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Need help with NG mining RR

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  • Steven
    Hello, I am modeling a mining RR that goes up a mountain from the D&RGW Silverton Branch in 1937. Because of space constraints, it is coming off of the WYE in
    Message 1 of 10 , Sep 7, 2012
      Hello,

      I am modeling a mining RR that goes up a mountain from the D&RGW Silverton Branch in 1937. Because of space constraints, it is coming off of the WYE in Silverton where the Silverton Northern tracks would have come out.

      I have only about a 12 X 14 space for it going through the mountains to the mine at the top. I have made a place for engine facilities and a couple of other buildings at the bottom of the mountain at the WYE and then a meandering track up to the mine/s. Again, because of space constraints, I don't have any real specific mining buildings except for the mine itself. I do have an "ore transfer" in Silverton to transfer the ore from the DVMR to the D&RGW to ship the ore down to Durango and then on to a mill (off the layout).

      This is the basic idea. I am having real trouble though with the overall look/planning of the mining RR itself.

      My knowledge of mining is extremely limited and because of my space issues, I was hoping that I could include some important mining structures and maybe even a better track plan for the mining portion of the layout.

      I was hoping that someone who has modeled NG mining or has researched it could give me a hand on what should be included (structures, etc.) in the space I have available and if there might be a more interesting or "realistic" track plan that I could incorporate instead of the very limited (and boring) one I have.

      One limiting aspect is that the mining RR is over the D&RGW tracks in a tunnel in the mountain under the mining trackage, so there is only a certain amount of vertical space I have to use.

      Here is a link to the overhead pic of the entire layout as it is at the moment. I hope it helps give an overall idea of what I have to work with.

      http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access.jpg

      This a link to the 3D view of the middle portion of the layout...the mining portion. It is a rough-in idea.

      http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access_3D.jpg

      The basic information on the layout is as follows:

      Room size: 20.4' X 23.5' with a small alcove of 11' X 2.5'.

      Durango height (black and red track): 39" - Grade 0%
      Silverton Height (fusha track): 56.5" - Grade 0%
      DVMR (mining RR) height (purple track)is from 59.9" - 67" - Grade 2.367%
      Gray track is the Tunnel Track under the mountain (and mining track). It ranges from 41.9" to 55.4" in elevation.

      Gray track and Red track is part of the D&RGW main line between Durango and Silverton. The grade ranges from 1.378% - 2.377%.

      I don't know if any of this information is helpful, but I thought I would include it just in case.

      I would greatly appreciate your help.

      Thank you,

      Steven
    • David Barron
      Steven: I do not want this to sound discouraging or insulting but you just have to much track running around in that limited space. This would be the size of
      Message 2 of 10 , Sep 7, 2012
        Steven:
        I do not want this to sound discouraging or insulting but you just have to
        much track running around in that limited space. This would be the size of
        a club layout with maybe a space the size of a 3 car garage minimum. One of
        the things I see that beginners to is make very elaborate layouts with lots
        of track going places with no regard to grades or radius turns. Two things
        you need to do is scale this out with a minimum of 20 inch radius curves and
        at the very maximum, and this is for geared locomotives, a 4% grade. If you
        put to much track in you will not have any room for scenery either. In the
        beginning we all did this and tried to run it, were terribly disappointed
        and promptly removed it all. If I were you I would simplify the plan a lot
        more and pick specific spots for certain things. You do not have to model
        every nook and craney of a prototype railroad as it just takes to much
        space. Also, remember you want to see your trains run, so keep tunnels very
        short. That also makes maintenance, cleaning, and derailments much easier
        to work with. You have a wonderful track plan but in the limited space you
        really need to consider cutting back on it a bit. Perhaps start with just a
        single track going from point A to B and then add a terminal, station,
        engine facilities at either end, maybe some sidings were you will have an
        industry, or even passing siding to let trains pass each other as specific
        spots.
        I model in limited areas as well. The first part of my RR was done on two 3
        foot by 6 foot sections end to end for a 12 foot run. Through a series of
        switch backs I cross a canyon with 7 bridges, go through 3 short tunnels and
        cross a trestle to get from the bottom (HO), through Dual gauge, and finally
        to the top (Hon3) and rise 12 inches which is quite an elevation change in
        such a short area. I use 24 inch radius minimum and no more than 4% grades
        thorough out. The railroad was made to be expanded on and I am in the
        process of doing that now with a corner unit that is 5 feet by 5 feet with a
        corner cut at a 45 degree angle back to the 3 foot connector plates.
        Another extention is attached to that corner unit that is 8 feet long. The
        good part of this is that I can take it apart and move it to another home
        without destroying it. Today we are more mobile and move about a lot.
        After destroying 4 previous large layouts that took years to make I finally
        woke up and said how do I stop that disaster, and it was modules. The nice
        thing about DCC, and I use NCE DCC (I had Digitrax and got rid of it because
        it took a computer operator to run it) is that you can run all your
        switches, engines, lights, animation, everything from your hand held and
        completely eliminate the need for a control panel. Previous to DCC I had 3
        of the older PFM large Sound System II's and I was tied to a control panel.
        All my switches were run by toggles and I was tied to it. I never got to
        follow my trains around and I like this much better.
        Another thought is that you need to have at least one track that you can use
        that will complete the loop so that you can run trains for visitors who are
        not model railroaders, and they like to see them run continuously. A circle
        helps too if you just want to set it in motion and enjoy the sights you have
        made. This can be a cut off and through a short tunnel. You can also make
        hidden yards as stage tracks under the layout which help store your trains
        and keeps dust off them.
        Just some thoughts.

