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Thursday, January 31

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  • Jerry Katz
    SUGAR GANDOLF Boxer, a dog, hind end wiggling, nibbling some street sweet... The lady, at the end of her rope, reaches into doggie s mouth, exasperated. What a
    Message 1 of 1 , Feb 1, 2002

      Boxer, a dog, hind end wiggling, nibbling some street
      sweet... The lady, at the end of her rope, reaches into
      doggie's mouth, exasperated.

      What a sight these two make!

      The lady is kind. The boxer, sincere, sure this is a very
      important donut.

      I laugh, No need to go anywhere, Nothing to change here

      (You are a movie star in ruffian costume, Nibbling where
      you can.)



      As long as there is an "I" there will be duality. And since
      "I" does not exist apart prom perception, and what is
      perceived is not the actual, then duality likewise does not

      PS Also a James

      When you give a shilling to a beggar - do you realise that
      you are giving it to yourself?

      When you help a lame dog over a stile - do you realise that
      you yourself are being helped?

      When you kick a man when he is down - do you realise that
      you are kicking yourself?

      Give him another kick - if you deserve it!

      Wei Wu Wei -- All the doctrines are right in their own
      respective spheres--but if they encroach upon the province
      of other doctrines and try to refute their views, they are
      wrong. A man who holds the view of the cumulative character
      of truth never says that a particular view is right or that
      a particular view is wrong.

      Jainism. Sanmatitarka of Siddhasena 1.28


      Blessings Penn,

      I feel that the ground of being includes duality and it is

      I know that it sounds paradoxical - yet it is so.

      There are two AND they are not TWO - it is the way the One
      'appears' - it can be explained to certain extent by saying
      that the *appearance* of separation as 'I' and 'other' is
      the only way that the One can 'see' Itself. - and so
      everything arises and falls together.

      I am One that appears as two.

      I am reality-unreality.

      I am 'I am'.

      I am OneDuality-NonDuality.

      As you say, if one dwells on the particular, then either
      directly or indirectly, this 'makes' the other wrong. And
      if one holds the cumulative character of truth one never
      says that a particular view is right or that a particular
      view is wrong.

      So, I am saying that I am 'both' and the cumulative view is
      that 'both' are One - there is *no separation*.

      The other thing that I have said is that I can also 'speak'
      about this by honouring Silence - in other words, 'I am

      Thus I say, 'Everything arises together' - the arising is
      dulaistic in appearance and yet the Truth is that it is
      One. And, I say, 'Everything falls together' - when there
      is no arising - there is nothing.

      I am Nothing-Everything. Nothing and Everything are
      *different forms of the SAME thing*.

      To say that I am NonDual is to dwell on the particular.

      To say that I am OneDual is to dwell on the particular.

      To express the whole I say, 'I am OneDuality-NonDuality' or
      I am 'Everything-Nothing'




      I understand where you're commimg from here and see it as
      staying withing the maya (illusion) associated with
      existence. To exist implies an "I" which will of course
      carry duality with it. To trascend existence into a state
      of non-existence (a mystical realm that transcends reality
      as people tend to see) also transcends any need of duality.

      MP Penn

      PS A few quotes re this that might interest

      Abide not with dualism, Carefully avoid pursuing it; As
      soon as you have right and wrong, Confusion ensues, and
      Mind' is lost.

      Zen Buddhism

      The seeing of Truth cannot be dualistic (a 'thing' seen).
      It cannot be seen by a see-er, or via a see-er. There can
      only be a seeing which itself is Truth.

      Wei Wu Wei

      THIS which is seeking is THAT which is sought, and THAT
      which is sought is THIS which is seeking.

      Wei Wu Wei

      There being really no duality, pluralism is untrue. Until
      duality is transcended and at-one-ment realised,
      Enlightenment cannot be attained. The whole Sangsâna, as an
      inseperable unity, are one's mind.

      The Tibetan Book of Great Liberation

      If you would swim on the bosom of the ocean of Truth, you
      must reduce yourself to a zero.

      Mahatma Gandi

      Behold the One in all things. It is the second that leads
      you astray.


      With a single stroke we are freed from bondage; nothing
      clings to us and we hold to nothing. All is empty, clear,
      illuminating itself with no exertion of the minds power.
      Here thought, feeling, learning and imagination are
      worthless. In this Suchness there is no "I"; nor is there
      anything "other than I."


      If anyone wishes to be created afresh, then he must do
      everything in his power to enter the condition of
      nothingness, and then God will make out of him a new
      creation, and he will become as a spring which does not dry
      up and as a stream which does not cease to flow.

