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Thursday, February 7, 2002

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  • Jerry Katz
    Because of Our Wisdom In many parts of the world water is Scarce and precious. People sometimes have to walk A great distance Then carry heavy jugs upon their
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 8, 2002
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      Because of Our Wisdom
       
                                    In many parts of the world water is
                                           Scarce and precious.
       
                                      People sometimes have to walk
                                              A great distance
       
                                     Then carry heavy jugs upon their
                                                  Heads.
       
                                   Because of our wisdom, we will travel
                                               Far for love.
       
                                         All movement is a sign of
                                                  Thirst.
       
                                         Most speaking really says,
                                       "I am hungry to know you."
       
                                     Every desire of your body is holy;
       
                                        Every desire of your body is
                                                   Holy.
       
                                                 Dear one,
                                       Why wait until you are dying
       
                                          To discover that divine
                                                  Truth?
       
       
      ("The Subject Tonight is Love" - versions of Hafiz by
      Daniel Ladinsky)

      __________________________________________________________________

      JAN SULTAN

      The Non-dual Reality has no aims or objectives, or likes or
      dislikes. It is just an unbiased, un-interfering observer.
      However, it is experiencing, the world fully via it's
      creatures senses. [Not that it is separate from its
      creatures].

      There is definitely no evidence of a human like 'god', who
      sits in judgement or interferes in any way [whether to
      reward or punish] in the enfolding of this manifestation.
      Anyway who is there to be judged? Unless of course it was
      part of the fiction/game.

      We [the manifest part of us] however can change, in however
      infinitesimal way, what is happening in this unplanned, yet
      regulated Universe. [Regulated by various laws of physics,
      evolution, spirit, etc.]

      Evolution! Now, how much part does this play in the game
      that is going on? Is the recent increase in spiritual [not
      blind religious] awareness a part of the evolution?
      Remember human beings have been on this world for more than
      6 million years and religion and spirituality are a recent
      phenomena.

      Why this interest in the 'game'? Because I am beginning to
      realize that it is as much a part of us as our non-dual
      roots. Burying our heads in the non-dual sand could also be
      part of the game, so no judgement there.

      What does your intuition/insight tell you? [I think the
      game and its rules could be different for each of us. Don't
      underestimate the power of 'all that/there is' (God).
      Remember the uniqueness of finger prints and snow flakes]
       

      GREG GOODE

      If something is an observer experiencing the world, it's
      not Non-Dual Reality. It's what's called the witness. It
      has objects, the witnessed. The witness is an important
      stage in gauged-teaching models, and serves to point out
      that it makes no sense that the objects exist or act on
      their own.

      ____________________________________________________________________

      JAN SULTAN

      Ramana says that the spiritual heart is situated on the
      right side of our chests. Aziz says that it is situated in
      the middle of the chest.

      I, myself have never felt it on the right side! Am I left
      hearted? :-) For me it is somewhere in the middle, more
      towards the left than the right. However when I feel
      emotionally moved then it expands all over and even wants
      to burst free!

      Is the emotional heart separate from the spiritual heart?

      What are your views on all this?

      VIORICA
      from HarshaSatsangh

      Q: You have said that the Heart is the centre of the Self.

      A: Yes, it is the one supreme centre of the Self. You need
         have no doubt about it. The real Self is there in the
         Heart behind the jiva or ego self.

      Q: Now be please to tell me where it is in the body.

      A: You cannot know it with your mind. You cannot realise it
         by imagination, when I tell you here is the centre
         [pointing to the right side of the chest]. The only
         direct way to realise it is to cease to fantasize and
         try to be yourself. When you realise, you automatically
         feel that the centre is there. This is the centre, the
         Heart, spoken of in the scriptures as Hrit-Guha [cavity
         of the heart], Arul [grace], Ullam [the Heart].

      Q: In no book have I found it stated that it is there.