        Dave MMR#200

        -----Original Message-----
        From: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NGMMG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
        Steven
        Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 6:58 AM
        To: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [NGMMG] Need help with NG mining RR

        Hello,

        I am modeling a mining RR that goes up a mountain from the D&RGW Silverton
        Branch in 1937. Because of space constraints, it is coming off of the WYE
        in Silverton where the Silverton Northern tracks would have come out.

        I have only about a 12 X 14 space for it going through the mountains to the
        mine at the top. I have made a place for engine facilities and a couple of
        other buildings at the bottom of the mountain at the WYE and then a
        meandering track up to the mine/s. Again, because of space constraints, I
        don't have any real specific mining buildings except for the mine itself. I
        do have an "ore transfer" in Silverton to transfer the ore from the DVMR to
        the D&RGW to ship the ore down to Durango and then on to a mill (off the
        layout).

        This is the basic idea. I am having real trouble though with the overall
        look/planning of the mining RR itself.

        My knowledge of mining is extremely limited and because of my space issues,
        I was hoping that I could include some important mining structures and maybe
        even a better track plan for the mining portion of the layout.

        I was hoping that someone who has modeled NG mining or has researched it
        could give me a hand on what should be included (structures, etc.) in the
        space I have available and if there might be a more interesting or
        "realistic" track plan that I could incorporate instead of the very limited
        (and boring) one I have.

        One limiting aspect is that the mining RR is over the D&RGW tracks in a
        tunnel in the mountain under the mining trackage, so there is only a certain
        amount of vertical space I have to use.

        Here is a link to the overhead pic of the entire layout as it is at the
        moment. I hope it helps give an overall idea of what I have to work with.

        http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access.jpg

        This a link to the 3D view of the middle portion of the layout...the mining
        portion. It is a rough-in idea.

        http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access_3D.jpg

        The basic information on the layout is as follows:

        Room size: 20.4' X 23.5' with a small alcove of 11' X 2.5'.

        Durango height (black and red track): 39" - Grade 0% Silverton Height
        (fusha track): 56.5" - Grade 0% DVMR (mining RR) height (purple track)is
        from 59.9" - 67" - Grade 2.367% Gray track is the Tunnel Track under the
        mountain (and mining track). It ranges from 41.9" to 55.4" in elevation.

        Gray track and Red track is part of the D&RGW main line between Durango and
        Silverton. The grade ranges from 1.378% - 2.377%.

        I don't know if any of this information is helpful, but I thought I would
        include it just in case.

        I would greatly appreciate your help.

