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01/27/02 Sunday

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  • Gloria Lee
    ********************* DAVID HODGES Croissants, not donuts, same idea though Here s a poem I read recently and liked. It follows on the baked goods theme we ve
    Message 1 of 1 , Jan 28, 2002
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      *********************
       
      DAVID HODGES
      Croissants, not donuts, same idea though

      Here's a poem I read recently and liked. It follows on the baked goods
      theme we've had here on NDS lately:

      Early in the morning
      Of a lovely summer day,
      As they lowered the bright awning
      At the outdoor cafe,
      I was breakfasting on croissants,
      and cafe au lait
      Under greenery like scenery,
      Rue Francois Premier.

      They were hosing the hot pavement
      With a dash of flashing spray
      And a smell of summer flowers
      When the dust is drenched away.
      Under greenery like scenery,
      Rue Fancois Premier,
      I was twenty and a lover
      And in Paradise to stay.
      Very early in the morning
      Of a lovely summer day.

      -- Robert Hillyer


      JERRY KATZ
      Croissants, not donuts, same idea though
       
      Great, man! What a scene that's painted. It shows, you can say the most
      ordinary stuff -- "Early in the morning/Of a lovely summer day" -- and do a
      few little things to it with rhyme and images, and blow peoples minds away.
      It's so effortless.

      I was in Chapters book store last night. In case anyone doesn't know, it's
      one of those huge bookstores with comfortable chairs you can sit in and read.
      There's a Starbucks inside the store. You get the picture. I really don't
      care for it because you can only get one of kerouac's titles (On The Road)
      and shelf after shelf of Stephen King. You get the picture. It's just popular
      stuff mostly.

      So they have a huge magazine rack. And I'm waiting for my friend to use the
      restroom. So in the last rack in back they have three or four token Canadian
      literary magazines. I pick one up and read someone's poem. Then I look up and
      look at the thousands of splashy popular magazines. My feeling was that in
      one word of this obscure person's poetry there's more feeling and soul than
      in all the splashy magazines put together, because I had the opportunity to
      be connected with a human being instead of a corporate/lifestyle image.

      Having said that, starbucks does have damn good coffee and sweets, but you
      know what i'm saying.

      thanks,
      jerry


      DAVID
       
      Jerry - That's it. Exactly.

      Like, I was sitting at my little writing table by the window, looking out
      at the street, yesterday morning. I wrote a lot of words but these are the
      words that had the most presence:

      I like her
      That girl walking by
      With the big white dog

      David

      JERRY
       
      i'm gonna fight you for her, David. i really dig that chick, okay?

      I'm always thinking of that Great Nonduality Book, and that's the kind
      of stuff that needs to be brought together. somehow melded with the
      nondual rap given in standard and non-standard ways. Maybe I should just
      print out all the stuff i just plain like a lot and then see how it all
      fits together. Make it a bundle of joy rather than bundle of text that
      'ought' to be included. I know it's not realistic from a business point
      of view, but that's too bad, I guess.

      And then there's this situation given by Aziz, quoted here, where he
      says only certain people should come forth to teach. I don't buy that. I
      re-wrote one of my earlier pieces and put it on my live journal:
      <http://www.livejournal.com/users/awesboss>. It speaks of the multitudes
      coming forth to teach.

      as far as that book... one of these days, one of these days...

      jerry
       

      JAMES & JERRY
       
      >
      >       NonDuality means 'not
      two'  AND  'All is One'.
      >
      >       The very word
      NonDuality obviously refers to two and it says
      > that that which appears
      as two, which means separate, is not separate.
      > It avoids making a
      concluding statement and through negation it
      > reveals that 'not two' AND
      'All is One' are ***different forms of the
      > same thing*** that *appear*
      to be separate.
      >
      >       OneDuality
      also states the obvious - it says that which appears
      > as two, separate,
      is One - they are different forms of the same thing.
      >
      >       Thus, NonDuality and
      OneDuality are different ways to express
      > the same thing. By themselves
      each is incomplete, unreal. United in
      > their quiddity, they represent
      Reality-Unreality, the Whole, which is
      > greater than the sum of the
      individual parts.
      >
      > Love,
      > James

      This makes sense to me. I know we share common ground, so I want to see what
      I'm really saying when I speak of nonduality and oneness being different.
      When I speak about oneness differing from nonduality, I'm referring to
      oneness as a verb, a coming together of energies that appeared to be
      separate, a oneness experience. In that sense, nonduality, as I see it, isn't
      about the mystical experience of unity with God. Because there never was any
      separation. Oneness is not brought about in any way, there isn't oneness
      'with' anything; oneness is what is. Is this close to what you're saying?

