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Friday, December 28

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  • Jerry Katz
    DAVE OSHANA from Oshana list How do you know that it is not possible to know how and when somone will wake up? One of the really funny, and seriously
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 29, 2001
      DAVE OSHANA from Oshana list

      How do you know that it is not possible to know how and when
      somone will wake up?

      One of the really funny, and seriously counter-productive,
      things about the contemporary seeking circuit is that seekers
      tell teachers what is right and what is wrong based upon
      myths and misunderstandings.

      I would take a more middle path on this. I'd agree that it's
      common to not know how and why awakening happens, but it is
      possible to get information about it as it iss happening, and
      to sense what how best to assist.

      It really is like giving birth even a re-birth.

      The baby is going to come anyway, right? Know one really
      knows exactly where and when the expectant mother will go
      into labour but there are recognisable signs. Midwives are
      acutely aware of a variety of signs that ordinary people are
      not, and of course the mother-to be definitely knows
      something big is coming down (similarly Awakening is

      So the baby is coming. What to do? Assist. Go with the
      contractions. Clear the canal. Reduce the unnnecessary pain.
      Help the mother rest. When the baby comes then what to do?
      Nothing - let baby feed on mum's milk, let mum feed baby.

      Yes, Teaching Enlightenment is Spiritual Midwifery. Baby is
      going to come anyway. Teacher smooths the way.

      Now, I can tell you that I have 'seen' awakening happen to my
      students. I have seen it close up and miles away.

      Did I choose it? No

      I waited for it.

      I waited even when the student had no idea that any waiting
      was going on. The Buddha waited under a tree. If you wait in
      the right place you can get it. But if you wait in the wrong
      place you will just get eaten alive by ants.

      Words are secondary to transmission. A few 'teachers' are
      repeating what they have heard, and while it may sound
      inspiring - no-one is waking up.

      Now, a teacher who has transmission, an enlightened person
      would, could sing "Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite"
      (Beatles, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band /Anthology 2)
      and someone would wake up.

      So, transmission is primary and words are secondary. This was
      Ramana Maharshi's approach, and you'll find it there around
      any truly awake person, e.g. Buddha, Papaji, Osho and any
      teacher of worth, e.g. Jesus Christ, Andrew Cohen. You no
      doubt felt energy around Adi Da (Da Free John).

      This energy is a good sign but not a proof. There are many
      energies, each teacher has their own flavour, and everyone
      has an energetic fingerprint.

      Words & books have a place but pathologically and tragically
      they tend to be places where spiritual emus and ostriches
      bury their heads. Some people aren't ready to wake up yet.

      I agree that my learning curve as a teacher is interesting.
      It fascinates me. But it's essentially the same event
      happening all of the time.

      Awakening Awakening Awakening!

      And that gives the same Transmision Transmision Transmision!

      You see either it's either Full Awakening or it's not. There
      is no evolution when ther is only ONE.

      love dave http://www.oshana.org



      Sometimes we think we have the power to control things....we
      have not... We try control our body, our friends, our mind,
      the outer and the inner world. In fact...we cannot even
      control our very digestion....we are not able to control
      anything in this world... "NOTHING IS UNDER CONTROL"

      We create a thing named enlightenment-way and we want have
      the dominion of that too... We can make nothing about
      anything.. We can't even stop this neurotic game we have
      created, this self-realization game...we may not give it
      up... There's no way.. We're all lost We're all blind...

      Who will help us?

      God? Ramana? Krishnamurti? Devil?

      They can't either...

      nothing can help us....


      What you say makes sense, because nothing is done. There's no
      doing. There's no controlling of one's environment. Who can
      help us see that nothing is actually done? Nothing and nobody
      can 'help'.


      from Social Train Wreck list

      There are some arguments in favor of the saying, modern
      society itself is anti-social. Because, not well-being is its
      goal but the continuation of established interests. Like
      those in the medical scene. There have been quite a few
      contraptions, using non-ionizing EM waves, with one common
      feature: not understanding why and how these devices are
      working. With the consequence, that many patients died for no
      reason but the conditioning of a ruling few. One pioneer in
      this field of healing is described here:
      http://www.cheniere.org/priore/background.htm Just one of the
      many examples met (i didn't file them)..



      To the conscious mind isn't falling into sleep and falling
      into Self the same thing?

      Both involuntary actions. Both shutting down or 'paying no
      attention to mind'. Both not possible when the activities of
      the mind are at beehive busyness level. Both more easily
      entered into when the mind gives up, surrenders playing the
      many games and roles it normally plays.

      Yet we have been falling asleep from when we were young and
      have not lost that ability. Whereas we have lost the ability
      of falling into Self.

      Yes. It can be that easy. Maybe even easier as you cannot
      fall asleep if you are not tired.

      Just some prattling! Any takers?



      Be quiet.
      You are awareness itself.
      Live in the happiness
      Of your own nature,
      Which is happiness itself.

      Ashtavakra Gita


      from Petros Truth list

      "For as long as universes exist and manifold sentient beings
      endure and suffer, may I too remain to dispel the misery of
      the world, leading all to perfect Enlightenment and

      -- Shantideva



      from The End of the Rope Ranch

      "Does anyone know the method for transforming negative
      emotions? Attempts to lift oneself out of negative emotions
      by becoming more consious while observing them have been

      **** Has it begun to dawn on you that what you're avoiding is
      actually the truth? What it comes down to is do you want to
      feel good, or do you want the truth? Everybody and their
      brother wants to feel good, nothing new there, ho-hum, some
      more sophisticated about it than others, that's what all this
      "spiritual" shit is about, just a subtle twist from the guy
      on the bar stool eyeing the girls. It's all the same game,
      just a different twist, one no better than the other. Like Da
      said, the guy puts down the girlie magazines and now he's got
      "religion", but it's the same game you see, all the game of
      avoidance. Or like Wayne puts it, "your noble search for God
      is nothing but a sly dodge." Duh?

      And something else, that's Gurdjieff's teaching in a
      nutshell, "intentional suffering". But I bet all you guys
      think he was just kidding somehow don't you?


      from The End of the Rope Ranch list


      Apparently it was the business of the old teacher as well :)
      Anyone having benefited in one way or another when in severe
      distress will want to become a rope-giver :) That's part of
      the human conditioning - one that runs rather deep as it even
      shows in cats...But, it can dissolve too..


      That's something i never noticed in cats... the ones that
      have lived 'near me' show a powerful attraction, even to the
      point of following from room to room, and remaining in
      whatever room i'm in.

      It looks like a strong attachment, not 'desire to give back'
      -- just this morning the cat was so insistent to climb into
      my lap that it resulted in spilled tea... not an uncommon
      event :-).


      When a feeling is interpreted as pleasant, it can grow to
      attachment. That even goes for breathing, when having to live
      in a highly polluted environment. The reverse happens too:
      The few times i left the island, one of the first
      observations was the unpleasant smell that appeared to be
      everywhere, not just at the airport of the destination :)
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