        Thank you,

        Steven







        ------------------------------------

        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Rick Neet
        Hi Steve, Designing a layout is always a challenge but it looks like you ve mastered, or least have a good handle on, the 3rd-Planit software which is a great
        Message 3 of 10 , Sep 7, 2012
          Hi Steve,

          Designing a layout is always a challenge but it looks like you've mastered, or least have a good handle on, the 3rd-Planit software which is a great tool when trying to fit "X" amount of track into a given space. Dave makes a few valid points also especially about too much track and having at least one loop for running a train continuously for visitors, but that said I think you're off to a good start. But to keep my thoughts short and to the point I would suggest the following:

          1. Modify the D&RGW mainline to allow for the continuous running aspect. 
          2. Change the upper end of mining road to eliminate the loop and use a wye instead. This will allow more space for creative scenic design. You could also     
              add a mine or two along the run up to the "mining town". 
          3. Obtain a copy of the Sundance book The Gilpin RailRoad Era. The Gilpin was a 2ft. gauge line in the Central City area of Colorado and it's sole purpose  
               was to serve the mines and mills of the region. It's a fabulous source for the information you're seeking. The Rainbow Route by Sundance is another must 
               read for those interested in railroads, mining and Colorado.

          Good luck on your project!

          Rick Neet
          Crystal Pass & Pacific RR in Sn3


          On Sep 7, 2012, at 7:12 AM, David Barron wrote:

           

          Steven:
          I do not want this to sound discouraging or insulting but you just have to
          much track running around in that limited space. This would be the size of
          a club layout with maybe a space the size of a 3 car garage minimum. One of
          the things I see that beginners to is make very elaborate layouts with lots
          of track going places with no regard to grades or radius turns. Two things
          you need to do is scale this out with a minimum of 20 inch radius curves and
          at the very maximum, and this is for geared locomotives, a 4% grade. If you
          put to much track in you will not have any room for scenery either. In the
          beginning we all did this and tried to run it, were terribly disappointed
          and promptly removed it all. If I were you I would simplify the plan a lot
          more and pick specific spots for certain things. You do not have to model
          every nook and craney of a prototype railroad as it just takes to much
          space. Also, remember you want to see your trains run, so keep tunnels very
          short. That also makes maintenance, cleaning, and derailments much easier
          to work with. You have a wonderful track plan but in the limited space you
          really need to consider cutting back on it a bit. Perhaps start with just a
          single track going from point A to B and then add a terminal, station,
          engine facilities at either end, maybe some sidings were you will have an
          industry, or even passing siding to let trains pass each other as specific
          spots.
          I model in limited areas as well. The first part of my RR was done on two 3
          foot by 6 foot sections end to end for a 12 foot run. Through a series of
          switch backs I cross a canyon with 7 bridges, go through 3 short tunnels and
          cross a trestle to get from the bottom (HO), through Dual gauge, and finally
          to the top (Hon3) and rise 12 inches which is quite an elevation change in
          such a short area. I use 24 inch radius minimum and no more than 4% grades
          thorough out. The railroad was made to be expanded on and I am in the
          process of doing that now with a corner unit that is 5 feet by 5 feet with a
          corner cut at a 45 degree angle back to the 3 foot connector plates.
          Another extention is attached to that corner unit that is 8 feet long. The
          good part of this is that I can take it apart and move it to another home
          without destroying it. Today we are more mobile and move about a lot.
          After destroying 4 previous large layouts that took years to make I finally
          woke up and said how do I stop that disaster, and it was modules. The nice
          thing about DCC, and I use NCE DCC (I had Digitrax and got rid of it because
          it took a computer operator to run it) is that you can run all your
          switches, engines, lights, animation, everything from your hand held and
          completely eliminate the need for a control panel. Previous to DCC I had 3
          of the older PFM large Sound System II's and I was tied to a control panel.
          All my switches were run by toggles and I was tied to it. I never got to
          follow my trains around and I like this much better.
          Another thought is that you need to have at least one track that you can use
          that will complete the loop so that you can run trains for visitors who are
          not model railroaders, and they like to see them run continuously. A circle
          helps too if you just want to set it in motion and enjoy the sights you have
          made. This can be a cut off and through a short tunnel. You can also make
          hidden yards as stage tracks under the layout which help store your trains
          and keeps dust off them.
          Just some thoughts.

