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12/17/01 Monday

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  • Gloria Lee
    ***************** GENE & RASHMI NDS Hello Rashmi... You asked ... Yes. Knowledge is not necessary. Beliefs can also be expectations; every expectation can be
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 18, 2001

      Hello Rashmi...

      You asked

      > > Gene
      > > Does the caterpillar know of the utter transformation?
      > > not; but in that caterpillar, lives the butterfly. The
      early form
      > > will 'die', giving everything to the later form.
      > >
      >Rashmi wrote:
      >caterpillar does not know of the utter
      transformation. does this mean
      >that we do not have to know anything to be

      Yes. Knowledge is not necessary. Beliefs can also be expectations;
      every expectation can be an obstacle.

      For most of us, it is 'too late', having been submerged in a vat
      of opinion, opinion disguised as 'fact'. Having this handicap, it is
      best to refine what knowledge we think we have, by means of
      removing expectations, which are also the root of resentment.

      I can say that it is 'better to observe, than to conclude'.

      >we are
      >already that but do not know it.

      We can know it. But it is not necessary to know it. Nor does knowing it
      convey any particular virtue.

      >so between the caterpillar and
      >butterfly- that time phase, do we have to accept our not
      >just living and accepting each moment with or without
      gratitude.it is
      >said we are timeless, so how does timelessness come into

      To abide, is to eventually let go of time.

      Generally, we incorporate time as an important part of our
      many strategies; if we abide, we are not compounding
      strategies. If we do not compound strategies, it is possible
      to release our attachment to our favorite version of time.

      >i got
      >the point when you mentioned that there was no
      difference between a
      >boy and grown up man. the boy became man on his own,
      there was just a
      >shift. so it is something natural. so naturally we shall
      >it.but we do not accept this fact. we want to be that here and

      Could it be a combination of expectation and impatience, as
      stimulated by the experience of suffering, known as frustration?

      >but also why do we have to rely on time.accepting the
      fact that
      >we shall become that in the near future is relying on time. but
      >are told that we are already that now.so why do we like
      >catterpillar just have to wait to be transformed?

      As I pointed out, the butterfly (later form) lives inside the caterpillar
      (first form). Inside of you, lives the one which you will become.

      If you 'exercise' your current form, if you use it constantly to
      meet goals which are embedded in expectation, that is the one
      you are Being. It is like, trying to drop a habit, while continuing it.

      If you allow your current form to complete its 'mission'
      with as little resistance as possible, your inner Being will
      have room to grow, and soon, you will find yourself
      Being That.

      Another way of saying, is that all of our expectations, beliefs,
      habits, frustrations, and resentments, all of our attachments,
      are the 'cocoon' which we are now so carefully encasing ourselves in.

      We think we are protecting ourselves, but our close
      attachments stifle and suffocate us.  The more we
      feel threatened (vulnerable), the more intensely
      we cling.

      The way out of the encasement of attachment, is to eat
      the web we have woven, to accept it into ourselves, and
      to learn to enjoy every bizarre bite. It is good to cultivate
      a sense of irony, as a spice to counteract the bitterness
      of the taste of our own errors.

      "Live and learn".

      >accepted if
      >tell me to wait but you say that you are that here and now. does
      >mean that there is no difference between knowing and not knowing?
      >are that and that's it.

      That is it, essentially. Please understand that our awareness
      is able to grow in ability to penetrate and "know". Rumi and Hafiz
      give examples of becoming aware of this gradual opening, which
      at some point can look like a sudden opening.

      In abiding, we do not have the pain of frustration, for
      we are not attempting to 'do'. Without the habit of
      berating ourselves, we are able to enjoy. In enjoying,
      we are able to drop our ineffectual baggage of

      The most important thing, is to have
      compassion for yourself.


      ==Gene Poole==

      JAN B.
      On 12/16/01 at 8:15 PM gaurav goel wrote:

      honourable sir,

      'everything is God' is not to be grasped intellectually. it is a state of mind which one develops in due course of time by the grace of God. one needs to love him and he fulfills with his vision. afterall, heart is the gateway to mind.



      Dear Sir,
      Whatever develops, will in its turn decline, whether a state of mind or the Indus valley
      civilization. As everything is God, that process of change form one state into another
      is God too. Hence, states of mind are as indicative as states in politics: the illusion of
      borders where there are none but when such (invisible) distinctions  are made, that is a recipe
      for suffering as also evidenced by recorded history.  "God's Grace" more than often is translated
      into "i have it my way" which  but hammers more nails  into the coffins of pain called
      "human bodies". As God is everything, drawing such borders on opinion and proclaiming
      its exclusive correctness as "God's will or vision" is another recipe for suffering which of course
      is God too (called karma) and when that is "enough",  "God's Grace"  consists of giving up reistance
      (to have things "my way") which is unconditional surrender. When sensitive (caring) and intelligent,
      that happens spontaneously in youth or even early childhood.

      Thanks Gene. i get it.

      row row row your boat
      gently down the stream
      merrily merrily merrily merrily
      life is but a dream (from the magazine i read yest. ofcourse i do
      know it)

      now one last question. if i've understood whatever you've said i
      shouldn't be asking it but i'd like to know this stuff called
      resentment or jealousy. that's the thing i'm going through...you know
      it_i do not. you can phrase your sentences better- i cannot.it haunts
      each moment_ why did he have that experience and i did not. i
      understand it all is happening but why do i feel this seperation on
      these points. if i see a beggar on the road i can feel or even
      exchange my life for his pain but certain points i cannot.i can
      exchange myself for the negative things of life but to see someone
      more superior to me_it's difficult.



      Rashmi, There are two versions of my answer to you.
      This one is the first version. I will send the second
      version later...

