Nonduality Salon highlights for Wednesday, Sept 1
On 8/31/99 at 10:56 PM magus@... wrote:
>It amuses me to consider that if and when humans ever
establish colonies on
>other planets, that by that time, the technology of what is
>'internet' will probably allow linking to those remote
>In fact... it is possible that one may someday be able to
>'teleport' themselves to faraway places, using the equivalent
>home computer system. I sincerely hope that in that future,
>not the dominant software maker. I hesitate to imagine just
>might 'reassemble' on the other end of the relay link... not
to mention the
You are raising an interesting issue. It is both easy and fun
to assign all misery of PC computing to MS (remember the
"immortal" joke about the helicopter?) , but it is possible to
widen the perspective and bring in religion and meditation.
A bit of PC history:
When all of a sudden, IBM wanted a piece of the cake, seeing
the success of computers like Atari, Acorn, etc., IBM was in a
big hurry so for the "heart" of the computer a kind of mummy
as the processor was taken, only because it could readily be
produced. Microsoft already had designed CP/M as the 8 bit
"standard" operating system. The combination of IBM and MS was
the guarantee for a souped-up 8 bit processor (8088) running
on souped-up CP/M (called DOS). After that, the buzz-word
"backwards compatibility" was invented. It meant, on newer
machines all the old stuff had to run as well. Thanks to that,
there is a millennium problem. CP/M was never meant to run in
a network and office-dwellers want to automate everything;
this combination guarantees virus-paradise. Another point is,
IBM produced such a !!@#&() PC that there was a need for
hardware upgrades even before there was standardization for it
:) This guaranteed the possibility for hardware conflicts and
crashes (remember the Plug & Pray hype over "eliminating"
those conflicts, many years later?).
A parallel can be seen, when a new religion is introduced. If
"favorite old stuff" is incorporated, the chance for success &
popularity is increased, at the risk of losing the clarity and
simplicity, meant by the "reformer". In the course of events,
it will become impossible to see what was taken over and what
wasn't; clarity and simplicity will be lost. Matters like
reincarnation, creation, the existence of God, souls, heaven
and hell aren't essential for "knowing what IS"; rather, these
matters can be distractions. When a PC is newly designed with
modern hard- and software and doesn't have to face backwards
compatibility, it can be fast, bug-, virus- and
crash-resistant, easy to program too. Likewise, when the mind
dispenses with what isn't essential, it gains clarity and
speed of operation.
From "Christopher Wynter" <wynter@...>
From my experience ...
Enlightenment ... or end of darkness ..
comes when the conscious and the unconscious are no longer in conflict ...
then there is only bliss
> In deep sleep state there is no memory and there is no "I -
> thought". But it
> is not identical with Samaadhi. Similarly, erasure of memory is
> only removal
> of clutter. True liberation should come when one consciously realizes the
> ultimate 'unreality' of memory ,ego, and all of their by-products, lock ,
> stock and barrel ; "completely and instantly".
What you say makes sense. Both in deep sleep and in Nirvikalpa Samadhi,
there is no "I" thought, and there is no memory, as the functioning of the
mind (of which memory is the byproduct) remains absorbed. But the two states
are not the same as in Nirvikalpa Samadhi, there is fullness of awareness,
fullness of bliss, independent of mind, memory, etc. The question is raised
that when someone comes out of Nirvikalpa Samadhi, do they not recall the
state through the medium of mind and memory? My perspective is that
Nirvikalpa Samadhi, although it is experiential, at the same time reveals
the ground of all experience as Being only the Self. Therefore,
Self-Recognition, though giving life to mind and memory, is seen completely
independent of it. Self does not require an external medium (such as memory)
to Recognize It Self and to Be It Self. As far as what True Liberation is,
what you say makes sense, although anything that can be said beyond
Nirvikalpa is pure speculation from a mental perspective. All states of
experience and knowledge and all such perspectives disappear in Nirvikalpa.
From: "Mirror" <mirror@...>
I just subscribed to the Nonduality Salon, and I've been reading your posts
here. I subscribed to the list to share a mutual interest in what we call
non-duality. But even that word to me remains to be just another title for
that which we cannot explain, no matter how hard we try, no matter how many
words we spend on it.
Still, to me, to spend as many words as we can find on the 'inexpressable'
is what I enjoy most.
However, none of all expressions, pointers and analogies that I have ever
read or used to express existence, have ever come close to the simplicity
that it truly is. To wake up has been the simpelest thing I have ever done
in my entire life, for it was the only thing that needed no effort, needed
no understanding, needed no circumstances. The waking state is the only
self-supporting state there is. And it gave me such a deep laugh when I saw
that that's how it always had been, that it never was any different,
regardless of all 'my' efforts. And when I found out that there never even
was a 'me' who had made all the efforts, I really rolled over.