          Dave MMR#200

          -----Original Message-----
          From: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NGMMG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
          Steven
          Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 6:58 AM
          To: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [NGMMG] Need help with NG mining RR

          Hello,

          I am modeling a mining RR that goes up a mountain from the D&RGW Silverton
          Branch in 1937. Because of space constraints, it is coming off of the WYE
          in Silverton where the Silverton Northern tracks would have come out.

          I have only about a 12 X 14 space for it going through the mountains to the
          mine at the top. I have made a place for engine facilities and a couple of
          other buildings at the bottom of the mountain at the WYE and then a
          meandering track up to the mine/s. Again, because of space constraints, I
          don't have any real specific mining buildings except for the mine itself. I
          do have an "ore transfer" in Silverton to transfer the ore from the DVMR to
          the D&RGW to ship the ore down to Durango and then on to a mill (off the
          layout).

          This is the basic idea. I am having real trouble though with the overall
          look/planning of the mining RR itself.

          My knowledge of mining is extremely limited and because of my space issues,
          I was hoping that I could include some important mining structures and maybe
          even a better track plan for the mining portion of the layout.

          I was hoping that someone who has modeled NG mining or has researched it
          could give me a hand on what should be included (structures, etc.) in the
          space I have available and if there might be a more interesting or
          "realistic" track plan that I could incorporate instead of the very limited
          (and boring) one I have.

          One limiting aspect is that the mining RR is over the D&RGW tracks in a
          tunnel in the mountain under the mining trackage, so there is only a certain
          amount of vertical space I have to use.

          Here is a link to the overhead pic of the entire layout as it is at the
          moment. I hope it helps give an overall idea of what I have to work with.

          http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access.jpg

          This a link to the 3D view of the middle portion of the layout...the mining
          portion. It is a rough-in idea.

          http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access_3D.jpg

          The basic information on the layout is as follows:

          Room size: 20.4' X 23.5' with a small alcove of 11' X 2.5'.

          Durango height (black and red track): 39" - Grade 0% Silverton Height
          (fusha track): 56.5" - Grade 0% DVMR (mining RR) height (purple track)is
          from 59.9" - 67" - Grade 2.367% Gray track is the Tunnel Track under the
          mountain (and mining track). It ranges from 41.9" to 55.4" in elevation.

          Gray track and Red track is part of the D&RGW main line between Durango and
          Silverton. The grade ranges from 1.378% - 2.377%.

          I don't know if any of this information is helpful, but I thought I would
          include it just in case.

          I would greatly appreciate your help.

          Thank you,

          Steven

          ------------------------------------

          Yahoo! Groups Links


          =
        • Woodie Greene
            Another way to actually see if what you want will fit the available space is to get some brown craft paper or what we used to call butcher paper and lay
          Message 4 of 10 , Sep 7, 2012

             
            Another way to actually see if what you want will fit the available space is to get some brown "craft paper" or what we used to call butcher paper and lay out full size sheets on the floor of the layout room. When you get the size right, then simply draw the track plan in full size on the paper. This way you can actually see what the plan looks like VS looking at a plan on a small computer screen. I do things the old way, never using a CAD program or any other modern ideas. Somehow, this worked for half a century on some of the best designed layouts. Still another way would be to build a 1"=12" scale model of the proposed layout, that is a great way to visually see what you want and it is a neat thing to do anyway.
            The Gilpin Era book is still available ( rather pricey) but is a wonderful thing to have for research and ideas.
            Take care and have fun.
             
            Woodie

            From: Rick Neet <k27siderod@...>
            To: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Fri, September 7, 2012 10:08:32 AM
            Subject: Re: [NGMMG] Need help with NG mining RR

             

            Hi Steve,

            Designing a layout is always a challenge but it looks like you've mastered, or least have a good handle on, the 3rd-Planit software which is a great tool when trying to fit "X" amount of track into a given space. Dave makes a few valid points also especially about too much track and having at least one loop for running a train continuously for visitors, but that said I think you're off to a good start. But to keep my thoughts short and to the point I would suggest the following:

            1. Modify the D&RGW mainline to allow for the continuous running aspect. 
            2. Change the upper end of mining road to eliminate the loop and use a wye instead. This will allow more space for creative scenic design. You could also     
                add a mine or two along the run up to the "mining town". 
            3. Obtain a copy of the Sundance book The Gilpin RailRoad Era. The Gilpin was a 2ft. gauge line in the Central City area of Colorado and it's sole purpose  
                 was to serve the mines and mills of the region. It's a fabulous source for the information you're seeking. The Rainbow Route by Sundance is another must 
                 read for those interested in railroads, mining and Colorado.

