Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [NWNG-Sn3Group] Revisiting 3rd Division motive power requirements.

Expand Messages
  • Paul Scoles
    Jim, It s simple really... sell all those nasty K s, and backdate the remaining C s to 1900 or so. And smile... Paul Scoles __________________________________
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 16, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      Jim,

      It's simple really... sell all those nasty K's, and
      backdate the remaining C's to 1900 or so.

      And smile... Paul Scoles


      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
      http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
    • Mike Conder
      No, no no, that s not the ticket. Keep the K s, dump all those nasty C s. and as a public service, I ll send you postage so you can just pack up that junk
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 16, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        No, no no, that's not the ticket. Keep the K's, dump all those nasty C's. and as a public service, I'll send you postage so you can just pack up that junk and send it to me ....

        After all, If PT can win a championship, then anything's possible!

        Mike "dreaming on" Conder

        Paul Scoles <pbscoles@...> wrote:
        It's simple really... sell all those nasty K's, and
        backdate the remaining C's to 1900 or so.

        ---------------------------------
        Do you Yahoo!?
        Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Doug Jolley
        Hi Jim! This is bound to be a little lengthy...so if that bothers anyone..please accept my apology...and feel free to skip right past. I won t get offended.
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 17, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Jim!

          This is bound to be a little lengthy...so if that
          bothers anyone..please accept my apology...and feel
          free to skip right past. I won't get offended. Honest.

          Sorry for arriving a bit late to this conversation,
          but after reading all the great comments I will throw
          out a few of my own very random thoughts.

          I have been thinking through the same sort of thing. I
          went at it just a bit different, though. I started by
          listing the trains I needed to run during an operating
          session, including the switch jobs I needed...and then
          tried matching reasonible power to them. While I have
          tried to hold my roster to engines that regularly
          plied the 3rd division, I too have a couple of
          "wandering" loco's...I am pleased to read about the
          RGS 20 being an occasional visitor..That helps explain
          the one I will undoubtably be running..LOL

          In all honesty..I have seen a picture of it
          "somewhere" at Cimarron, but as I recall it was in a
          train...being deadheaded rods up to Salida. Now..If
          someone could just tell me the #50 was used FIRST at
          Montrose as a switcher..I would be in like flint!

          Someone asked about operation on the 3rd....Well, I
          understand it was sparse in the later years. That is
          why you see so few pictures, other than the loco's
          sitting idle at the enginehouse in Montrose. Snapped,
          I'm sure when the railfans were really on their way to
          Ridgway...

          A few Montrose notes..probably most know..but worth
          repeating. The C-19's seemed to most of the switching
          there..although the K-27's got in on some of it too.
          The Ouray branch was the domain of the consolidations.
          Not saying there was never a mike out there, there
          probably was at some point...if nothing else..being
          transferred to the RGS or something of that
          nature..but can't recall a pic of one on a "turn" out
          there, anyway.

          The K-27's were used usually between Montrose, and
          Cimarron. The siding at Cedar Creek was used as a
          starting point to double the hill up the westside of
          Cerro.

          The Gunnison engines usually ran only to Cimarron.
          Trains were exchanged there. I suspect this was mostly
          to keep the RR from having to deadhead crews around,
          but just a guess.. This was not always the case
          though. There are many accounts of the C-21's running
          all the way through to Montrose, and having to double
          their train up the Eastside of Cerro...Remember the
          neat shots of the 21's on the wye at Cerro? That was
          just such an occasion.

          As for the later years in Gunnison. I had the
          privalege of working in the enginehouse in Salt Lake
          for a man named Harold Hockett. Harold was the last
          forman at Gunnison. When he learned I had transfered
          in from the narrow gauge at Durango...we of course
          became good friends, and spent many hours talking
          about the NG days.

          The way he explained the last operation to me was
          this. He recalled it basically being a once a week
          operation. He worked in Salida, until the train left
          for Gunnison. When the train left town..he did
          too...and followed it's progress in case of problems.
          It was usually a big train with at least two
          mikes..sometimes up to four.

          He of course beat it to Gunnison..and made
          preparations for it's arrival. There were no other
          mechanical people working there. It usually arrived
          late in the evening...and the engines were bedded down
          for the night.

          The second day...they used the same crews..and engines
          for the branchline work. The mikes, of course, went to
          Crested Butte...and if they had the crews
          available..and the need...he fired off the 278..or the
          268...for either a run to Sapinero..or up one of the
          other branchlines out of Gunnison. Again..usually an
          all day affair. It was during this day..that Harold
          busied himself with duties around the
          roundhouse...such as doing the needed work on any C-16
          that might still be there, putting up coal...or
          cutting pieces off of the C-21's.....He told me they
          were at least partially scrapped in Gunnison.

