- ********************attachment is email of Jan's poem with picture********************GENE POOLEEd: Re: Parsing (some questions)NDS
>Some questions have come up pertaining to your
>Are peers, as you deÞne them, equivalent to
>regard to the issue of separateness?In short, no. More on this at the end of this posting.
>If peers are not equivalentto particles what do you think
>would activate their communication witheach other?
Basically, willingness to come out and say something.
>If peers are equivalent to particles, is not the factof
>perceived separation an underlying motivation fortheir
>communication?Well, if you are implying that people communicate only
because of perceived separateness, I would disagree.
>The admission by peers that separateness wassensed
>between them would support the idea thattheir
>communication would beneÞt by more forthright discussionactual everyday experience.
Yes, this seems to be a true statement, and is close to
what I was saying, and how I actually feel.
>Wonderingif this and/or something else is what you are
>suggesting?Ed, thanks for asking.
What is 'really going on' may be more pleasing to know,
and more fantastic, than can easily be imagined.
Consider that 'all of us' are vital factors of a very
important, and evolving, conversation.
This conversation is taking place not between
particles, but between factors of what is essentially
'one thing'. It is the nature of the conversation, to
reflect the growing and evolving nature of this 'one
thing'. Strange as it may seem, it is alive, living
conversation between alive and living Beings, which
allows refinement of this 'one thing'.
'One thing' holding many conversations within itself;
how many 'languages' are there, expressing right now?
Are we to treat only words as language, or does language
also encompass DNA, species mutation, and even the
Make no mistake; I am proposing, or stating, that our
conversation is a process of refinement, deliberately
conducted by 'one thing' for the expression and even
exaltation of the nature of the 'one thing'.
Whether we feel that there really are particles or not,
is not really an issue. The issue is for us humans, to
continue the game.
Know it or not, those who seek finality, those who seek
or think they have found final conclusions, have concluded
wrongly. The point is to continue, not to stop.
So those who advocate cessation as 'answer', show that
they do not comprehend that the 'question' actually mutates
continually, and that continuing conversation tracks and follows
This continuing expression is contributing to our evolution,
for better or worse. Remember Jerry's advocacy of
conversing for the sheer joy of expounding?
Our conversation is considered by some to be an important
exercise in 'problem solving'; some of these, consider that
the answers are already known, and need merely to be
assimilated, understood, and applied, to solve certain problems.
While it may seem that refinement is indeed problem
solving, we have seen and know, that the processes of
thinking and expressing are considered to be 'problems'
in and of themselves, and that some people are of the
opinion that such processes should be quenched, avoided,
or stifled, for a 'higher purpose'.
I am proposing, or stating, that our conversation is
an expression of the 'one thing'. Any individual is free
to attune, by using the compass of pleasure; trial and
error are allowed, in the process of refinement. The
'one thing' apparently wants or needs our refinement,
and our attunement, for itself. Our birth, and our giving birth,
may represent the importance which is given to our
expression, and to the continuation of our ability to express.
One who tries this, one who allows an inner sense of
what is harmony, to guide to greater harmony, may
be contributing more, than is apparent to that one. It
is not to be found in conformance, adherence, or
obedience, but in simple freedom, and everyone has
inherent sense of what is beautiful and pleasant.
It has taken (it seems) millions of years for us to reach
this point of possibility; we have mass instant communication;
we can quickly surpass any known level of group or collective
intention, organization, and harmony as individuals. It may
be time to break away from group-think and the assumptions
that specific beliefs must be shared, for there to be harmony
among individuals. It may be enough, at last, for individuals
to have peace within themselves, without the assumption
that there has to be an overt outer movement.
In the evolvement that is occurring, it must be allowed for
individuals to express and to communicate outside of the
traditional formal ways and means which we usually
identify with. It may be not only adequate, but preferred,
to be individuals, 'indivisible one', as is the 'one thing'
which we all really are, anyway.
So the issue of particles is a very important one, for
we are more than a collection of particles conversing;
we are instead, one thing conversing within itself.