            Good luck on your project!

            Rick Neet
            Crystal Pass & Pacific RR in Sn3


            On Sep 7, 2012, at 7:12 AM, David Barron wrote:

             

            Steven:
            I do not want this to sound discouraging or insulting but you just have to
            much track running around in that limited space. This would be the size of
            a club layout with maybe a space the size of a 3 car garage minimum. One of
            the things I see that beginners to is make very elaborate layouts with lots
            of track going places with no regard to grades or radius turns. Two things
            you need to do is scale this out with a minimum of 20 inch radius curves and
            at the very maximum, and this is for geared locomotives, a 4% grade. If you
            put to much track in you will not have any room for scenery either. In the
            beginning we all did this and tried to run it, were terribly disappointed
            and promptly removed it all. If I were you I would simplify the plan a lot
            more and pick specific spots for certain things. You do not have to model
            every nook and craney of a prototype railroad as it just takes to much
            space. Also, remember you want to see your trains run, so keep tunnels very
            short. That also makes maintenance, cleaning, and derailments much easier
            to work with. You have a wonderful track plan but in the limited space you
            really need to consider cutting back on it a bit. Perhaps start with just a
            single track going from point A to B and then add a terminal, station,
            engine facilities at either end, maybe some sidings were you will have an
            industry, or even passing siding to let trains pass each other as specific
            spots.
            I model in limited areas as well. The first part of my RR was done on two 3
            foot by 6 foot sections end to end for a 12 foot run. Through a series of
            switch backs I cross a canyon with 7 bridges, go through 3 short tunnels and
            cross a trestle to get from the bottom (HO), through Dual gauge, and finally
            to the top (Hon3) and rise 12 inches which is quite an elevation change in
            such a short area. I use 24 inch radius minimum and no more than 4% grades
            thorough out. The railroad was made to be expanded on and I am in the
            process of doing that now with a corner unit that is 5 feet by 5 feet with a
            corner cut at a 45 degree angle back to the 3 foot connector plates.
            Another extention is attached to that corner unit that is 8 feet long. The
            good part of this is that I can take it apart and move it to another home
            without destroying it. Today we are more mobile and move about a lot.
            After destroying 4 previous large layouts that took years to make I finally
            woke up and said how do I stop that disaster, and it was modules. The nice
            thing about DCC, and I use NCE DCC (I had Digitrax and got rid of it because
            it took a computer operator to run it) is that you can run all your
            switches, engines, lights, animation, everything from your hand held and
            completely eliminate the need for a control panel. Previous to DCC I had 3
            of the older PFM large Sound System II's and I was tied to a control panel.
            All my switches were run by toggles and I was tied to it. I never got to
            follow my trains around and I like this much better.
            Another thought is that you need to have at least one track that you can use
            that will complete the loop so that you can run trains for visitors who are
            not model railroaders, and they like to see them run continuously. A circle
            helps too if you just want to set it in motion and enjoy the sights you have
            made. This can be a cut off and through a short tunnel. You can also make
            hidden yards as stage tracks under the layout which help store your trains
            and keeps dust off them.
            Just some thoughts.

            Dave MMR#200

            -----Original Message-----
            From: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:NGMMG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
            Steven
            Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 6:58 AM
            To: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [NGMMG] Need help with NG mining RR

            Hello,

            I am modeling a mining RR that goes up a mountain from the D&RGW Silverton
            Branch in 1937. Because of space constraints, it is coming off of the WYE
            in Silverton where the Silverton Northern tracks would have come out.

            I have only about a 12 X 14 space for it going through the mountains to the
            mine at the top. I have made a place for engine facilities and a couple of
            other buildings at the bottom of the mountain at the WYE and then a
            meandering track up to the mine/s. Again, because of space constraints, I
            don't have any real specific mining buildings except for the mine itself. I
            do have an "ore transfer" in Silverton to transfer the ore from the DVMR to
            the D&RGW to ship the ore down to Durango and then on to a mill (off the
            layout).

