- ***************** SU GANDOLF see image in attachment:disposable camera#1 ... JAN SULTAN Sometimes there would be a rush of noisy visitors and the Silence ofMessage 1 of 1 , Dec 17, 2001View Source
see image in attachment:disposable camera#1JAN SULTANSometimes there would be a rush of noisy visitors
and the Silence of the monastery would be shattered.
This would upset the disciples;
not the Master, who seemed just as content
with the noise as with the Silence.
To his protesting disciples he said one day,
"Silence is not the absence of sound,
but the absence of self."
One Minute Wisdom - Anthony De Mello
Gujarat Sahitya Prakash © 1985JACKJerry,
I am is always deeply grateful for people like you and Sarlo for
the immensity of patience and love that you have offered through
your work - upside down inside out, round and around, agreeing
disagreeing, I hope you never give up - never can give up, never
did give up.
JackJACKHave you tried "changing the channel"? Try that space
between channels, the one with nothing on it... Gene
interesting view point,
the one changing the channels between nothing and everything
is the one with 'nothingeverthing' on it.
The 'channel changer' flipping to and fro between everything
The channel changer is also a channel, channelling everything
and nothing and anything in-between
after all, nothing is everything, everything manifesting as
nothing. if that not suffering then was is not?
The way i see it is, the mirror never touched the reflection, the
reflection never touched the mirror. awful amount of seperation
never ever meeting.. god never entering creation, man never
entering God, round and around, suffer we do, we that are not
God or man..
are we simply not able to honestly be suffering itself.. no buts..
jackJACK & GENENDS
You wrote, in response to my letter to you:
>Exquisite Jean,around and around in all ways,
>As always with and always and
>you're exquisite posting makes the icicleson the front gate
>twinkle in the sunlight.Glad to share...
>When I speak of suffering, I'm not talking aboutpsycholoigcal
>wounding from a traumatic past, I'm talking about thefully
>identified me disidentifying the realisation that one is thatbut
>then as that realising it is also desired me.I think I got that...
Let's see; you are saying that you are experiencing a somewhat
'painful' disjucture; that for you, these two things do not fit
together, as you have imagined or hoped that they would, or
perhaps as you believe that they 'should' fit.
It is the comparison, the seeing of the two, each so powerful
and real, which arouses your passion, which you name as
'suffering', as you realize that each is a natural feature of
reality, yet, they are incompatible; and for you, for
reasons which I can only pretend to understand, is an issue
Is it the same, as suddenly finding yourself as a 'grown man',
when only a moment before, you had been what you had
always been, a 'boy' or youth? Is it a similar nature of shock?
Is the boy now dead, and thus, to mourn? If you attend
his funeral, where is his body?
And is it the same, as when you (or someone) has prepared
an elaborate, beautiful meal, a work of art to be treasured,
and then as you are eating it, you realize that it is now gone?
The 'identified self' (what we could refer to as 'self before
realization') is like the boy or the meal; it is an intermediate
phase, or stage, which is meant to be consumed, and then
to live only as a memory. I am that one, who has the memory.
>It's like agiant ocean liner entering into a small harbour. When
>there isauthentic realness the 'me' can never accept the gigantic
>oceanliner. There is so much unconscious fear and unspoken
>secrets.We are vulnerable to what we 'harbor'.
>The source or God which is not separate from themanifestation
>wants to experience itself in every one of its forms andin
>meeting form it has to meet itself fully consciously as thatform.
Yes! And, It is doing so, in every moment, as 'everyone'.
>And as that form which is in space and time it ultimatelyfears its
>demise hence this constant never-ending suffering.The caterpillar (you know, the fuzzy little guy with 50 legs) may
fear it's own 'death', and so, it protectively wraps itself in many
lengths of silk. It does retreat into it's hiding place, for
self-preservation, but as you know, it emerges as a butterfly.
Does the caterpillar know of the utter transformation? Probably
not; but in that caterpillar, lives the butterfly. The early form
will 'die', giving everything to the later form.
It is this way with our utterly natural way of Being, as humans.
We build and protect and fear that what is good and precious
for us, will be taken (by death or loss). Only later do we come
to understand, that it is the holding-onto, the clinging, which
is the actual article of suffering. Yet, we are designed to cling,
exactly like the caterpillar is designed to weave a protective
>Joseph Campbell said it soeloquently, the whole thing is just
>sorrow in extremerapture.
