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Re: Path of the Heart Chapter 15 -->

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  • jette_fuxfell
    Hehe, true... but still, he didn t, and that has to count as a minor miracle ;) I always said your Bishop seemed quite sane, compared to Kaana s or mine... but
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2008
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      Hehe, true... but still, he didn't, and that has to count as a minor
      miracle ;)

      I always said your Bishop seemed quite sane, compared to Kaana's or
      mine... but still recognizable. I don't know how you do it, but you
      do. Plus, there's quite a bit of character development in the course
      of your story, which is a good thing.

      So the Bishop at this point won't be as evil as the one at the start
      of "The way of the hunter", because he has learned a few things about
      himself on they way, no?


      --- In NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com, "alya_elvawiel" <jingersnap@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > *LOL* Only reason he didn't screw up was because he was a little
      > screwed up in the brain, and freaked out when he started seeing
      things!
      >
      > I have to admit my Bishop is much less evil than most, and not
      > everyone would agree that he would do what he did - I've been
      reading
      > all the debate on here - but my 2 cents' worth? He never actually
      did
      > anything truly evil ingame...if anything, he was all talk, and
      always
      > seemed to be hiding something, never lettig anyone get too close, or
      > see his weaknesses. In my view, that smacks of someone who got hurt
      > before and is afraid of gettig hurt again. Hence my more sympathetic
      > take on the man.
      >
      > x
      >
    • alya_elvawiel
      Sane? Just about, and yeah, I went for the sympathetic take on the guy. Way I see it, no one is born evil. Something must happen in life to make one psycho. Dr
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2008
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        Sane? Just about, and yeah, I went for the sympathetic take on the
        guy. Way I see it, no one is born evil. Something must happen in life
        to make one psycho. Dr Harold Shipman, who killed his elderly
        patients, grew up with an overly protective mother who controlled
        every aspect of his life, then lost her after a long battle with
        cancer, but not before spending ages supporting her. Ted Bundy was born
        to a single mom, the identity of his father a mystery. Then someone
        thought it would be a good idea, to avoid social stigma, to have his
        grandparents adopt him and have his mom masquerade as his sister! He
        only fond out his 'sis' was really his mom when he was a teenager.
        That's got to mess you up!

        These are just two extreme examples. Perhaps I'm just trying to see
        the inherent good in everybody before real life messes it up?

        x
      • rhia474
        I really don t want to start a flamewar...I am a nice and peaceful person, really...:) But there is a time in every messed-up kid s life when they become
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 1, 2008
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          I really don't want to start a flamewar...I am a nice and peaceful
          person, really...:) But there is a time in every messed-up kid's life
          when they become adults and thus they are responsible for their own
          actions. I really would be hard-pressed to try and justify Al Bundy's
          actions with his upbringing. he decided to go down that path, and
          never showed any remorse. Exactly like you say, something must happen
          to turn a person into evil--and that's the choice to be one, and the
          free will we were given to choose to accept it or not. But we were
          also given the responsibility, and one should not justify evil by
          trying to explain away its roots--something I see way too often in
          real life these days.

          There's a reason I like the recent Showtime series 'Dexter'
          immensely; I read the book it was based on first, and I think they
          stuck closely with the plot and character in the adaptation. Dexter's
          stepfather, a cop, channelled his serial killer/pshycho violence in a
          very interesting way...but it was Dexter who made the decision to do
          it, he was not forced to it in any way. There are several instances
          in the book/series where he could choose to turn away from that path
          and become the destructive whirlwind most of those of his ilk become,
          but over and over again he chooses not to.

          ::off soapbox::

          Everyone feel free to ignore me, I just had to say something... :)

          --- In NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com, "alya_elvawiel" <jingersnap@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Sane? Just about, and yeah, I went for the sympathetic take on the
          > guy. Way I see it, no one is born evil. Something must happen in
          life
          > to make one psycho. Dr Harold Shipman, who killed his elderly
          > patients, grew up with an overly protective mother who controlled
          > every aspect of his life, then lost her after a long battle with
          > cancer, but not before spending ages supporting her. Ted Bundy was
          born
          > to a single mom, the identity of his father a mystery. Then someone
          > thought it would be a good idea, to avoid social stigma, to have his
          > grandparents adopt him and have his mom masquerade as his sister! He
          > only fond out his 'sis' was really his mom when he was a teenager.
          > That's got to mess you up!
          >
          > These are just two extreme examples. Perhaps I'm just trying to see
          > the inherent good in everybody before real life messes it up?
          >
          > x
          >
        • Burdick, Christina
          *head pops into the thread, looking a bit like Kilroy* Dexter for president!!! *sneaks off after not contributing anything useful to the conversation*
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 1, 2008
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            *head pops into the thread, looking a bit like Kilroy*
             
            Dexter for president!!!
             
            *sneaks off after not contributing anything useful to the conversation*


            From: NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rhia474
            Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:54 AM
            To: NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [NWN2Fanfic] Re: Path of the Heart Chapter 15 -->

            I really don't want to start a flamewar...I am a nice and peaceful
            person, really...:) But there is a time in every messed-up kid's life
            when they become adults and thus they are responsible for their own
            actions. I really would be hard-pressed to try and justify Al Bundy's
            actions with his upbringing. he decided to go down that path, and
            never showed any remorse. Exactly like you say, something must happen
            to turn a person into evil--and that's the choice to be one, and the
            free will we were given to choose to accept it or not. But we were
            also given the responsibility, and one should not justify evil by
            trying to explain away its roots--something I see way too often in
            real life these days.