Somewhere, there is a suggestion about 'making a
==Gene Poole==CHRISTIANAa particle parses a living momentWords, those familiar parsing tools of 'reality', seem of late to have surrendered their meaning. The comforting ledges of beliefs, ideas and ideals, as well as absence of same, have been leveled. Immersion into This, nudged by grace and duplicity of life. A dimly echoed question remained. How does one, who has danced in words, commune with others without them? Resting for months in this question, what has emerged are the words: pattern, rhythm, texture. Awareness has shifted to a different matrix of information.I read and have pondered this guidance about listening to Bach: the patterns in this music are more 'horizontal' than 'vertical' and one must listen 'horizontally' to get it.Tonight three hours of patterns-rhythms-textures danced through me as hundreds of thousands of musical notes. The offering from Garrick Ohlsson's piano genius. A heart-body's memory of one living as the essence of Chopin. Played seamlessly, with the mastery of complexity only a human-in-love can offer. I can not discern if listening was 'horizontal' or 'vertical' or a-directional. What seems so is that communion happened.The final piece included these terms Andante spianatoAndante: moderately slow --- A movement or passage in a moderate tempo.[From Italian andare, to walk.]
Spianato: smooth, leveled, planed, even, tranquil
And I am left with a heart smile awareness that it is This, a moderate, slow walk wrought by what has been planed smooth, which offers abiding communion with others.. with or without words, in all directions.
By the way.. Chopin is often referred to as a "salon composer". Tonight, this is my parsed particle of living heart composition to this salon.
Christiana, who is grateful to be here amongst you
Harshaji & Friends,
Harshaji. Nice to have you back. I hope yours time with your family
was relaxing and enjoyable. I've been holding off bringing up some
subjects until you were back with us again.
The first is a suggestion about HS Magazine. As there are quite a few
nondualism/spirituality/kundalini magazines presented by various
related forums, and because all of them seem to have to stretch to
come up with enough original material every 3 or 4 months, it's
occured to me that if you (Harsha) got together with Jerry, Gene and
other interested nondual etc. list owners and editors, you could
probably put together a dynamic, enjoyable and ORIGINAL magazine as
often as every 1 or 2 months.
Wouldn't everybody benefit from this? All the readers would benefit
from access to much more high quality material in one place, and they
would get to do it more frequently. Important subjects would inspire
conversation on a group of related sites relative to one subject at a
time, thus providing us a broader base and deeper interest from more
concerned readers. A Common magazine would be an obvious improvement
on quality from each of the individual mags, and would undoubtedly
begin to develope a larger audience as word of such a quality
offering would spread across the web to other forumites with a less
intense but still evident interest...and of course, quality tends to
call to and reach towards MORE quality, suggesting we consider the
logical anomaly...can Nonduality be synergistic?
Let me add, that with regards to material that might not make the
cut, but holding genuine relevance for any particular list, it can
always be included in that list's posting of the Common Big (or
What do you think, Harsha? What do the rest of you think? I'll post
this same idea on the rest of the sites that I'm familiar with
tomorrow or the next day, providing that one or some of you don't
come up with "a discouraging word" to suggest that nondual subjects
continue to "range" a little closer to "home".
yours in the bonds,
We are the clumsy passersby, we push past each other with elbows,
with feet, with trousers, with suitcases,
we get off the train, the jet plane, the ship, we step down
in our wrinkled suits and sinister hats.
We are all guilty, we are all sinners,
we come from dead-end hotels or industrial peace,
this might be our last clean shirt,
we have misplaced our tie,
yet even so, on the edge of panic, pompous,
sons of bitches who move in the highest circles
or quiet types who don't owe anything to anybody,
we are one and the same, the same in time's eyes,
or in solitude's: we are the poor devils
who earn a living and a death working
bureautragically or in the usual ways,
sitting down or packed together in subway stations,
boats, mines, research centers, jails,
(under our clothes the same thirsty skin),
(the hair, the same hair, only in different colors).