      Love,
      Jerry

      ERIC BLACKSTEAD
       
      Valerie & Friends,

      Dear Valerie. When I started out as a teenager reading Beat/Buddhism,
      I was deeply moved by the lack of dogma (and celestial topography) in
      what Suzuki gave me to understand was Zen Buddhism. Since then, I've
      read pretty extensively in all the major religions (assuming that you
      will accept the old testament as basic Judaism). Interestingly
      enough, one of the things that they all have in common is the belief
      in alternate lokas or realms, that is to say, heavens, pergatories
      and hells. Buddhism, contrary to my 1st uninformed understanding, is
      right up their with all the rest.

      Where is your friend, Richard? You have portrayed for us a secular
      kind of holy man, as Glo and others have pointed out. Does it seem
      logical to you that a man who gave so much of himself to reenforce
      the 2nd overarching commandment of all religions, "treat others as
      would have them treat you", isn't being well cared for in turn?

      yours in the bonds,
      eric

       
      SARLO
       

      Buddhism may be up here with the rest, but that doesn't mean Buddha propagated such stuff. It's the people who came after who did that, or the ones where Buddhism migrated and adapted to the existing local religion. The reason Zen managed to stay so clear of these accretions was that it represents Buddhism merged with Taoism, itself a relatively bullshit-free zone.

      We may speculate that other religions have meandered far from the vision of their "founders," and adopted all kinds of silly superstitions. That these superstitions occur in all the major religions may say less about their truth than about the ability of the conditioned and socially reinforced mind to corrupt anything.

      Interesting variations do occur though. The esoteric streams of most religions understand a bit more how irrelevant some of these stories are but can also get into their own stratospheres of mumbo-jumbo. Hinduism may be the most interesting, as it also sports an overt advaita stream which can accept the whole panoply of practices yet keep to a pure, sophisticated non-dual understanding.

      Cheers, Sarlo

      JERRY
       
      > Is Jerry's original vision for NDS what is happening here?
      > If
      not, is the deviation desirable, or is it fatal to the
      > purpose of this
      list?
      >
      > Because a list 'is communication', the issue of
      >
      communication is IMO, always topical, as a constant
      > issue, at a level
      below the stated topic of the list.
      > And I think this what Jerry was
      addressing in his post.
      >
      > ==Gene Poole==

      Hi Gene and Ed,

      Questions of 'peerdom and putative protocols' (say that 6 times fast)
      have been addressed as needed. Well, peerdom has never been directly
      addressed. It's defined by those who come along and stick out like the
      sore thumb. In fact Tom Thumb himself tried to join. Not that we're
      better than those who stick out. We're just ... better.

      At this point in the history of this list, we see where the original
      vision has been achieved. We sought to hear out all who wished to speak
      the nondual rap in their unique way. We let them speak and we did so
      ourselves. We foresaw the establishment of so many 'nonduality' lists
      that no one would be able to keep up with them (truly unimaginable 3 or
      4 years ago), and that happened.

      Right now I don't see the community of lists trending anywhere. There's
      no demand for the free-for-all we had here. This is a time of settling
      down, people exploring the various offerings, and seeing what happens.
      NDS is part of that settling and it's fine.

      I still see an increase in the number of in-person retreats and get
      togethers. I see NDS doing a strange thing. It's like NDS has no
      teaching and no leader/teacher who people look to for 'the teaching'. I
      might be a leader in an administrative way. People don't look to me for
      'the teaching'. There's no Andrew Cohen type leader of this group. It's
      just us chickens. There are many leaders, followers, teachers, students.
      Everyone can fill all those roles. With no leadership and no teaching,
      we are still something. There's still something wordless that's
      identifiable.

      Being 'almost nothing' makes all the sense in the world. Afterall. The
      less we are, the more we are what we are. I once had a white calendar
      with a white circle on it. We're the white circle, barely noticeable,
      but there.

      I predict that this is the future great world religion. I really mean
      it. Imagine a being from another world visiting our world with this new
      religion. These beings would know there was something going on
      spiritually, but they would never find it in a book, a temple, a ritual.

      The purity sounds so good.

      Just imagine, me, a guy who starts a new world religion. I better
      replace all references to eating donuts with mention of sweet milk,
      honey, fine oils, golden grains. Wait a minute. Those are the
      ingredients of donuts!

      jerry



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