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Re: Nevada Central coal car

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  • Michael Hobbs
    Greg, Whenever my Gazette finally arrives, I ll look at the drawing as I ve also liked the Nevada Central s cars. Thanks, Mike Hobbs Bakersfield, CA ...
    Message 1 of 4 , Nov 22, 2007
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      Greg,

      Whenever my Gazette finally arrives, I'll look at the drawing as I've
      also liked the Nevada Central's cars.

      Thanks,
      Mike Hobbs
      Bakersfield, CA



      --- In NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com, EANDPNG@... wrote:
      >
      > I am glad to be the first to correct my own mistake. The end beam
      detail?in the Gazette drawing is correct for the NC's Billmeyer and
      Smalls flat cars. Having said that I believe the B&S flat cars were
      numbered?100-119 making the number 160 given to the car in the
      drawing incorrect.
      > Greg
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Greg Maxwell <EANDPNG@...>
      > To: NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 4:36 pm
      > Subject: [NVnarrowgauge] Nevada Central coal car
      >
      >
      >
      > Group,
      > Does anyone other than myself find something wrong with the Nevada
      > Central coal car drawing on page 53 of the new Nov/Dec 2007
      Gazette?
      > The first thing that caught my eye was the end beams. I don't have
      my
      > NC photos close at hand but I remember the NC's Billmeyer and
      Smalls
      > flat cars as having end beams that sat flush with the bottoms of
      the
      > side sills with the deck coming to the end of the car on top of the
      > end beams. The drawing shows the end beams sitting in notched side
      > sill as with a Carter car. Also the enlarged double bolt washer
      > doesn't look right.
      > Any thoughts,
      > Greg Maxwell
      > West Linn, OR
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      ______________________________________________________________________
      __
      > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
      Mail! - http://mail.aol.com
      >
    • Dave Eggleston
      Gang-- My bad. I didn t look at the list before sending an email yesterday to Bob Brown about the plan. Sorry, Greg, I was on vacation and on seeing the plan
      Message 2 of 4 , Nov 26, 2007
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        Gang--
         
        My bad. I didn't look at the list before sending an email yesterday to Bob Brown about the plan. Sorry, Greg, I was on vacation and on seeing the plan yesterday I dashed off the email. You're right about the numbering--B&S was 100-119, Carter was 150-18x, and UP was 50-69. I still don't think that the end sill arrangement is correct for a B&S car in this time frame (c. 1898) but if someone has evidence otherwise, let me know. At least one photo from that period in Clifton shows B&S cars with the springplank coupler arrangement intact, definitely on the boxcars and it looks also on several coal cars. Maybe they rebuilt a few cars but I'm more inclined to believe the B&S coupler arrangement survived until the changeover to auto couplers and airbrakes (not the air piping beginning around the 1898 period on some cars, but 1905-1910 when full brakes were added to the cars). Partially because the NC was cheap, partially because the cars were not abused due to lighter traffic, and partially because the UP cars were probably more heavily used and abused than the B&S cars I don't believe that heavy modifications were made prior to the ICC-induced upgrades. My opinion based on gut feel from research and I'm completely open to being shot down!
         
        The fact is, while the car looks Carter I think it's more an approximation than a spot on representation of a specific car at a specific time. But then that's the problem with the NC--too few photos, sketchy paperwork, and a policy of rebuilding constantly. Anything is open to debate but some details in the plan just don't sit well to my eye, even for a B&S car.
         
        Below is what I sent to Bob. Go ahead and tear it apart, I'll be happy to back off on anything I say that is wrong. Does anyone have any info on the draftsman of the plan? It would be interesting to know his sources. He also drew the plan of the Victoria Falls trolley car in the same issue and apparently has been doing CAD drawings for the Gazette somewhat regularly.
         
        Bob--
        I just received the November/December Gazette. I've been researching the Nevada Central freight equipment for 15 years and was excited to see the Nevada Central gondola plan shown on page 53. I'd like to point out a few details to help your readers better understand this car. 
         
