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Re: [NapoleonicFireandFury] Victory Points

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  • Drew Jarman
    Kevin I agree with your ideas. Trouble is the only important general is the CinC and if any generals are Charismatic. Other than that they have no value in the
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 1, 2011
      Kevin

      I agree with your ideas. Trouble is the only important general is the CinC and if any generals are Charismatic. Other than that they have no value in the game apart from their ability to give a +1 to orders in chain of command and attach artillery or themselves to brigades.

      The AoE spreadsheet gives generals a value in its table and may go some way to making for game balance, but imagine the situation where the Superior C3 of the Napoleonic French corps system is compared to the more traditional C3 of the previous century. The French have a lot more generals around when compared to their enemies and this is hard to replicate in most systems if using a points value.

      I tend to design fantasy what if games based on specific scenarios and victory conditions. Or just make them game specific in that X has to do this to win and Y has to stop them to win.

      My 1807 Junot @ Abrantes game was a case of this and it made both sides focus their game to achieve their victory conditions. I ran the game and played the Portuguese so it tested the French side players knowledge of the rules and gave them a learning experience and many differing options to win, which they eventually did after suffering some high casualties.

      Games do not have to be balanced to be fun as history shows us that rarely are Napoleonic battles balanced.

      Drew




      Drew,

      I'm not so much interested in the VP part of it as I am in trying to set up non-historical battles that have some balance.

      And while a tactical victory may not result in operational or strategic success, one can adjust victory conditions to somewhat reflect the operational or strategic reality. For Borodino, French casualties should be a factor...either by setting conditions based on %s or, if you want to use VP, by making French units more valuable than the Russians when counting casualties. For Ligny, the premium might be on time left til dark and/or maintaining fresh Light Cavalry to conduct a vigorous pursuit after the battle.

      The interesting thing is to make the Generals expensive if they are good and cheap if they are.......

      Kevin

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Drew Jarman <mailto:andrewjarman%40ntlworld.com>
      To: NapoleonicFireandFury <mailto:NapoleonicFireandFury%40yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Mon, Oct 31, 2011 5:18 am
      Subject: Re: [NapoleonicFireandFury] Victory Points

      Kevin

      I guess you can base the total brigade value on the points system I outlined and then multiply it by the number of stands in each brigade?

      Then you could tally the who brigades lost plus the individual stands from other remaining but reduced brigades to get some sort of points value to Victory or Defeat.

      It’s not really relevant in Napoleonic battles as a stunning tactical victory could still be a strategic defeat, look at Borodino and Ligny as two examples.

      Drew

      From: Kevin Slimak
      Sent: Monday, October 31, 2011 3:48 AM
      To: mailto:NapoleonicFireandFury%40yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [NapoleonicFireandFury] Victory Points

      Drew,

      I'm surprised that you haven't been struck down by a ton of comments. You said points....one of the unmentionable subjects here! :-)

      Seriously, I don't think VP value really works...then again, I think that the VP has to be a function of both quality and quantity. A 12 stand brigade is worth more than a 6 stand brigade! How much more.....well, that's a harder thing to establish.

      I once did a point system for ACW (JR2 to be exact) based on the Lanchester Square Law. It didn't work as first proposed (mostly because the fire tables didn't track it well), but we went through some 7 versions and (treating points like a market value....adjusting raising prices if lots of people bought something, and dropping them if few people did) finally came up with something that worked pretty well.

      I'd be willing to bet that something similar could be done with AoE. I don't think it would track the Square Law directly (firing tables are pretty linear with # of stands). I'd probably start with something like a 1.5 power...and make the quality modifier linear.

      Well, let's see if this sets of the tsunami!

      Kevin

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Drew Jarman <mailto:andrewjarman%40ntlworld.com>;
      To: NapoleonicFireandFury <mailto:NapoleonicFireandFury%40yahoogroups.com>;
      Sent: Sun, Oct 30, 2011 5:27 am
      Subject: Re: [NapoleonicFireandFury] Victory Points

      David

      Surely all that means is it is effectively easier to cause the irregular brigades to break and flee off he battlefield and is quite historic.

      Now if the Ottomans are balanced points wise with their enemy then the battle will be balanced.

      Of course perhaps its just easier to base the VP value on the brigade value. so for example the brigades are worth Old Guard 5 VP, Elite 3 VP, Regular 2 VP, Conscript 1 VP Irregular Conscript 0.5 VP. So if playing the Russians they would need to destroy six Irregular Conscript Brigades for every Elite Brigade lost or four for every Regular Brigade lost.

      Drew

      From: baguette19eme
      Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2011 11:17 AM
      To: mailto:NapoleonicFireandFury%40yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [NapoleonicFireandFury] Victory Points

      I am planning a couple of scenarios with ottomans.Now with such an irregular army it has to be more numerous with the consequence that the opposing army can accumulate more victory points.

      Any suggestions

      D

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