            This is the basic idea. I am having real trouble though with the overall
            look/planning of the mining RR itself.

            My knowledge of mining is extremely limited and because of my space issues,
            I was hoping that I could include some important mining structures and maybe
            even a better track plan for the mining portion of the layout.

            I was hoping that someone who has modeled NG mining or has researched it
            could give me a hand on what should be included (structures, etc.) in the
            space I have available and if there might be a more interesting or
            "realistic" track plan that I could incorporate instead of the very limited
            (and boring) one I have.

            One limiting aspect is that the mining RR is over the D&RGW tracks in a
            tunnel in the mountain under the mining trackage, so there is only a certain
            amount of vertical space I have to use.

            Here is a link to the overhead pic of the entire layout as it is at the
            moment. I hope it helps give an overall idea of what I have to work with.

            http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access.jpg

            This a link to the 3D view of the middle portion of the layout...the mining
            portion. It is a rough-in idea.

            http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_access_3D.jpg

            The basic information on the layout is as follows:

            Room size: 20.4' X 23.5' with a small alcove of 11' X 2.5'.

            Durango height (black and red track): 39" - Grade 0% Silverton Height
            (fusha track): 56.5" - Grade 0% DVMR (mining RR) height (purple track)is
            from 59.9" - 67" - Grade 2.367% Gray track is the Tunnel Track under the
            mountain (and mining track). It ranges from 41.9" to 55.4" in elevation.

            Gray track and Red track is part of the D&RGW main line between Durango and
            Silverton. The grade ranges from 1.378% - 2.377%.

            I don't know if any of this information is helpful, but I thought I would
            include it just in case.

            I would greatly appreciate your help.

            Thank you,

            Steven

            ------------------------------------

            Yahoo! Groups Links


            =
          • Steven
            Hello all, I have been working on the layout design all day and have made two peninsulas as was suggested. The 3D rendition is a bit odd and I don t know how
            Message 5 of 10 , Sep 9, 2012
              Hello all,

              I have been working on the layout design all day and have made two peninsulas as was suggested. The 3D rendition is a bit odd and I don't know how to fix it, but it gives you the idea. The elevated mining track sits on tip of what seems to be a plateau, that isn't what will be the case, but again, I don't know this part of the program well, so it looks strange.

              http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_two_peninsulas_3D.jpg

              http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_two_peninsulas.jpg

              The design is much simpler because I used up so much room on the aisles. I am imagining more work to the design, but this is one based on the suggestions of yesterday.

              Please let me know what you think.

              Thanks,

              Steven

              --- In NGMMG@yahoogroups.com, Woodie Greene <mogollonry@...> wrote:
              >
              >

              > Another way to actually see if what you want will fit the available space is to
              > get some brown "craft paper" or what we used to call butcher paper and lay out
              > full size sheets on the floor of the layout room. When you get the size right,
              > then simply draw the track plan in full size on the paper. This way you can
              > actually see what the plan looks like VS looking at a plan on a small computer
              > screen. I do things the old way, never using a CAD program or any other modern
              > ideas. Somehow, this worked for half a century on some of the best designed
              > layouts. Still another way would be to build a 1"=12" scale model of the
              > proposed layout, that is a great way to visually see what you want and it is a
              > neat thing to do anyway.
              > The Gilpin Era book is still available ( rather pricey) but is a wonderful thing
              > to have for research and ideas.
              > Take care and have fun.
              >
              > Woodie
            • climax@mindspring.com
              Steven That all looks great but I would make only one suggestion. After the doorway, add one switch that will take a track down a grade to a lower level so
              Message 6 of 10 , Sep 9, 2012
                Steven
                That all looks great but I would make only one suggestion. After the doorway, add one switch that will take a track down a grade to a lower level so that you can be under Silverton and arrive through a portal on the lower level thereby completing a complete loop for running if you desire. Other than that, your plan looks very good and one that I will want to keep track of, no pun intended of course! hahahha Dave #200