      Martin Buber

      Now you are going to ask me how to destroy this stark
      awareness of your self. You might be thinking that if you
      destroy this sense of your self you will destroy
      everythingelse too and you will be right. But I will answer
      this fear by telling you that without a very special grace
      from God and without a particular aptitude on your part,
      you will never beable to get rid of this naked sense of
      self. For your part, this aptitude consists of a robust and
      profound sorrow of spirit.....Everybody has a special
      reason for grief, but the person who has a deep experience
      of himself existing apart from God feels the most acute
      sorrow. Once we have aquired this sorrow it not only
      purifies our souls, but it takes away all the pain merited
      by sin and thus makes the soul capable of receivingthat joy
      which takes from a man all sense of his own being. If this
      sorrow is genuine, it is full of holy longing. Otherwise
      nobody could bear it.

      from The Cloud of Unknowing

      When you make the two as One, and the inside like the
      outside, you will enter the kingdom of Heaven.

      Gnostic Gospel of Thomas

      If you want to be immortal and exalted, first get rid of
      your Self, then summon a winged horse out of nowhere, to
      carry you away. Clothe yourself with the garments of
      nothingness, and your head with a robe of non-existence.
      Put your foot in the stirrup of renunciation, and looking
      straight ahead, ride the steed of non-being to the place of
      emptiness. You'll get lost over and over again, but travel
      with equanimity, until at last you reach the world where
      you are completely lost altogether. Attar

      Non-existence within existence is my rule. Getting lost in
      getting lost is my religion.

      Ayn Hamadani

      The Sangsâra is no more than one's own thought. With effort
      one should therefore cleanse the thought. What one
      thinketh, that doth one become. This is the eternal

      Maitri Upanishad vi. 34

      Then neither Being nor Not-being was, Nor atmosphere, nor
      firmament, nor what is beyond. What did it encompass?
      Where? In whose protection? What was water, the deep,

      Who knows truly? Who can here declare it? Whence it was
      born, whence is this emanation. By the emanation of this
      the gods Only later [came to be]. Who then knows whence it
      has arisen?

      Whence this emanation hath arisen, Whether [God] disposed
      it, or whether he did not, --- Only he who is its overseer
      in the highest heavens knows. [He only knows,] or perhaps
      he does not know!

      Rig Veda

      He who has no thought of "I" and "mine" whatever towards
      his mind and body, he who grieves not for that which he has
      not, he is, indeed, called a bhikkhu.

      Buddhism. Dhammapada 367

      There is no becoming. ALL IS.

      Wei Wu Wei

      We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather
      are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.

      Wei Wu Wei

      Reality alone exists - and that we are. All the rest is
      only a dream, a dream of the One Mind, which is our mind
      without the 'our'. Is it so hard to accept? Is it so
      difficult to assimilate and to live?

      Wei Wu Wei

      Truth is that which lies in a dimension beyond the reach of

      Whole-mind has no 'thoughts', thoughts are split-mind.

      Wei Wu Wei

      It is necessary to understand that I Am, In order that I
      may know that I Am Not, So that, at last, I may realise
      that, I Am Not, therefore I Am.

      Wei Wu Wei


      Hello again Penn,

      here is my definition of illusion...

      illusion: I am not here

      We are saying the same thing in different ways. Thanks for
      all the quotes.
      illusion: I am not here
      illusion: I am here

      These are two different forms of the *same* thing. They
      'appear' to be opposite and dualistic. The reality is that
      they are One. By itself each is incomplete. United, they
      represent the 'whole' which is greater than the sum of the
      individual parts.


      I looked around and you're not here ;)

      -- The enlightenment consists of a mysterious light which
      the shaman suddenly feels in his body, inside his head,
      within the brain, an inexplicable searchlight, a luminous
      fire... for he can now, even with closed eyes, see through
      darkness and perceive things and coming events which are
      hidden from others: thus they look into the future and into
      the secrets of others.

      The candidate obtains this mystical light after long hours
      of waiting, sitting on a bench in his hut and invoking the
      spirits. When he experiences it for the first time, it is
      as if the house in which he is suddenly rises, he sees far
      ahead of him, through mountains, exactly as if the earth
      were one great plain, and his eyes could reach to the end
      of the earth. Nothing is hidden from him any longer; not
      only can he see things far, far away, but he can also
      discover souls, stolen souls, which are either kept
      concealed in far, strange lands or have been taken up or
      down to the Land of the Dead.

      Native American Religions Iglulik Eskimo Shaman Initiation



      "Yes, everything that could be said has been said, but we
      have to say it again because no one was listening."

      -- Anatole France

      That was remarked before the media were set up to compete
      for attention. The change from potential listener to
      mass-media consumer is a guarantee for listening to become
      extinct, despite the media's loudness - which could be said
      to be instrumental too for such development as the
      organism's way of self-protection.

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