wime
        Dear Germaine, I hope you do not mind that I give some reactions to the begiining part of the statement quoted below: 1. If the desire of the person wishing to
        Message 3 of 3 , May 4, 1999
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          Dear Germaine,

          I hope you do not mind that I give some reactions to the begiining part
          of the statement quoted below:

          1. If the desire of the person wishing to align with Sufism is to learn,
          then I do not mind at all. Of course this desire should become a
          well-directed one, but it is one of the few desires on the spiritual
          path which is acceptable.
          2. From beggars, drunkards one may get some teaching, but it is in most
          cases an ill-directed type of teaching. In the Eastern world there are
          technical terms for such people like miskeen, mahjub, etc. The people of
          the last category are attracted by the divine and because of the force
          behind it all they loose their senses. Any guidance that is coming out
          of them is quite accidental. The shaykh/murshid when being a mahjub
          should have made (afterwards) the spiritual journey once again in a
          sober way in order to be able to guide other people in such a way that
          they can benefit.
          3. In case of a heriditary succession in a tariqa the successor may not
          be the spiritually most deserving one. This can be seen as a degradation
          of Sufism. The center of (real) teachings will after some time change
          towards the person with the actual spiritual authority. It is not
          necessary that this is shown on the outside by ranks and titles, etc.
          Greetings,
          Siraj

          Germaine Hornsby wrote:
          >
          > From: "Germaine Hornsby" <ghornsby@...>
          >
          > > BEING A GURU p138-139
          > >
          > > Idries Shah makes the point elsewhere that the overiding impulse of the
          > > person who wishes to align with Sufism is to Learn. This is a form of
          > > greed but it is also a form of greed that will lead to its own
          > > dissipation. As we begin to understand the obstacles to learning, we
          > > see that our opinion of ourself, our need for a teacher, our intense greed
          > > to make progress would cloud any relationship with some situation or
          > > person able to provide Real Knowledge.
          > > Some people can not help acting in a manner that creates respect and
          > > authority and puts them in the position of a guru. Similarly others have
          > > tendencies to become disciples and dependents. However both types of
          > > people are aligned with their tendencies and not the higher possibility.
          > > People assume that the 'Shayk' or leader of a tariqa or Sufi circle must
          > > be the person of highest attainment in that group. This is not always the
          > case.
          > > Spiritual authority resides in some very unlikely and unsuspected people.
          > > Beggars, drunkards, weirdos and others who challange our sense of norms
          > > may create situations that provide an impetus that no formal practice can
          > > ever match.
          > >
          > > Now my tendency (to act in a teaching capacity) could be used to answer
          > > the following questions:
          > >
          > > > But what of the bond that develops between teacher and student?
          > > > Rumi calls it a 'oneness with the heart of the teacher'. Could a
          > > > student learn from someone he didn't admire and love?
          > >
          > > > And why do the Sufis stress the importance of having a teacher if
          > > > they don't want the student to feel this attachment that supposedly
          > > > last -even after the death of the teacher? Granted..there's a difference
          > > > between leaning and learning..
          > > > But if, in the beginning, the student could go it alone, he
          > > > wouldn't need anyone..
          > >
          > > However in reading this piece I feel it better to ask the questions.
          > > Perhaps someone with the tendencies to ask questions might provide
          > > some answers . .
          >
          > :)
          > Thank, Ed for another perspective on this subject..
          >
          > As for my questions, I think that if you read them again, you'll notice
          > that each question is followed by another question or statement
          > that is really an answer...
          > For me anyway..
          > I'll try to write with fewer question marks in the future..
          > but then..you'll think that I'm sure of myself..?
          > Oops..didn't mean to ask another question..
          >
          > Germaine
          >
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