      A: Long after I came here I chanced upon a verse in the
         Malayalam version of Ashtangahridayam, the standard work
         on Ayurveda [science of life, health and medicine],
         wherein the Ojas Sthana [source of bodily vitality or
         place of light] is mentioned as being located in the
         right side of the chest and called the seat of
         consciousness [samvit]. But I know of no other work
         which refers to it as being located there.

      Q: Can I be sure that the ancients meant this centre by the
         term 'Heart'?

      A: Yes that is so. But you should try to have rather than
         to locate the experience. A man need not find out where
         his eyes are situated when he wants to see. The Heart is
         there ever open to you if you care to enter it, ever
         supporting all your movements even when you are unaware.
         It is perhaps more proper to say that the Self is the
         Heart itself than to say that it is in the Heart.
         Really, the Self is the centre itself. It is everywhere,
         aware of itself as 'Heart', the Self-awareness.

      Sri Ramana Maharshi

      JAN BARENDRECHT

      In the course of events, three heart centers will be felt:

      1. the one at the center of the axis (sushumna) - one of
      the first 'painful' experiences denoting K. awakening
      2. the physical one (referred to by a psalm's phrase "test my
      kidneys and my heart") In alchemical and gnostic texts, the
      Holy Grail
      3. the one at the right of the axis, felt when
      all the other centers have been 'pierced'. So it is likely
      to be the last one noticed.

      These 3 events aren't path-specific but invariant road
      marks.

      "I, myself have never felt it on the right side! Am I left
      hearted?"

      Now you know why you didn't feel it - you haven't yet
      noticed the meaning of that psalm, or the Holy Grail :)
      That has to come first...

      "For me it is somewhere in the middle, more towards the
      left than the right. However when I feel emotionally moved
      then it expands all over and even wants to burst free!"

      In my case, in 1970, the 'rose of the heart' (center on
      axis) was the second event of a sudden and sharp burning
      pain. Not knowing what it meant, it didn't disturb the joy
      of 'awake and empty' but increased it beyond imagination!

      "Is the emotional heart separate from the spiritual heart?"

      There is no such separation - all centers are related also
      to emotions but each in a specific way.

      "What are your views on all this?"

      No views - just memories :) Great ones though faint - love,
      joy, laughter, ecstasy, boundless energy, just 3 hours of
      sleep/day. Only possible, when experientially knowing "
      there is nothing to lose" and living up to that..

      ____________________________________________________________

      ED ARRONS

      It could blow one's mind, one who has stood in awe of the
      night sky filled with stars, to think there are no stars
      out there other than the experienced perception of light,
      photons that have journyed for millions of light
      years...arriving home, having never left. Such is the
      hidden nature of memory, of experience, and of life itself.

      ________________________________________________________________

      JB789

      an 8 year old wonder preacher

      Seen a TV-program yesterday, on young preachers in the US..
      The kind of preachers who exercise 'spiritual warfare'
      against the Devil, as they call it. A father and his two
      sons, travelling across the US for years, 'spreading the
      word of the Lord'...

      The film showed first the older kid at 8 .. he was full of
      confidence preaching, gesticulating, repeating loudly 'yes
      Lord, we have Poweeeer over the Devil' and the audience
      would reply 'Halleluia.. !' and so on. Another preacher, 46
      years old came to be blessed by the kid. The reason was
      that after 30 some years of preaching, he was not doing so
      well, he was in a crises/depresion.. so the kid recommended
      'faith and reading the Bible some more'.. and put his hand
      on the older preacher's head, who thereupon started to
      shake and speak in tongues and then collapsed.

      The father was proud of him. The child had no friends. Got
      no school education. As soon as he would be with other
      kids, he would ask 'what time is it' and go away .. he
      would hardly ever have eye contact with them.

