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Re: [NWNG-Sn3Group] Trees

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  • tom beaton
    ... Have a look at what Paul Scoles did with the two large tree I built for him, and build these into a grove with shorter trees around them. I think it will
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 7, 2006
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      ----- Hey Steve...In my back yard, 90 ft trees are the norm. From your photo, you have them out front with all the little trees in the rear, and they look out of place by themselves.
      Have a look at what Paul Scoles did with the two large tree I built for him, and build these into a grove with shorter trees around them. I think it will improve the look. Tom Beaton


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    • railwayeng
      I make a couple trees every time I m inspired (rr s take 1000 s) and I m never sure what size to make them. I made a few 90-100ft trees yesterday evening and
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 7, 2006
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        I make a couple trees every time I'm inspired (rr's take 1000's)
        and I'm never sure what size to make them. I made a few 90-100ft
        trees yesterday evening and they dwarf everything.
        This size thing has me perplexed. How do you handle size?
        I would like to make some tall redwoods but even these 90 ft
        trees make me wonder. Here's a picture it shows it better
        than I can explain.

        http://www.railwayeng.com/hatch/pics/t0081.jpg

        I have a couple that are 150 foot tall but I haven't put them
        up yet. Trying to decide if I should cut them down.
        I've seen pictures of Paul's trees and his seem right but
        I can't see the over-all effect that they have.
        Sure would like some opinions on this.
        -Steve Hatch
        -Ukiah CA
      • Randy Scott
        Good Morning, I suspect the problem is one of viewpoint. Standing on the 1:1 Earth, we would usually only see the trunks and lower branches of a full- sized
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 8, 2006
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          Good Morning,

          I suspect the problem is one of viewpoint. Standing on the 1:1 Earth,
          we would usually only see the trunks and lower branches of a full-
          sized tree as we focus our vision on the buildings and trains. On the
          model railroad, we just about always have a viewpoint from a much
          higher perspective--almost as if we are in a hot-air balloon--so we
          see much more of the model tree than we do of the 1:1 tree, and it
          strikes us as "not right."

          If you look at the photo's of Paul's trees, they are not near full-
          size, but they "look right" because they fit what we think a tree
          should look like.

          "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards is a great
          book that discusses how what we think (left-side) something should
          look like influences how we see it. By training ourselves to use the
          right-side (and as a left-brained mathematician, I need a lot of
          training!) we can learn to represent things as they are--or in the
          model railroad world, we can learn how to effectively satisfy what we
          think should be there.

          On Tom Franks' old On3 Westside layout, he had a forest of huge,
          well, trunks basically with a few branches, that was very effective
          because the 1:48 ground level was up near eye level, and the trees
          disappeared up out of the viewer's sight line.

          All that said, it looks like the layout is progressing nicely Steve
          and our trees are beautiful.

          Have fun,

          Randy Scott

          P.S. Of course, one can avoid the whole tree issue by modeling the
          desert, Antarctica, or perhaps the moon!



          On Feb 7, 2006, at 10:56 PM, railwayeng wrote:

          > I make a couple trees every time I'm inspired (rr's take 1000's)
          > and I'm never sure what size to make them. I made a few 90-100ft
          > trees yesterday evening and they dwarf everything.
          > This size thing has me perplexed. How do you handle size?
          > I would like to make some tall redwoods but even these 90 ft
          > trees make me wonder. Here's a picture it shows it better
          > than I can explain.
          >
          > http://www.railwayeng.com/hatch/pics/t0081.jpg
          >
          > I have a couple that are 150 foot tall but I haven't put them
          > up yet. Trying to decide if I should cut them down.
          > I've seen pictures of Paul's trees and his seem right but
          > I can't see the over-all effect that they have.
          > Sure would like some opinions on this.
          > -Steve Hatch
          > -Ukiah CA
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • bagustaf@aol.com
          Hi Steve, The dilemma we experience is the conflict between a scale or almost scale height tree and our all too small mountains. As Randy Scott pointed our we
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 8, 2006
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            Hi Steve,

