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Thursday, February 28, 2002

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  • Jerry Katz
    JAN BARENDRECHT JAN GIVES AWAY A WON VACATION I have too much time on my hands. --Nina Great! Then you could do me a favor: I did win a holiday for an entire
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 2, 2002


      "I have too much time on my hands." --Nina

      Great! Then you could do me a favor: I did win a
      holiday for an entire family to Magicoorlando due
      to its 100th anniversary. And i would like to
      donate it to a (poor) family with kids, living "
      North", that needs both a break and some sunshine.
      So find one, and i'll E-mail it the phone-number
      and the confirmation number for the holiday.

      "Jan, if you're serious and not just flurking
      around with me, I'll do it. Would you prefer a
      family in Austria, the Czech Republic, Germany,
      France, Belgium or Spain? Uh - forget Spain - they
      get enough sunshine." --Nina

      Of course i'm serious - the interest in
      mass-entertainment disappeared some 33 years ago. I
      didn't sign up to win such a "luxury" holiday,
      living in a kind of "holiday paradise" already.
      Knowing that countries having been part of the
      former Soviet Union still show the wounds of that,
      it would be sensible to select a family from the
      Czech Republic..



      Hi, Jody,

      Here's another way to interpret Caio's words.
      (Given that "my thoughts" at first coincided with

      Caio seems to be pointing to the scenario in which
      homosexuality (and any state of 'other') doesn't
      exist as 'particular' until it is categorized by
      someone who wishes to say 'that I am not'.

      It is a scenario in which homosexuality exists as a
      quality in everyone until someone cuts it out as a
      'character flaw', defining it, making it easier to
      label as 'bad' and to then to deny one's personal
      access to those aspects and to defend oneself
      against that which has been isolated as 'bad'.

      So, perhaps what first sounds like ignorance is not
      so ignorant afterall, just coming from a direction
      that is difficult to reconcile with the current
      politics of 'difference noting'.

      best, Nina

      P.S. I laughed when I re-read your question about
      whether or not Caio knows anyone who is gay, as
      Caio could very well be saying that we are all gay.


      He's welcome to that opinion. There are those who
      prefer same sex partners. They are called gay.
      There are those who prefer either partner. They are
      called bi. There are those who prefer opposite sex
      partners. They are called hetero. While all these
      are indeed labels, that doesn't mean they don't
      exist, or have never existed as recognizable
      categories. Throughout history there have been men
      who have sought men to be with. While they weren't
      always called "gay," they regardless existed as a
      population of individuals who shared this trait.

      Those who are gay have suffered much repression. In
      order to combat that repression they've had to come
      out of the closet. Being gay in the past simply
      meant being secretly gay. Today one can be openly
      gay. It doesn't matter what it's called. The
      categories have been around as long as humans have.

      Contending that the transgendered are
      psychologically ill is gross ignorance. Caio is
      talking right out of his ass.


      How about those "gays" who "were" "hetero"? And
      that TG described here, who turned into a "woman"
      and then back into a man? Is that guy gay or
      straight? And those men, not very common in the US,
      where black is black and white is white, who are
      not considered gay just because they're top? Or
      ancient Greek philosophers, who considered it to be
      morally acceptable for masters and pupils to have
      sex, as soon as the masters were top and pupils
      were bottom and only in that situation ). But
      they'd still have sex with their wives. They'd
      never think there's such a thing as a homosexual,
      only same-gender sex relations within certain moral

      And more: how could you classify this couple here
      in São Paulo: the woman is lesbian and is dressed
      like a man and the man is a travesti and they have
      typical man and woman intercourses ( that is, the
      travesti inserts his penis into her vagina! ). Are
      they gay or not??

      You see... these concepts, homo and
      heterosexuality, don't make any sense. They don't
      describe reality.


      Some of my best friends are TG's. An ex-girlfriend
      of mine had been a man, then several years before I
      met her, became a woman. She's now a man again, and
      he is one of my best friends.

      I don't think of gender as a binary, F/M thing. I
      think of it more as the colors of a rainbow. All,
      and anything.


      Nina, your kindness blows me away sometimes... such
      a sweet interpretation. Whether Caio meant it this
      way or not, we should all give someone such benefit
      of the doubt. (Now I'm re-thinking the whole "genes
      are doing it all" point of view, it does have some
      interesting merit to it, if it's just balanced with
      the nurture from the environment side.)

      Then I got to thinking about who I know that is
      gay. While of course they are not just in NYC, West
      Virginia is not so easy a place to be gay. Good old
      Richard did something so incredibly generous, it's
      really one of the nicest things anyone has ever
      done for me.

      When my 22 yr first marriage ended rather badly, I
      was having a very tough time financially supporting
      my 3 sons with no help from their Dad. So Richard
      asked me if I'd mind helping him out with a pool
      party he was giving, and I could pick up few extra
      bucks. He said his friends were bringing food, but
      he needed someone to set it all out and to tend the
      bar. I told him right then I didn't know much about
      mixing drinks, but he said no problem. I wondered
      if his friends wouldn't find my presence awkward,
      with me being the only woman there, again no

      Well, I never had so much fun. Somehow having to
      tell me how to mix their drink became hysterically
      funny, everyone seemed to go out of their way to be
      friendly and make conversation with me, to joke
      around. Some of the younger guys who seemed a
      little unsure of the scene hung out with "mom" just
      talking about this and that. But they were also
      stuffing dollars in a tip jar. No one did that at
      any catered parties I ever went to, we assumed the
      host was paying them. Richard just casually brushed
      off my questioning, said they always did that.
      After when we cleaned up the kitchen, Richard still
      insisted on paying me, along with this wad of money
      from tips. Back home, to my amazement, there were
      tens and fives in those tips and I had ended up
      with over $300 for a few hours of mostly laughing
      and having a great time. Richard would never admit
      to having put his friends up to this, shrugged it
      off as normal event. I still get tears in my eyes,
      10 years later. Yeah, I know some gay guys.


      so we get into krispy kreme on van nuys boulevard
      and there's a small line of people and a big line of doughnuts
      being cooked in hot oil
      receiving a shower of hot glaze
      then meeting Jessica

      She picks them up one at a time,
      warm and so light and tender,
      and hands each customer a free 'original glazed'.

      So everyone's munching on these warm light things
      while waiting for their donuts to be boxed.

      But I tell you, Jessica didn't smile at all
      and it was okay because she was so intent
      on taking the finished donut
      -- and it's a delicate donut --
      with wax paper in her fingers
      and handing it to the next customer that it took all her attention.
      She was in-volved.
      Not bored like the young folk at the A&W at Newark International Airport
      (Terminal C)
      where they gabbed while I stood there waiting to order a chili dog
      and then complained about their lives.

      Man, woman,
      woman, man.
      The ocean breaks. The root beer splashes. The hot glaze ... glazes:
      for Jessica,
      who and whatever 'she' or
      anyone one of us is


      Yeah, every now and then some of us need to
      be reminded that we're actually alive. --Jody

      .........lol, reminds me of the line in "Drugstore Cowboy", matt
      dillon has just been beat up and shot, the ambulance is coming, and
      you hear him thinking, "there's nothing like getting the shit kicked
      out of you to make you feel like you're alive". ...matthew

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