      At 14, .. one day when preaching, a woman came to him with
      her hands up in the air, ready to be saved/healed .. the
      kid puts his hand on her forhead and asks the Lord to
      remove the Devil who, he thought, possesed her.. also said
      that this is because she does not go to church to hear the
      word of the Bible, often enough .. Now, she happened to be
      a local priest's wife ... and her husband was in the hall
      also. At one point, very upset he (the local priest) starts
      to yell at the kid, denouncing him as being a false/fake
      preacher .. The kid got very ofended and hurt, and while
      the local priest and his wife were walking towards the
      door, the kid-preacher started to yell: 'Remove this Demon
      from your house my Lord.. OUT of my Saviour's House you
      Deeeeevil !' ..while pointing his intensely vibrating
      finger. (Well, it worked, of course.. he was on the way out
      anyway.)

      Following this incident, the kid went behind the stage and
      with his finger vigorously pointing at, supposedly the
      Devil ...roared : "How Can Youuuu Do this to me ?!.. after
      soooo many years of me preaching.. and you Still put bad
      thoughts in my head !?.. I will Not let youuuuu ... be lost
      you Demon !!..".. on and on went the conversation and the
      threats. (I imagine that the Devil.. -If he was around..
      which apparently 'Was' the case-,.. must've head a great
      time to see how he could affect a preacher ..)

      At 18, he was again interviewed .. he was hardly preaching
      any longer,..was alone mostly in his room, on his bed,
      sleeping much,.. but still travelling with the father. He
      was constantly depressed. No friends .. Asked how he was
      feeling, he said, faintly mumbling, that he "was tortured
      by the Devil" and sadly wondered "WHY would he do that to
      me ?!"

      His mother was also worried about him .. he would go around
      as if drunk with his eyes hardly open, and was incessantly
      touching his face and eyes, looking rather disturbed and
      damaged. His mother said, "he just needs a damn pair of
      glasses !, and he's gotta get a girlfriend like other boys
      and a job !",..but admitted that he and the father, were
      'Obsessed with demons, the Devil and hell'. She said he was
      'himself' and felt good only 1 out of 24 hours, while he
      was preaching. Even so, she was proud of her son being a
      preacher serving the Lord and to her, he was chosen by God.

      He was asked if he was happy. In a rather feeble and
      depressed tone of voice and rather reluctantly, he said '..
      not really .. uuuhh I don't know ..'

      His younger brother (about 10 yrs. old) was also to be
      ordained as a preacher.. by another preacher .. On the way
      to the place, his father told him how proud he was to have
      him continue the spiritual warefare aginst the Devil,..

      At one point the father asks the young son : "Son .. are
      you looking forwards to be Ordained ?!" And the son replies
      "Oh Yaaaaa !".. and two seconds later he adds : " .. What
      is 'Ordained' Daddy ?!"

      At the end of the documentary (I have to underline.. this
      was not a fiction-movie but a documentary) the older son,
      now 20, was asked what he would like in his life .. He
      replied "I would like a church, filled with 5.000 people,
      to whom I can talk and preach the word of the Lord .."...
      but his tone of voice was still revealing his depression
      and also the lack of confidence and eagerness, he used to
      have, at the age of 8.

      God and the Devil.. responsible for everything .. a tragedy
      of extreme dualism ? And the fight/warfare against the
      Devil, .. did _the fight_ create the Devil ? A case of
      intense conditioning, with no possibility for realease from
      it claws ? Apparently so... Would there be a 'Devil' if
      there was no 'God'.. and viceversa ? And is this
      conditioning, The 'devil' itsself ?