            The dilemma we experience is the conflict between a scale or almost scale
            height tree and our all too small mountains. As Randy Scott pointed our we have
            to "selectively compress" scenery elements to convey the illusion of the
            scence. Some scenes, i.e. Colorado 14,000 foot mountains and the trees on them,
            require a different approach than a sea side scene. Just as the horizontal foot
            print of our layouts is never large enough neither is the vertical space needed
            to truly convey the size of the Rocky Mountains. Since we can't have scale
            mountains, we have to compress the height of the trees. Lee Gustafson


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • tom beaton
            Hey Steve....Make sure you get to see Pauls layout, and the rest. You will see some great modelling. See you there ...Tom SPONSORED LINKS G scale train Ho
            Message 5 of 13 , Feb 8, 2006
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              Hey Steve....Make sure you get to see Pauls layout, and the rest. You will see some great modelling. See you there ...Tom







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            • Tom Troughton, MMR
              Hi Steve, Here s three URL s to shots of some 120 trees on my layout that are within my town of Tall Timbers. At first I too thought they were too tall, but
              Message 6 of 13 , Feb 8, 2006
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                Hi Steve,

                Here's three URL's to shots of some 120' trees on my layout that are within
                my town of Tall Timbers. At first I too thought they were too tall, but
                after working them into the ground and locating them so that they provided
                "view blocks or pathways" I started liking them.

                http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt492/Images/Bakery/Bakery1405.JPG
                http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt490/Images/Trees/Trees534.jpg
                http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt490/Images/Trees/Trees525.jpg

                Maybe the trick to trees is having more than just a few of them. You might
                be able to create a better feeling by installing more of them in clusters or
                groupings, maybe around a central park or memorial that you may wish to
                create.

                Tom
                Please visit my model railroading and photography web pages at:
                http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt491/home.html
                http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt495/photohome.html
              • railwayeng
                ... your photo, you have them out front with all the little trees in the rear, and they look out of place by themselves. ... built for him, and build these
                Message 7 of 13 , Feb 8, 2006
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                  --- In NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com, "tom beaton" <grampop@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > ----- Hey Steve...In my back yard, 90 ft trees are the norm. From
                  your photo, you have them out front with all the little trees in the
                  rear, and they look out of place by themselves.
                  > Have a look at what Paul Scoles did with the two large tree I
                  built for him, and build these into a grove with shorter trees around
                  them. I think it will improve the look. Tom Beaton


                  Hi Tom. My back yard has some large trees also. They tower way over
                  my two story house. Your right that I put these first few in the
                  front and they should be back a bit and clustered.

                  my back yard:
                  http://www.railwayeng.com/hatch/pics/t10.jpg

                  Perhaps I'll get a chance to see Paul's work in person at the
                  symposium. I guess it is a matter of perspective since the "mountains"
                  are really really short. Several good thoughts in the posts that I
                  appreciate guys.
                  I guess I'll perservere, build more and see what comes of it.
                  -Steve Hatch
                • Andy May
                  ... Steve, I m not sure the size thing with your 90 trees is the problem. I think its the location. When the RR was built they would have cleared everything
                  Message 8 of 13 , Feb 9, 2006
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                    --- In NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com, "railwayeng" <hatch@...> wrote:

                    Steve,

                    I'm not sure the size thing with your 90' trees is the problem. I
                    think its the location. When the RR was built they would have cleared
                    everything in its path (unless maybe if its a logging RR). That's why
                    we normally see small trees close to the line in steam days and
                    especially so close to the buildings. Just how big could a tree have
                    got between the RR being built and the era you are modelling (40-50
                    years growth maybe) after somebody had decided to just let it grow. It
                    would have to be a fast growing tree and to have started right after
                    the RR was built to get to 90' in 50 years. Have a look at the link
                    for some prototype data.

                    http://www.arborday.org/trees/treeguide/TreeDetail.cfm?ID=127

                    Andy May
                  • Pat Turner
                    Good point. In looking into modeling the Georgetown, CO area you cannot go by what it looks like today. Lots of trees there now. But, 1880-1920 it looked like
                    Message 9 of 13 , Feb 9, 2006
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                      Good point. In looking into modeling the Georgetown, CO area you cannot go
                      by what it looks like today. Lots of trees there now. But, 1880-1920 it
                      looked like a desert waste land with large trees being 15' tall! What trees
                      were not cut for the RR were cut for mine timbers. Part of the RRs profit
                      was from shipping in lumber for the mines. They would not have done that if
                      there were any trees still left...