        The car in the plan does not depict a Nevada Central 1879 Billmeyer & Smalls flatcar as seen around 1898. The most important clue to this is the end sill arrangement. The B&S cars sported a trademark spring-plank coupler arrangement in which the side sills ran beyond the end sills and supported a plank the couplers were attached to. This results in a platform-like arrangement seen on B&S boxcars and flatcars in 1890s NC photos. Looking at the plan, the end sill arrangement in fact mimics that of the forty flatcars the Nevada Central purchased used from the Monterey & Salinas Valley in 1879. Those cars were built by Thomas Carter in 1874 prior to the formation of the well-known Carter Brothers firm. 
         
        Considering the plan to represent a Carter-built car, some other comments are in order:
         
        1) The plan does not appear to be O scale. If the plan is taken as being in S scale, the car dimensions are 8' x 27'. The Carter flatcars were 7' x 24' overall, give or take 2 inches.
         
        2) The trucks on the car would have had a 3'8" wheelbase with 24" wheels. Those in the plan appear to be a 4' wheelbase.
         
        3) The car would have sported 4 truss rods but no turnbuckles. The truss rods were tightened by their end nuts.
         
        4) For the 1890s period I would omit all grabs and strap steps shown. The Nevada Central didn't add such details widely until 1905-1910. Omitting these details also makes for a much simpler model to build!
         
        5) The car in this period was probably a red color with white lettering (they had been yellow with dark lettering in the 1880s). Period photos indicate the letters were often arranged slightly differently than shown, with the "NC" blocked between the 2nd and 3rd stake, "RR" between the 3rd and 4th stake, and the number located as shown. The number 160 is accurate for Carter-built cars running on the Nevada Central.
         
        6) The brake wheel shaft appears to run through the end sill. I would place this outboard of the end sill.
         
        Finally, the 1898 Nevada Central inventory lists car 160 as bad order with no mention of it's use as a coal car at that time. As was typical for the NC, cars were put in and out of service and we find 160 still running as a flatcar in 1925.
         
        Thanks again for publishing plans of such arcane prototypes.
         
        List--let me know your thoughts!
        Thanks,
        Dave Eggleston


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Michael Hobbs <smn03@...>
        To: NVnarrowgauge@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 9:30:40 AM
        Subject: [NVnarrowgauge] Re: Nevada Central coal car

        Greg,

        Whenever my Gazette finally arrives, I'll look at the drawing as I've
        also liked the Nevada Central's cars.

        Thanks,
        Mike Hobbs
        Bakersfield, CA

        --- In NVnarrowgauge@ yahoogroups. com, EANDPNG@... wrote:
        >
        > I am glad to be the first to correct my own mistake. The end beam
        detail?in the Gazette drawing is correct for the NC's Billmeyer and
        Smalls flat cars. Having said that I believe the B&S flat cars were
        numbered?100- 119 making the number 160 given to the car in the
        drawing incorrect.
        > Greg
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Greg Maxwell <EANDPNG@... >
        > To: NVnarrowgauge@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Wed, 21 Nov 2007 4:36 pm
        > Subject: [NVnarrowgauge] Nevada Central coal car
        >
        >
        >
        > Group,
        > Does anyone other than myself find something wrong with the Nevada
        > Central coal car drawing on page 53 of the new Nov/Dec 2007
        Gazette?
        > The first thing that caught my eye was the end beams. I don't have
        my
        > NC photos close at hand but I remember the NC's Billmeyer and
        Smalls
        > flat cars as having end beams that sat flush with the bottoms of
        the
        > side sills with the deck coming to the end of the car on top of the
        > end beams. The drawing shows the end beams sitting in notched side
        > sill as with a Carter car. Also the enlarged double bolt washer
        > doesn't look right.
        > Any thoughts,
        > Greg Maxwell
        > West Linn, OR
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
        __
        > Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL
        Mail! - http://mail. aol.com
        >




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