      His father was asked by the interviewer, in connection with
      the kids bad state : 'should'nt you just have him stop
      doing all this, and let him have a normal life ?' The
      father replied : 'Well, some doctor said he might be
      autistic, but they do not really know .. No, no,.. my son
      has been chosen to do the work of the Lord'. Apparently,
      _both_ of His sons. And he divorced his wife, and continued
      traveling, spreading the word and hoping one day, to have
      his own church.

      regards, Jb PS. In a way, the kid-preacher, is an enviable
      position .. a position where one can exercize power, one
      can send anyone whom one does not like to hell while others
      applaud, one is listened to and gets Hallluia feedbacks,
      one can indulge in desires for personal fame and success,
      one is never contradicted, one receives gifts from the
      congregation, one can channelize one's anger by projecting
      the Devil on the object of hatred, one can do swing on the
      emotional universe as one pleases, one can feel the
      strength generated by the attention of the yes-sayers
      listening, one can escape from one's depressions, one can
      freely judge another, one can generate fear in another (the
      Fear of God), one can regard oneself as a kind of a
      Superman fighting the Whole world's evil ones.. one has a
      meaning for the duration of one's whole life, ..and all
      this with the 'guarrantee' that in the end, one will be
      victorious .. and succesful .. and all this, in the name of
      the Lord.

      I mean,.. to win with one's opinion over another's, or a
      phylosophical/political dispute, must be sheer and fragile
      peanuts, compared to the 'joy the Lord can give' and the
      guarrantee for winning, while in his service.

      As a matter of fact, I know a bit about that joyful feeling
      of 'speaking for the Absolute Truth'.. (.. you too ?!) but
      alás, it does'nt last long .. _Some_ ignorant ! fool, comes
      along, and puts a needle into my bloated of self-worth and
      confidence baloon ..

      But then,.. they would Not dare to do such an evil thing,
      IF I was an Authorized speaker,.. would they ?!

      GENE POOLE
      Your posting is relevant.

      I have indulged in a good deal of Christian education, and
      rarely, only occasionally, have I heard the transcendental
      view which is (IMO) actually 'Christian', which is this:

      Satan tempted Eve (read: all of humanity) by introducing
      the concept that she could 'do' something, even though,
      everything was already being 'done for her' by God.

      It was the idea of 'doing' which Satan introduced, and
      which appeals to the childish 'ego' as 'I am doing'.

      Then, the arrival of Jesus, who signaled the end of warfare
      between God and humanity; Jesus message from His father,
      that 'you are forgiven', and the blood-pact with God, 'who
      gave his only son' as a mark of His Word.

      Jesus arrival, life, and death signified our newfound
      'maturity'; our faith is tested around the issue of his
      ressurection; "Let God Do It".

      It is the issue of 'doing' which has to be confronted now
      that we have the sophistication to understand the subtle
      distinctions involved.

      The failure of the Christian way, is to neglect to
      understand that indeed, Jesus 'won the battle against
      Satan', and that we merely have to stand with Him, to enjoy
      the benefits of his sacrifice, and thus also to commune
      with God The Father.

      Fundamentalists of all stripe miss the mark, when
      advocating 'doing', as though something could actually be
      'done'.

      The actual parallel between Christianity and nondualism
      (using those terms is somehow painful) occurs in the
      abiding; one may call it 'faith' or 'realization', as well.
      Our troubles are over, when we finally put aside the hubris
      of the assumption of 'doing' ('ye can be as God!' was the
      first temptation).

      The issue of the existence of a 'do-er' is secondary to the
      point of whether 'doing' is possible. It seems possible,
      and that is exactly the temptation to lead one out of
      abiding in faith or realization.

      So even though 'Satan' still breaths his constant
      temptation, we are assured that by leaving behind the
      assumption that there is anything to be gained by 'doing' ,
      we allow God to do it all for us, which of course 'He' is
      already 'doing', as only 'God' can do.

      Abding, observing the flow within and without, a natural
      language is heard and eventually understood, and this is
      the voice of the living universe, revealing itself to us.
      It is a gentle voice, easily lost in the clamor of lives
      characterized by fighting a battle which was literally won
      (by design, not chance) centuries ago.

      Gene Poole

      [Note to reader: I mean no offense to Christian or to
      Christianity; I am expressing my own view of what is
      embedded in the Biblical/historical record. I am not a
      theologian, nor am I a 'practicing Christian' by most
      definintions. Hear ye; nothing need be done, but the Will
      of God.]
       

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