                -----Original Message-----
                >From: Steven <kiaya@...>
                >Sent: Sep 9, 2012 6:30 PM
                >To: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: [NGMMG] Re: Need help with NG mining RR / new design
                >
                >Hello all,
                >
                >I have been working on the layout design all day and have made two peninsulas as was suggested. The 3D rendition is a bit odd and I don't know how to fix it, but it gives you the idea. The elevated mining track sits on tip of what seems to be a plateau, that isn't what will be the case, but again, I don't know this part of the program well, so it looks strange.
                >
                >http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_two_peninsulas_3D.jpg
                >
                >http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_two_peninsulas.jpg
                >
                >The design is much simpler because I used up so much room on the aisles. I am imagining more work to the design, but this is one based on the suggestions of yesterday.
                >
                >Please let me know what you think.
                >
                >Thanks,
                >
                >Steven
                >
                >--- In NGMMG@yahoogroups.com, Woodie Greene <mogollonry@...> wrote:
                >>
                >>
                >> 
                >> Another way to actually see if what you want will fit the available space is to
                >> get some brown "craft paper" or what we used to call butcher paper and lay out
                >> full size sheets on the floor of the layout room. When you get the size right,
                >> then simply draw the track plan in full size on the paper. This way you can
                >> actually see what the plan looks like VS looking at a plan on a small computer
                >> screen. I do things the old way, never using a CAD program or any other modern
                >> ideas. Somehow, this worked for half a century on some of the best designed
                >> layouts. Still another way would be to build a 1"=12" scale model of the
                >> proposed layout, that is a great way to visually see what you want and it is a
                >> neat thing to do anyway.
                >> The Gilpin Era book is still available ( rather pricey) but is a wonderful thing
                >> to have for research and ideas.
                >> Take care and have fun.
                >>
                >> Woodie
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Steven
                Hi Dave, Under Silverton, on the Durango level, there is a reverse loop with 3 tracks for sort of a small staging yard. I added the loop in Silverton so I can
                Message 7 of 10 , Sep 9, 2012
                  Hi Dave,

                  Under Silverton, on the Durango level, there is a reverse loop with 3 tracks for sort of a small staging yard.  I added the loop in Silverton so I can do continuous running.  I also simplified Silverton.  It was sort of hard to figure out because there was not much to "play with".  Durango is the most prototypical area of the line.  Even though it is folpped front to back and right to left, All of the important structures are in and inthe correct places.

                  The mining RR needs some work, but I don't know allot of what a mine would have and I don't have to money right now to buy the books that have been recommended.  They are on my list though.  I would just like there to be more up at the mines.

                  Even though I am having issues with the terrain stuff with 3pi, I at least go it to do allot of the track plans that will be functional.  I still have a ways to go.

                  Thank you for your comments,

                  Steven

                  On 9/9/2012 6:09 PM, climax@... wrote:
                   


                  Steven
                  That all looks great but I would make only one suggestion. After the doorway, add one switch that will take a track down a grade to a lower level so that you can be under Silverton and arrive through a portal on the lower level thereby completing a complete loop for running if you desire. Other than that, your plan looks very good and one that I will want to keep track of, no pun intended of course! hahahha Dave #200

                  -----Original Message-----
                  >From: Steven <kiaya@...>
                  >Sent: Sep 9, 2012 6:30 PM
                  >To: NGMMG@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [NGMMG] Re: Need help with NG mining RR / new design
                  >
                  >Hello all,
                  >
                  >I have been working on the layout design all day and have made two peninsulas as was suggested. The 3D rendition is a bit odd and I don't know how to fix it, but it gives you the idea. The elevated mining track sits on tip of what seems to be a plateau, that isn't what will be the case, but again, I don't know this part of the program well, so it looks strange.
                  >
                  >http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_two_peninsulas_3D.jpg
                  >
                  >http://home.centurytel.net/kiaya611/111d8_2_two_peninsulas.jpg
                  >
                  >The design is much simpler because I used up so much room on the aisles. I am imagining more work to the design, but this is one based on the suggestions of yesterday.
                  >
                  >Please let me know what you think.
                  >
                  >Thanks,
                  >
                  >Steven
                  >
                  >--- In NGMMG@yahoogroups.com, Woodie Greene <mogollonry@...> wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> 
                  >> Another way to actually see if what you want will fit the available space is to
                  >> get some brown "craft paper" or what we used to call butcher paper and lay out
                  >> full size sheets on the floor of the layout room. When you get the size right,
                  >> then simply draw the track plan in full size on the paper. This way you can
                  >> actually see what the plan looks like VS looking at a plan on a small computer
                  >> screen. I do things the old way, never using a CAD program or any other modern
                  >> ideas. Somehow, this worked for half a century on some of the best designed
                  >> layouts. Still another way would be to build a 1"=12" scale model of the
                  >> proposed layout, that is a great way to visually see what you want and it is a
                  >> neat thing to do anyway.
                  >> The Gilpin Era book is still available ( rather pricey) but is a wonderful thing
                  >> to have for research and ideas.
                  >> Take care and have fun.
                  >>
                  >> Woodie
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >------------------------------------
                  >
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  --