Deep stuff lately on the living conversation of 'the one thing'. Offlist in my workaday world with the developmentally disabled, the sophistication of our conversation here is extrapolated 'to include them'. Jerry has been interested in buying me a house daily for the last 8 years, another wants only to converse about my gaining for him a shirt, hat, and gloves with his name, Eddie, on them. Sharon laughs seldom but enjoys the accusation of having 6 fingers on one hand. Jonathon wants only to talk about who let the dogs out. Karl asks if I want to see his penis. Philip can't speak or hear and I can't sign but we have a sign of holding an open hand, thumb against nose, to denote any confusion or craziness that comes up. Etc. They wanted as a group for me to tell you/us that they are definitely interested in the course of what is being said about 'the one thing'. As we are saying to each other, I will say to them, in a manner tailored to each, that the conversation is richer than can be imagined. Thanks, JohnMARTHA RAMSEYgreetings.
i am imagining that as awareness and presence grow, gradually words
become more and more simply embodiments of that silence. silence (as
quality not quantity) would enter more and more, both in between and
during the articulation of each word. one's speech/writing would appear
to be becoming more clear and simple, in the words, while what the words
describe and point to and invite and evoke would be manifested through
them in greater depth, largeness, and precision.
daring to speak to this group, into this storm of words for which i am
holding on as tight as i can.JERRY KATZi like seeing your post next to john metzgers. more activities of the
street. heard from jody today, saying he'll join us in la jolla.
anyone else in southern California like to join us for the evening feb.
16, in la jolla? it'll be casual, perhaps at someone's comfortable
cottage. christiana, cee, chuck hillig, rudy, jody, myself, ron
perrymore, thomas murphy, and others will show up as people bring their
friends. metta zetty might stop in. she's a featured speaker this year.
write me or christiana if you're interested. you don't have to be
signed-up for the inner directions gathering to join us.
Thank you for your letter. It's really too bad you won't be around when
we're there feb. 15-17. I'm sure we'll meet another time.
There will be a retreat in Nova Scotia, October 11-13, 2002. The web
page telling about it is at <http://nonduality.com/retreat.htm>, in case
you find yourself in that part of the world.
I remind readers that you're 21 years old, in the U.S. Navy, and a
spiritual prodigy who can handle anything thrown at you. We keep trying
to scare the Landmark graduates, but no luck so far.
JerryDAN BERKOWnondualityWell-said, and well-observed, Jerry.
The need to maintain the "tour guide" as
"tour guide" is avoidance of what you
are terming "void" ...
Any need to "get rid of tour guides" also
is a form of avoidance and self-distraction ...
The "tourguide" is a signpost, and the destination
is not even the Twilight Zone --
it's only who you already are, but have confused yourself
The signpost might be read, not only as "nonduality"
but "the end of your reality."
So, yes, there is fear, and guides, and
the end of fear and guides.
In/as love, and what is beyond love and any
I've already offended all my own gurus and guides, visionary angel men,
mantras and knowings, religious upbringing, mother and father. When you stand
alone, that happens. It's their problem, not mine.
I never meant for you to leave the list. This will sound further offensive,
and I apologize in advance, but I was referring to leaving your relationship
I don't claim to have advanced knowledge, just to be speaking from where I
am. I don't know what's right or wrong, what's true and what's not, and don't
claim to. But I do speak from where I'm at. Forgive me and stay on the list
if you would like. I'll try to stay out of your way.ED AARONSparsing/GeneGene wrote:"One of my disciplines is to dare to say or write what is
considered impossible to state. I find little use for constant
reiteration, in conventional language, of the same old
formulae for 'attainment' or 'transcendance', especially as
prattled in 'newbie-101', condescension-styled, error-ridden,
yet oh-so-socially-approved, do-gooder-idealistic style.I find that there is an unfortunate tradition which dogs
us all, which is embedded in our culture, and which
exerts a tragically retarding effect. This is, to never dare
to speak from the point of view of actual experience, but
to instead to duck the possibility of uncomfortable accusations,
by always repeating 'beginners lessons' in lieu of honest
and straightforward conversation among peers. I am sure
that there can be other interpretations of what evidences this
sodden trend, but from my own POV, the lack of straight
peer-to-peer conversation turns the whole scene into
an unfortunate charade. "---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------As I reflect on the above statements, I sense the difficulty in speaking from the point of view of actual experience on a list that supposedly views such experience as false, illusory or even non-existent.Ed