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Re: [NVnarrowgauge] Velocipedes (velocipedi?)

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  • EANDPNG@AOL.COM
    The E&P had at least one velocipede but as far as I know it was a #3. From the E&PRR letter book at UN-R, Pg 230, B.G. to the Kalamazoo Velocipede and Car Co.
    Message 1 of 9 , Jan 5, 2008
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      The E&P had at least one velocipede but as far as I know it was a #3.


      From the E&PRR letter book at UN-R,
      Pg 230, B.G. to the Kalamazoo Velocipede and Car Co. 5-28-90
       Placing an order for one steel, one seat, No.3 Velocipede.
      (B.G. is Byron Gillman, E&P gm)
      Regards,
      Greg Maxwell

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Dave Eggleston <degg13@...>
      To: NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:48 am
      Subject: Re: [NVnarrowgauge] Velocipedes (velocipedi?)

      I get that you'd like to tie it to the NC. Non-NC items have shown up around Austin such as standard gauge tank cars at a ranch and until the early 1970s an E&P boxcar. Could this velocipede have been a floating relic from the E&P or Tonapah? It would make a fun research project for someone. But I wouldn't call it NC yet.
       
      There are so few relics of the NC out there. There is a shed near Bridges that I believe may have been NC. The Berlin boxcar (Bobtown shed) at the Icthyasaur monument. The Carter car at SPCRR. You probably won't get the last item (I did try to convince them to paint it in 1882 style NC buff when it got restored but they didn't bite). But the other two items? Sure would be nice to have what's left of the Berlin car in safer conditions. That car is wearing away from wind erosion.
       
      One question: what collection is the 1902 valuation that you're referencing located in?
       
      Thanks,
      Dave Eggleston
      ----- Original Message ----
      From: Wendell Huffman <wendellhuffman@...>
      To: NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 8:05:25 PM
      Subject: [NVnarrowgauge] Velocipedes (velocipedi?)

      We (at NSRM) have received an interesting end-of-year donation in the
      form of an old velocipede. What interests me (and the reason I post
      it here), is the donor's statement that the fellow he got it from
      found it "out in the desert near Austin". Unfortunately, along with
      the pump handle and one stirup, the car is missing the outrigger
      (interestngly, it has its third wheel), so there is no way to
      establish its gauge.

      I really would love to claim this piece as Nevada Central since we
      have nothing to represent that road at the museum, but all we have is
      the donor's statement--which is really not much more than rumor.

      The issue with the outrigger is an arguement for really documenting
      what you salvage. The fact that the third wheel still exists strongly
      suggests that the outrigger was still there when "they" found the
      car. The rest of the wood is sound, though certinly dry.

      On the other hand, the absence of the outrigger may itself support
      the idea that this was a narrow gauge car: "Yeah, I'm going to
      restore this, but I'll make it standard gauge so I can run it
      somewhere, so may as well leave that outrigger here."

      Also, and perhaps more indicitive of origin on the NC is the fact
      that elements of the original factory (Sheffield, Three Rivers,
      Mich.) decals are evident. In other words, this car was apparently
      never painted after it left the factory! Had it been an SP or WP
      velocipede, it certainly would have been painted.

      I'm a historian, not a prophet, so I don't know what will become of
      this car. But, it is safely out of the weather and anyone is welcome
      to come see it. It is parked next to a fully restored Sheffield No. 2
      (former WP) velocipede. This one appears to be a No. 1 (the seat
      being the only difference that I know of).

      I do know that NC had several velocipedes at one point. However, the
      1902 valuation lists only one--a No.2 (and, again, this appears to be
      a No.1). Could this really have sat abandoned from before 1902? Of
      course, that could explain why it was left out in the desert when the
      line was scrapped. On the other hand, this No.1 may have been
      acquired after 1902.

      I hardly know how to date velocipedes. There was little change in
      these cars from first production in the 1870s/80s through last
      production after WWII. Wheels changed some (these are wood spoke).
      Also, the frame of this car only extends a couple inched forward of
      the front wheel bearing, while the frame on our other (WP) car extend
      past the front wheel to form a convenient handle for lifting it. That
      suggests to me that our "new' car is older than the WP one. (And, I
      should admit that the evidence that our old one is WP is about as
      scanty as any claim that this is a Nevada Central).

      Wendell




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    • Wendell Huffman
      Very interesting. At this point I am sure I could not distinguish a Kalamazoo from a Sheffield (having never seen one that I knew was the former). The two
      Message 2 of 9 , Jan 5, 2008
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        Very interesting. At this point I am sure I could not distinguish a
        Kalamazoo from a Sheffield (having never seen one that I knew was the
        former). The two companies were located only a few miles from each
        other (Sheffield being at Three Rivers), and it is likely that
        employees and design elements moved back and forth. I have pulled the
        various patents issued to each company, but have yet to study them
        sufficiently to distinguish their products.