                  "Whilst looking to the future, do not forget the glories of the past."

                  F.O.P.S.

                • 23weldon
                  Your new 2 peninsula plan looks good. Frankly I m beginning to like it for myself. You have a wide place about halfway up the grade to the mines where a short
                  Message 8 of 10 , Sep 10, 2012
                    Your new 2 peninsula plan looks good.  Frankly I'm beginning to like it for myself.  
                    You have a wide place about halfway up the grade to the mines where a short siding and a timber loading derrick could be located.  The purpose would be to feed a small sawmill down below dedicated to cutting timbers for the mines above.  This would add variety to the operations possible on the mining branch. 
                    Another thought for the internal aisleway would be to narrow it to the minimum "people width" to allow for more expanse of the valley floor scenery and reduce the "track along the edge of the layout" effect that I sense you want to avoid.
                    I'd look into putting a smelter in the area down below near the lower wye.  If you can get your hands on a Raggs Rose-Walsh smelter kit that would be perfect.
                    Add a sampling tower to the smelter so it would handle incoming trade from other mining companies throughout the area giving logic for carloads to arrive from either end of the line.
                    Ed Weldon
                  • Steven
                    Hi Ed, That is truly flattering for you to say. If you use 3pi, I would be glad to send you a copy of the file. I love the Raggs, Rose-Welsh Smelter Kit! I
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 10, 2012
                      Hi Ed,

                      That is truly flattering for you to say.  If you use 3pi, I would be glad to send you a copy of the file. 


                      I love the Raggs, Rose-Welsh Smelter Kit!  I don't have the money for that large of a structure unfortunately.  I know their kits are great as I have one for another structure for Durango.

                      I wanted to have an actual logging RR, but after I really got into the real amount of space that is taken up by everything, I am having trouble fitting in the mining operation.  That is a must though.  Might you have a picture of what you are describing for the timer loading derrick?  I have an idea, but my knowledge on logging (as well as mining) is pretty limited.

                      I would appreciate it.

                      Thank you,

                      Steven


                      On 9/10/2012 9:47 AM, 23weldon wrote:
                       

                      Your new 2 peninsula plan looks good.  Frankly I'm beginning to like it for myself.  
                      You have a wide place about halfway up the grade to the mines where a short siding and a timber loading derrick could be located.  The purpose would be to feed a small sawmill down below dedicated to cutting timbers for the mines above.  This would add variety to the operations possible on the mining branch. 
                      Another thought for the internal aisleway would be to narrow it to the minimum "people width" to allow for more expanse of the valley floor scenery and reduce the "track along the edge of the layout" effect that I sense you want to avoid.
                      I'd look into putting a smelter in the area down below near the lower wye.  If you can get your hands on a Raggs Rose-Walsh smelter kit that would be perfect.
                      Add a sampling tower to the smelter so it would handle incoming trade from other mining companies throughout the area giving logic for carloads to arrive from either end of the line.
                      Ed Weldon

                      --

                      "Whilst looking to the future, do not forget the glories of the past."

                      F.O.P.S.

                    • stoney17111@yahoo.com
                      Hello All,   Enjoy:   http://www.gotmesker.com/   Regards, M. Stonbraker Hello All, Enjoy: http://www.gotmesker.com/ Regards, M. Stonbraker
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 11, 2012
                        Hello All,
                         
                        Enjoy:
                         
                         
                        Regards,
                        M. Stonbraker
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