                      Pat Turner
                      http://www.TurnerModelWorks.com
                      TurnerModelWorks@...


                      > [Original Message]
                      > From: Andy May <asmay@...>
                      > To: <NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com>
                      > Date: 2/9/2006 2:34:53 PM
                      > Subject: [NWNG-Sn3Group] Re: Trees
                      >
                      > --- In NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com, "railwayeng" <hatch@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Steve,
                      >
                      > I'm not sure the size thing with your 90' trees is the problem. I
                      > think its the location. When the RR was built they would have cleared
                      > everything in its path (unless maybe if its a logging RR). That's why
                      > we normally see small trees close to the line in steam days and
                      > especially so close to the buildings. Just how big could a tree have
                      > got between the RR being built and the era you are modelling (40-50
                      > years growth maybe) after somebody had decided to just let it grow. It
                      > would have to be a fast growing tree and to have started right after
                      > the RR was built to get to 90' in 50 years. Have a look at the link
                      > for some prototype data.
                      >
                      > http://www.arborday.org/trees/treeguide/TreeDetail.cfm?ID=127
                      >
                      > Andy May
                    • William Busacca
                      Steve and Tom I have just started to experiment with big trees for Dolores, CO. I finally figured out how to make decent Cottonwood trees. I use sagebrush
                      Message 10 of 13 , Feb 10, 2006
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                        Steve and Tom

                        I have just started to experiment with big trees for Dolores, CO. I finally
                        figured out how to make decent Cottonwood trees. I use sagebrush stems with
                        foam covered supertree branches hot glued to the sagebrush.

                        I now have 50' to 60' trees in the foreground of Dolores, and it makes a
                        huge difference in the "mood" of Dolores. I use the low temp glue gun for
                        foam so that I can thin down the glue with my fingers without getting
                        burned. I have the trees in small clusters to interrupt the view
                        selectively. It seems to create the effect I wanted.

                        Bill Busacca



                        _____

                        From: NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com]
                        On Behalf Of Tom Troughton, MMR
                        Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:29 AM
                        To: NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [NWNG-Sn3Group] Trees



                        Hi Steve,

                        Here's three URL's to shots of some 120' trees on my layout that are within
                        my town of Tall Timbers. At first I too thought they were too tall, but
                        after working them into the ground and locating them so that they provided
                        "view blocks or pathways" I started liking them.

                        http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt492/Images/Bakery/Bakery1405.JPG
                        http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt490/Images/Trees/Trees534.jpg
                        http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt490/Images/Trees/Trees525.jpg

                        Maybe the trick to trees is having more than just a few of them. You might
                        be able to create a better feeling by installing more of them in clusters or

                        groupings, maybe around a central park or memorial that you may wish to
                        create.

                        Tom
                        Please visit my model railroading and photography web pages at:
                        http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt491/home.html
                        http://home.earthlink.net/~tomt495/photohome.html





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                      • JD
                        ... wrote: I finally figured out how to make decent Cottonwood trees. Bill, How about some photos of those trees? Id love to see what they look
                        Message 11 of 13 , Feb 11, 2006
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                          --- In NWNG-Sn3Group@yahoogroups.com, "William Busacca"
                          <lynn.bill@...> wrote:


                          I finally figured out how to make decent Cottonwood trees.

                          Bill,

                          How about some photos of those trees? Id love to see what they look
                          like. Thanks, Jeff.
                        • Paul Vaughn
                              Why don t you use Butterfly bush ends? Now is the time to harvest them and they are FREE. You only have to paint them.   Paul [Non-text portions of
                          Message 12 of 13 , Feb 1, 2012
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                                Why don't you use Butterfly bush ends? Now is the time to harvest them and they are FREE. You only have to paint them.
                             
                            Paul

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