But still I fail to describe it even now. I feels kind of appropriate to
refer to it as 'the waking state', as if it were a state that was not there
when I was asleep. But the waking state includes all states, regardless of
sleep and ignorance. And actually, it is not a 'state' either.
I can't describe. All words come from it. Yet I fail miserably.
Still. It's great fun trying.
I am curious about images, veils and doorways.
I think of Castanada and living inside a bubble in
which what we see is really our "own" stuff being
reflected back to us. This is how I see images. Images
on the inside of the bubble which we have projected
out and are being reflected back. And the idea that we
are created in God's image. Or we are God's images.
Now veils I see as
a cover to hide from those can cannot see. Slight distortions
to keep those who might misuse either through ignorance
or intentionally. Doorways or portals I have not really
considered but perhaps you have to get to the doorway or
into the portal. I think it was Alice Bailey (ducking here <s>)
who talked about the Dweller on the Threshold or the thing
at the threshold (portal, doorway?) which if one was not
prepared would knock one straight down to the bottom of
the stairway. Different for each person.
Does it make sense when I say that you are aware of yourself? Yourself as a
person, with a body, with thoughts, with emotions?
Now see that it is not the person who is aware.
It's the other way around.
There is awareness of a person being present.
You are this awareness, not this person.
Now as I said, I am not very good at explaining this. But I'll try if you
Here's my version of the creation myth:
Beingness was being - eternally.
Somehow, beingness, which we
now call love, began to vibrate
some of itself into waves we now
call sound, and somehow sound
vibrated on itself into waves we
now call light.
Love as sound and light serpentined
itself into complexities and, love
enjoyed the dance evolving itself
as music, color and movement.
Variations upon variations
erupted and merged and
imagined themselves, in the
flash of a moment. Then slowing
and slowing, a slow dance of
light and sound forms eased into
time and space and solidity.
Somehow, there became
imagined fragments - boundaries -
in the continuous flow of beingness
evolving as sound and light and joy.
Somehow, some of these fragments
enjoyed so much the uniqueness of
their own expressions that they clung
to them, resisting the unending
newness of the dance. In clinging
to their imagined individuality they
lost awareness of the whole and
began to feel lost from love beingness,
original sound and light, and even
enjoyment. The lost ones turned
against each other, wanting to find
blame for their loss, and they turned
even against themselves in their
confusion, fear and shame.
The lostness was seen by the flowing
dancers, and so they reached to
the lost ones in any way that could
be danced. Some flowing dancers
even learned to be lost so they could
dance more closely with the lost ones
back to awareness of being whole.
Lost one began dancing with
flowing ones, though some were
danced in a hidden way and did
not even know how they became
found whole again. No-longer-lost
dancers were watchful of their previous
habit of trying to dance while clinging,
so they could stop immediately when
they noticed themselves holding on.
Until all danced freely again.
"In Tarot tradition, the Moon represents unconscious desires and the fears
that accompany the sense of losing control or falling into the unconscious
realm of sleep and dreams. However, if one is afraid to enter one's own
astral territory, one can never truly know oneself - and the mystery of
initiation is about little more than this.
The real confrontation that the Moon represents is the meeting with the
"Dweller on the Threshold" of which occult and esoteric teachers speak.
This is the giant force of accumulated evil or wrongdoings, the hideous
part of the self that a person would rather not look at and would like to
pretend doesn't exist, and which rises up at the point of real psychic
growth. This "demon" must not only be looked at, but integrated into the
being, in order to establish wholeness."
Sounds like Jung's 'Shadow', doesn't it?
And here's part of Van Morrison's lyric:
_Dweller on the Threshold_
I'm a dweller on the threshold
And I'm waiting at the door
And I'm standing in the darkness
I don't want to wait no more
I have seen without perceiving
I have been another man
Let me pierce the realm of glamour
So I know just what I am
the Dweller on the Threshold is a mythical figure
that predates Alice Bailey by millenia. The Dweller on the
Threshold could be considered as the necessary encounter of
Self with everything it wants to avoid by "having" the Truth.
E.g., it may want to avoid being humbled, or its own power,
or love, or being nothing, or loss. The intent to avoid is not
the intent that will reveal Truth.
I see images as doorways.
Although a door can be seen by some as a wall of separation.
To me, it's just another portal.
It just depends on how one uses it.
From: Kristie Shelloner <orleans@...>
I wish not to come to wakefulness
rather would I sleep
though neither calm nor restfull
I sink into the deep
where no awareness rises
of the passages of time,
yet the wakeful daily demons
still skate across my rhyme.
I look through tender hallways
to see my shadow there
but only find at sunrise
a shell that's thin and bare.
In sleeping dreams I taste the taste
of all the bitter times laid waste
in ashes and despair
of things I thought
and martyred bought
and no longer stand to care
I would I could lay simply down
and never rise to see them;
and stand alone
on shredded bone
to free them, simply free them.
not struggling or managing or trying to make it go away, just being where
I'm at: yuck,