          The 3rd day...the whole train was assembled once
          again...for the return to Salida. And he followed it
          back. Done for the week again. It seems to me
          tho...that he did mention that near the very
          end...trains were VERY infrequant..not the every week
          trip.

          I'm sure there may be an error or two in this story as
          far as train frequency, etc...You must remember, I am
          relating a story told to me at least 23 years ago...by
          a man that had done it at least 25 years before that.
          But I do think it is basically sound..LOL

          At any rate..perhaps this will help understand the
          motive power "needs" a little better.

          Good luck!!!

          Doug



          __________________________________
          Do you Yahoo!?
          Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
          http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
        • cilou.zelkine
          Jim, ... ...and even better : leave the RGS to the flock, imagine a nice (hi)story and start freelancing. It s great fun and much more original... (With my
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 17, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Jim,

            Paul Scoles wrote :
            >It's simple really... sell all those nasty K's, and
            >backdate the remaining C's to 1900 or so.

            ...and even better : leave the RGS to the flock, imagine a nice (hi)story
            and start freelancing. It's great fun and much more original...
            (With my hypocritical apologies to the "flock"... :-)

            Alex

            P.S. Incidentally, Mike, who is that "PT" (who can win a championship) ?
          • Mike Conder
            Thanks for that tome, Doug, very nice. It tickles my memory, though. Isn t there a green Frog tape that shows Gunnison, Cimarron et al, with an outside frame
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 17, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks for that tome, Doug, very nice.

              It tickles my memory, though. Isn't there a green Frog tape that shows Gunnison, Cimarron et al, with an outside frame engine hauling a train up the east sde of Cerro? For some reason, I seem to remember it was #375, not the C-21's. Haven't seen it for a while, so I may be wrong in that.

              Anyway, it seems plausible & would save the C-25 for Jim's Gunnison. If not, though, I still offer to make a sacrifice and pay the postage to take it off his hands ....

              Mike Conder

              Doug Jolley <djvj224@...> wrote:
              ... There are many accounts of the C-21's running
              all the way through to Montrose, and having to double
              their train up the Eastside of Cerro...

              ---------------------------------
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Doug Jolley
              Hi Mike! I don t know that I ve seen that tape..but you might very well be right. It does seem to me that I too have heard of the C-25 being used in this area
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 17, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Mike!

                I don't know that I've seen that tape..but you might
                very well be right. It does seem to me that I too have
                heard of the C-25 being used in this area briefly.
                Can't tell you where I might have seen or heard it
                tho.

                I have worked for the RR long enough to know that most
                anything might have a happened at one time or another,
                inspite of what rule books and such might have said.
                With the Rio Grande at least, our emphasis was ALWAYS
                just getting the thing over the road. That didn't mean
                that ANYTHING went..but it did mean somethings were
                not always as the were expected to be. Within
                resonable guidelines of course.

                Another thought I might interject here is that the
                history we believe to be so true now, is shaped
                largely from existing docs..and photo's. So much
                happened that was never documented...or recorded. In
                the case of photo's..I believe most were taken of the
                more unusual, or interesting things that happened,
                rather than the normal day to day stuff that you could
                go see any time then.

                One example might be rotary operation over Cerro. I
                have never seen a photo..or really even a mention of
                it anywhere, but....I do know a retired man in
                Montrose, who was the section foreman over that line.
                He has a very sharp memory, I must admit..better than
                mine. He told me not long ago how he used to hate
                working with the rotary over that summit. One of the
                worst jobs he ever had. He didn't tell me much about
                it..but I have no doubt that it must have operated
                there occasionally.

                Anyway...I guess I should have prefaced my original
                post to include that I felt it was the "general"
                operation at that time.

                Doug


                --- Mike Conder <vulturenest1@...> wrote:
                > Thanks for that tome, Doug, very nice.
                >
                > It tickles my memory, though. Isn't there a green
                > Frog tape that shows Gunnison, Cimarron et al, with
                > an outside frame engine hauling a train up the east
                > sde of Cerro? For some reason, I seem to remember
                > it was #375, not the C-21's. Haven't seen it for a
                > while, so I may be wrong in that......
                >
                >

                __________________________________
                Do you Yahoo!?
                Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
                http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
              • Mike Conder
                Doug, Nope, I m wrong. Turns out it s #361, not #375. false alarm (but great tape!). Mike Conder Doug Jolley wrote: I don t know that
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 17, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Doug,

                  Nope, I'm wrong. Turns out it's #361, not #375. false alarm (but great tape!).

                  Mike Conder

                  Doug Jolley <djvj224@...> wrote:
                  I don't know that I've seen that tape..but you might
                  very well be right.

                  ---------------------------------
                  Do you Yahoo!?
                  Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.