Yes, I do understand better now, what you are meaning by
'suffering'. Personally, I allow myself to have the sorrow and
the rapture. I have found that both are harmless, if I can
resist the (conditioned) impulse to put meaning to those
I have deliberately removed myself from the
company of authoritarian, fundamentalist persons, whose
judgements I formerly sought. And I have purged from myself,
and continue to purge from myself, any toxic remnants of my
former associations with those 'type' of person. I can have
experience free of meaning. In that powerful emptiness,
arise meanings whose beauty and import I would have
never guessed. I suggest to remove the meaning of death.
>Gene, whatever you post whether it\s about viruses orcosmic
>consciousness, the depth and beauty of it is simplyexquisite.
>May the ocean keep onroaring.
>Thank you, Jack
Congratulations for your use of English. I understand,
that between languages, each language is felt or sensed
to be metaphorical of the other language. I say that you
are doing well, catching the actual metaphor.
==Gene Poole==GENE & RASHMINDS
>.caterpillar know of the utter transformation? Probably
> > Gene wrote:
> > Does the
> > not; but inthat caterpillar, lives the butterfly. The early form
> > will 'die',giving everything to the later form.
> >does not know of the utter transformation. does this mean
>that we do nothave to know anything to be trans-formed?
Yes. Knowledge is not necessary. Beliefs can also be expectations;
every expectation can be an obstacle.
For most of us, it is 'too late', having been submerged in a vat
of opinion, opinion disguised as 'fact'. Having this handicap, it is
best to refine what knowledge we think we have, by means of
removing expectations, which are also the root of resentment.
I can say that it is 'better to observe, than to conclude'.
>we aredo not know it.
>already that but
We can know it. But it is not necessary to know it. Nor does knowing it
convey any particular virtue.
>so between thecaterpillar and the
>butterfly- that time phase, do we have to accept ournot knowing,
>just living and accepting each moment with or withoutgratitude.it is
>said we are timeless, so how does timelessness come intothis?
To abide, is to eventually let go of time.
Generally, we incorporate time as an important part of our
many strategies; if we abide, we are not compounding
strategies. If we do not compound strategies, it is possible
to release our attachment to our favorite version of time.
>i gotdifference between a
>the point when you mentioned that there was no
>boy and grown up man. the boy became man on his own,there was just a
>shift. so it is something natural. so naturally we shallbecome
>it.but we do not accept this fact. we want to be that here andnow.
>why?Could it be a combination of expectation and impatience, as
stimulated by the experience of suffering, known as frustration?
>but also why do we have to rely on time.accepting thefact that
>we shall become that in the near future is relying on time. butwe
>are told that we are already that now.so why do we likethe
>catterpillar just have to wait to be transformed?As I pointed out, the butterfly (later form) lives inside the caterpillar
(first form). Inside of you, lives the one which you will become.
If you 'exercise' your current form, if you use it constantly to
meet goals which are embedded in expectation, that is the one
you are Being. It is like, trying to drop a habit, while continuing it.
If you allow your current form to complete its 'mission'
with as little resistance as possible, your inner Being will
have room to grow, and soon, you will find yourself
Another way of saying, is that all of our expectations, beliefs,
habits, frustrations, and resentments, all of our attachments,
are the 'cocoon' which we are now so carefully encasing ourselves in.
We think we are protecting ourselves, but our close
attachments stifle and suffocate us. The more we
feel threatened (vulnerable), the more intensely
The way out of the encasement of attachment, is to eat
the web we have woven, to accept it into ourselves, and
to learn to enjoy every bizarre bite. It is good to cultivate
a sense of irony, as a spice to counteract the bitterness
of the taste of our own errors.
"Live and learn".
>tell me to wait but you say that you are that here and now. doesit
>mean that there is no difference between knowing and not knowing?we
>are that and that's it.That is it, essentially. Please understand that our awareness
is able to grow in ability to penetrate and "know". Rumi and Hafiz
give examples of becoming aware of this gradual opening, which
at some point can look like a sudden opening.
>In abiding, we do not have the pain of frustration, for
we are not attempting to 'do'. Without the habit of
berating ourselves, we are able to enjoy. In enjoying,
we are able to drop our ineffectual baggage of
The most important thing, is to have
compassion for yourself.