        When first offered the car we now have I was told one could
        read "Kalamazoo" on it. In fact I can't; I can however clearly make
        out the "Sheffield" and the "Three" of Three Rivers. That said (and
        in light of what you say) I should add that while we know that NC had
        a few Velocipedes, I have yet to see such information that would
        establish whether one or all were Sheffields or Kalamazoos. But, it
        is questions like this that drives me onward. W.

        --- In NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com, EANDPNG@... wrote:
        >
        >
        > The E&P had at least one velocipede but as far as I know it was a
        #3.
        >
        >
        >
        > From the E&PRR letter book at UN-R,
        >
        > Pg 230, B.G. to the Kalamazoo Velocipede and Car Co. 5-28-90
        >
        > ?Placing an order for one steel, one seat, No.3 Velocipede.
        >
        >
        > (B.G. is Byron Gillman, E&P gm)
        > Regards,
        > Greg Maxwell
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Dave Eggleston <degg13@...>
        > To: NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 10:48 am
        > Subject: Re: [NVnarrowgauge] Velocipedes (velocipedi?)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > I get that you'd like to tie it to the NC. Non-NC items have shown
        up around Austin?such as?standard gauge tank cars at a ranch and
        until the early 1970s an E&P boxcar. Could this velocipede have been
        a floating relic from the E&P or Tonapah? It would make a fun
        research project for someone. But I wouldn't call it NC yet.
        >
        > ?
        >
        > There are so few relics of the NC out there. There is a shed near
        Bridges that I believe may have been NC. The Berlin boxcar (Bobtown
        shed) at the Icthyasaur monument. The Carter car at SPCRR. You
        probably won't get the last item (I did try to convince them to paint
        it in 1882 style NC buff when it?got restored?but they didn't bite).
        But the other two items? Sure would be nice to have what's left of
        the Berlin car in safer conditions. That car is?wearing away from
        wind erosion.
        >
        > ?
        >
        > One question: what collection?is the 1902 valuation?that you're
        referencing located in?
        >
        > ?
        >
        > Thanks,
        >
        > Dave Eggleston
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message ----
        > From: Wendell Huffman <wendellhuffman@...>
        > To: NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2008 8:05:25 PM
        > Subject: [NVnarrowgauge] Velocipedes (velocipedi?)
        >
        >
        >
        > We (at NSRM) have received an interesting end-of-year donation in
        the
        > form of an old velocipede. What interests me (and the reason I post
        > it here), is the donor's statement that the fellow he got it from
        > found it "out in the desert near Austin". Unfortunately, along with
        > the pump handle and one stirup, the car is missing the outrigger
        > (interestngly, it has its third wheel), so there is no way to
        > establish its gauge.
        >
        > I really would love to claim this piece as Nevada Central since we
        > have nothing to represent that road at the museum, but all we have
        is
        > the donor's statement--which is really not much more than rumor.
        >
        > The issue with the outrigger is an arguement for really documenting
        > what you salvage. The fact that the third wheel still exists
        strongly
        > suggests that the outrigger was still there when "they" found the
        > car. The rest of the wood is sound, though certinly dry.
        >
        > On the other hand, the absence of the outrigger may itself support
        > the idea that this was a narrow gauge car: "Yeah, I'm going to
        > restore this, but I'll make it standard gauge so I can run it
        > somewhere, so may as well leave that outrigger here."
        >
        > Also, and perhaps more indicitive of origin on the NC is the fact
        > that elements of the original factory (Sheffield, Three Rivers,
        > Mich.) decals are evident. In other words, this car was apparently
        > never painted after it left the factory! Had it been an SP or WP
        > velocipede, it certainly would have been painted.
        >
        > I'm a historian, not a prophet, so I don't know what will become of
        > this car. But, it is safely out of the weather and anyone is
        welcome
        > to come see it. It is parked next to a fully restored Sheffield No.
        2
        > (former WP) velocipede. This one appears to be a No. 1 (the seat
        > being the only difference that I know of).
        >
        > I do know that NC had several velocipedes at one point. However,
        the
        > 1902 valuation lists only one--a No.2 (and, again, this appears to
        be
        > a No.1). Could this really have sat abandoned from before 1902? Of
        > course, that could explain why it was left out in the desert when
        the
        > line was scrapped. On the other hand, this No.1 may have been
        > acquired after 1902.
        >
        > I hardly know how to date velocipedes. There was little change in
        > these cars from first production in the 1870s/80s through last
        > production after WWII. Wheels changed some (these are wood spoke).
        > Also, the frame of this car only extends a couple inched forward of
        > the front wheel bearing, while the frame on our other (WP) car
        extend
        > past the front wheel to form a convenient handle for lifting it.
        That
        > suggests to me that our "new' car is older than the WP one. (And, I
        > should admit that the evidence that our old one is WP is about as
        > scanty as any claim that this is a Nevada Central).
        >
        > Wendell
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
        >
        >
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