      If you watch a passenger train enter a tunnel,
      you probably expect that it will come out the other end
      of the tunnel.

      When we are hurt and shocked by the behaviour of
      a person with whom we are intimate, it is a special
      kind of hurt, a more intense hurt. It tends to hurt the
      heart, because we store in our heart, everything from
      our intimate friends and lovers.

      Sometimes this hurt is so bad, and the reasons for the
      hurt are so unacceptable, that we cannot fully accept
      the hurt. But what is really going on, is that the hurt
      which has come in, is not being allowed to go all the
      way through. The hurt stays in the heart, but this is
      clearly not a condition which we welcome.

      Hurt is transformed into jealousy and resentment,
      in an attempt to get it out of the heart. And the way
      that this is usually done, is to throw the hurt right back
      to the person who has hurt you.

      This is only possible if there is resentment, which
      can also be read to be 're-send-ment', or the
      'sending-back' of what is unacceptable and hurtful.

      We are taught to behave in this way, by our elders,
      most of whom have not found the ways of wisdom,
      especially the rare and valuable wisdom of the heart.

      What chance do we have, to conduct ourselves in
      a better way, than we have been taught? This is
      an important question to ask yourself.

      If we can allow the pain of the hurt to express
      directly as pain, in exactly the same way as you
      do when you painfully stub your toe, or sprain
      your ankle, you will be fine, and that will be the
      end of it. The train has come out the other end
      of the tunnel, so to speak.

      As you know, it is socially disallowed to react to
      certain kinds of hurt, as though the hurt is only
      imaginary, and you are called a fool for reacting
      to emotional pain in this way. This prohibition is
      very unhealthy to live under. I suggest that you
      allow yourself to cry and grieve, to let the pain
      you feel find an outlet, so that it does not fester
      and become ammunition with which to cause
      pain to another person, as was caused to you.

      Persons who behave foolishly, will have to find
      out in their own way, and in their own time, the
      lessons which will remedy their terrible foolishness.

      It is cautioned, to avoid trying to salvage a
      'relationship' which involves that you sacrifice
      yourself to the terrible foolishness of someone
      that you wish would love you and treat you
      more kindly.

      I think that the motto of Jesus Christ was this:

      "The bullet of resentment stops here".

      According to the stories, He did not pass his hurt
      to others. He did not approve of 'an eye for an eye',
      and instead advocated 'love others as you love

      This is of value, only if you do love yourself.

      How can you love yourself, if others do not love you?
      This is the terrible trick, used for centuries, as a
      means of controlling people. And the trick still works,
      if you allow yourself to fall for that trick.

      A better trick, is to simply love yourself. If that
      is so, you cannot be controlled or tricked by others.

      You can see, that those who foolishly hurt
      you, do not love themselves. I advise to leave
      their ranks, to love yourself and to have compassion
      for yourself. If you have compassion for yourself,
      allow yourself to pass the pain which has come
      in, to go out as well, and not to pass it to another
      person. This is a good thing. And it is one of the
      lessons that those who are very foolish, seem
      never to learn.

      Others will not be hurt, if you love yourself.


      ==Gene Poole==

      Thanks for the response, Gene.

      If anyone wants to see what's been said about resentment on this list, just
      go the jerrykatz search engine at <http://nonduality.com/search.htm> and
      enter '+resentment +highlights' and you'll find some very interesting
      responses. I think most of them are from Gene's writings! About 3000 hand
      selected emails to this list are indexed by the search engine. There are
      still about 4000 yet to be indexed.

      We can certainly put together an article on Nonduality and Jealousy. The
      search engine will allow us to easily compile the responses around a number
      of subjects. I'm not saying it's a substitute for a live response, but it's


      >  honourable sir,

      Hello om!

      > 'everything is God' is not to be grasped intellectually.

      The statement is a redundancy, utterly unnecessary.

      Nothing is grasped intellectually, not even "intellect",
         let alone "reality" ...

      >it is a
      state of mind which one develops in due course of time by the grace of

      Nothing is apart, there is no "other" to be given grace.

      States of mind are fictions based on the idea of someone
        having experiences, entering and leaving states.

      >one needs to love him and he fulfills with his vision. afterall,
      heart is the gateway to mind.

      What can be entered, can be left.

      What cannot be entered nor left, has no gate.

      > om.


      news on Maurice Sendak

      For the fans of this author, try this:

      < http://npr.org/programs/morning/features/2001/dec/nutcracker/011217.nutcracker.html>

      NPR has been doing a special on him. There is an interview to listen to, and who knows what else.

      ==Gene Poole==


      so why do we like the
      > catterpillar just have to wait to be transformed? >
      > Love
      > Rashmi
      ..............the catepillar does not just sit and wait. The
      catepillar has to work his fucking ass off to get out of that fucking
      cocoon. the difference with the catepillar is that he knows he is in
      a cocoon and knows he has to get out to survive as the butterfly.
      Humans are generally not aware of the cocoon they are in and believe
      everything to be honky-dorey, thus make no effort to get out. Once,
      however it is seen that cocoon life is our usual state and that if we
      want to be Alive as butterflies we damn well have to find a way out
      of the cocoon, then you gotta work your ass off to get out of the
      cocoon just like the butterfly. If you think the cocoon will just
      fall away all natural like, then you are doomed to life in the
      cocoon.the buterfly will never appear.

      work my fucking ass off. how the fuck is that? when i get down to
      observing someone says it could be a fucking addiction. when i stop
      and just be you say work your fucking ass. when i think of
      enlightenment someone says it's bullshit, just damn it and when i
      stop thinking of it you say the cocoon will not fall off naturally
      and i am doomed. doomed i am.


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