            There's a reason I like the recent Showtime series 'Dexter'
            immensely; I read the book it was based on first, and I think they
            stuck closely with the plot and character in the adaptation. Dexter's
            stepfather, a cop, channelled his serial killer/pshycho violence in a
            very interesting way...but it was Dexter who made the decision to do
            it, he was not forced to it in any way. There are several instances
            in the book/series where he could choose to turn away from that path
            and become the destructive whirlwind most of those of his ilk become,
            but over and over again he chooses not to.

            ::off soapbox::

            Everyone feel free to ignore me, I just had to say something... :)

            --- In NWN2Fanfic@yahoogro ups.com, "alya_elvawiel" <jingersnap@ ...>
            wrote:

            >
            > Sane?
            Just about, and yeah, I went for the sympathetic take on the
            > guy. Way I
            see it, no one is born evil. Something must happen in
            life
            > to make
            one psycho. Dr Harold Shipman, who killed his elderly
            > patients, grew up
            with an overly protective mother who controlled
            > every aspect of his
            life, then lost her after a long battle with
            > cancer, but not before
            spending ages supporting her. Ted Bundy was
            born
            > to a single mom,
            the identity of his father a mystery. Then someone
            > thought it would be a
            good idea, to avoid social stigma, to have his
            > grandparents adopt him
            and have his mom masquerade as his sister! He
            > only fond out his 'sis'
            was really his mom when he was a teenager.
            > That's got to mess you
            up!
            >
            > These are just two extreme examples. Perhaps I'm just
            trying to see
            > the inherent good in everybody before real life messes it
            up?
            >
            > x
            >

          • rhia474
            Yeah, I am with you! Or I am contemplating to get a G Kar/Londo 2008 sign for my front yard. :) ... conversation* ... [mailto:NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com] On
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 1, 2008
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              Yeah, I am with you!
              Or I am contemplating to get a "G'Kar/Londo 2008" sign for my front
              yard. :)


              --- In NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com, "Burdick, Christina"
              <ceburdick@...> wrote:
              >
              > *head pops into the thread, looking a bit like Kilroy*
              >
              > Dexter for president!!!
              >
              > *sneaks off after not contributing anything useful to the
              conversation*
              >
              > ________________________________
              >
              > From: NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com] On
              > Behalf Of rhia474
              > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:54 AM
              > To: NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com
              > Subject: [NWN2Fanfic] Re: Path of the Heart Chapter 15 -->
              >
              >
              >
              > I really don't want to start a flamewar...I am a nice and peaceful
              > person, really...:) But there is a time in every messed-up kid's
              life
              > when they become adults and thus they are responsible for their own
              > actions. I really would be hard-pressed to try and justify Al
              Bundy's
              > actions with his upbringing. he decided to go down that path, and
              > never showed any remorse. Exactly like you say, something must
              happen
              > to turn a person into evil--and that's the choice to be one, and
              the
              > free will we were given to choose to accept it or not. But we were
              > also given the responsibility, and one should not justify evil by
              > trying to explain away its roots--something I see way too often in
              > real life these days.
              >
              > There's a reason I like the recent Showtime series 'Dexter'
              > immensely; I read the book it was based on first, and I think they
              > stuck closely with the plot and character in the adaptation.
              Dexter's
              > stepfather, a cop, channelled his serial killer/pshycho violence in
              a
              > very interesting way...but it was Dexter who made the decision to
              do
              > it, he was not forced to it in any way. There are several instances
              > in the book/series where he could choose to turn away from that
              path
              > and become the destructive whirlwind most of those of his ilk
              become,
              > but over and over again he chooses not to.
              >
              > ::off soapbox::
              >
              > Everyone feel free to ignore me, I just had to say something... :)
              >
              > --- In NWN2Fanfic@yahoogroups.com <mailto:NWN2Fanfic%
              40yahoogroups.com>
              > , "alya_elvawiel" <jingersnap@>
              > wrote:
              > >
              > > Sane? Just about, and yeah, I went for the sympathetic take on the
              > > guy. Way I see it, no one is born evil. Something must happen in
              > life
              > > to make one psycho. Dr Harold Shipman, who killed his elderly
              > > patients, grew up with an overly protective mother who controlled
              > > every aspect of his life, then lost her after a long battle with
              > > cancer, but not before spending ages supporting her. Ted Bundy
              was
              > born
              > > to a single mom, the identity of his father a mystery. Then
              someone
              > > thought it would be a good idea, to avoid social stigma, to have
              his
              > > grandparents adopt him and have his mom masquerade as his sister!
              He
              > > only fond out his 'sis' was really his mom when he was a teenager.
              > > That's got to mess you up!
              > >
              > > These are just two extreme examples. Perhaps I'm just trying to
              see
              > > the inherent good in everybody before real life messes it up?
              > >
              > > x
              > >
              >
            • alya_elvawiel
              Rhia, I thoroughly agree with what you say about having decisions. I don t see it as flaming at all! I mean, even with the extreme examples I used, what
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 2, 2008
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                Rhia, I thoroughly agree with what you say about having decisions. I
                don't see it as flaming at all! I mean, even with the extreme examples
                I used, what happened to them was nowhere near as bad as what happens
                to children all over the world at the moment. So why aren't we getting
                more psychopathic killers? Because of the choices they make. So I see
                Bishop as someone with a bad past, who chose to close himself off all
                emotional involvement, becoming a cold, evil shell of himself. In my
                fic, the KC acts as a catalyst, forcing him to rethink his actions,
                nudging him back on the right path perhaps? For as important as one's
                upbringing and history, the people around you play a huge role in
                one's psychological and mental health. If you've got abusive parents,
                a nurturing teacher at school, or a close circle of friends, might
                still keep one on the straight and narrow.

                So, what I'm saying, is that there are several factors that determine
                if someone will go psycho. Not that I'm making excuses for the worst
                serial killers out there, but I believe that many but the most
                hopeless cases are redeemable.

                x
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