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12/16/01 Sunday

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  • Gloria Lee
    ***************** SU GANDOLF see image in attachment:disposable camera#1 ... JAN SULTAN Sometimes there would be a rush of noisy visitors and the Silence of
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 17, 2001
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      *****************

      SU GANDOLF

      see image in attachment:disposable camera#1


      JAN SULTAN
       
      Sometimes there would be a rush of noisy visitors
      and the Silence of the monastery would be shattered.

      This would upset the disciples;
      not the Master, who seemed just as content
      with the noise as with the Silence.

      To his protesting disciples he said one day,
      "Silence is not the absence of sound,
      but the absence of self."

      One Minute Wisdom - Anthony De Mello
      Gujarat Sahitya Prakash © 1985

      JACK
       
      Jerry,

      I am is always deeply grateful for people like you and Sarlo for
      the immensity of patience and love that you have offered through
      your work - upside down inside out, round and around, agreeing
      disagreeing, I hope you never give up - never can give up, never
      did give up.


      Jack

       
      JACK
       
      Have you tried "changing the channel"? Try that space
      between channels, the one with nothing on it...  Gene

      interesting view point,

      the one changing the channels between nothing and everything
      is the one with 'nothingeverthing' on it.

      The 'channel changer' flipping  to and fro between  everything
      and nothing

       The channel changer is also a channel, channelling everything
      and nothing and anything in-between

      after all, nothing is  everything, everything manifesting as 
      nothing. if that not suffering then was is not?

      The way i see it is, the mirror never touched the reflection, the
      reflection never touched the mirror. awful amount of seperation

      never ever meeting..  god never entering creation,  man never
      entering God,  round and around,  suffer we do,  we that are not
      God or man..

      are we simply not able to honestly be suffering itself..  no buts..
      no if's...
      \
      jack


      JACK & GENE
       
      NDS

      Hello Jack...

      You wrote, in response to my letter to you:

      ><eichhorn2de@y...>
      wrote:

      >Exquisite Jean,
      >
      >As always with and always and
      around and around in all ways,
      >you're exquisite posting makes the icicles
      on the front gate
      >twinkle in the sunlight.

      Glad to share...

      >When I speak of suffering, I'm not talking about
      psycholoigcal
      >wounding from a traumatic past, I'm talking about the
      fully
      >identified me disidentifying the realisation that one is that
      but
      >then as that realising it is also desired me.

      I think I got that...

      Let's see; you are saying that you are experiencing a somewhat
      'painful' disjucture; that for you, these two things do not fit
      together, as you have imagined or hoped that they would, or
      perhaps as you believe that they 'should' fit.

      It is the comparison, the seeing of the two, each so powerful
      and real, which arouses your passion, which you name as
      'suffering', as you realize that each is a natural feature of
      reality, yet, they are incompatible; and for you, for
      reasons which I can only pretend to understand, is an issue
      of sadness.

      Is it the same, as suddenly finding yourself as a 'grown man',
      when only a moment before, you had been what you had
      always been, a 'boy' or youth? Is it a similar nature of shock?

      Is the boy now dead, and thus, to mourn? If you attend
      his funeral, where is his body?

      And is it the same, as when you (or someone) has prepared
      an elaborate, beautiful meal, a work of art to be treasured,
      and then as you are eating it, you realize that it is now gone?

      The 'identified self' (what we could refer to as 'self before
      realization') is like the boy or the meal; it is an intermediate
      phase, or stage, which is meant to be consumed, and then
      to live only as a memory. I am that one, who has the memory.

      >It's like a
      giant ocean liner entering into a small harbour.  When
      >there is
      authentic realness the 'me' can never accept the gigantic
      >ocean
      liner.  There is so much unconscious fear and unspoken
      >secrets.

      We are vulnerable to what we 'harbor'.

      >The source or God which is not separate from the
      manifestation
      >wants to experience itself in every one of its forms and
      in
      >meeting form it has to meet itself fully consciously as that
      form.

      Yes! And, It is doing so, in every moment, as 'everyone'.

      >And as that form which is in space and time it ultimately
      fears its
      >demise hence this constant never-ending suffering.

      The caterpillar (you know, the fuzzy little guy with 50 legs) may
      fear it's own 'death', and so, it protectively wraps itself in many
      lengths of silk. It  does retreat into it's hiding place, for
      self-preservation, but as you know, it emerges as a butterfly.

      Does the caterpillar know of the utter transformation? Probably
      not; but in that caterpillar, lives the butterfly. The early form
      will 'die', giving everything to the later form.

      It is this way with our utterly natural way of Being, as humans.
      We build and protect and fear that what is good and precious
      for us, will be taken (by death or loss). Only later do we come
      to understand, that it is the holding-onto, the clinging, which
      is the actual article of suffering. Yet, we are designed to cling,
      exactly like the caterpillar is designed to weave a protective
      cocoon.

      >Joseph Campbell said it so
      eloquently, the whole thing is just
      >sorrow in extreme
      rapture.

      Yes, I do understand better now, what you are meaning by
      'suffering'. Personally, I allow myself to have the sorrow and
      the rapture. I have found that both are harmless, if I can
      resist the (conditioned) impulse to put meaning to those
      natural events.

      I have deliberately removed myself from the
      company of authoritarian, fundamentalist persons, whose
      judgements I formerly sought. And I have purged from myself,
      and continue to purge from myself, any toxic remnants of my
      former associations with those 'type' of person. I can have
      experience free of meaning. In that powerful emptiness,
      arise meanings whose beauty and import I would have
      never guessed. I suggest to remove the meaning of death.

      >Gene, whatever you post whether it\s about viruses or
      cosmic
      >consciousness, the depth and beauty of it is simply
      exquisite.
      >May the ocean keep on
      roaring.
      >
      >
      >Jack

      Thank you, Jack

      Congratulations for your use of English. I understand,
      that between languages, each language is felt or sensed
      to be metaphorical of the other language. I say that you
      are doing well, catching the actual metaphor.


      ==Gene Poole==

      GENE & RASHMI
       
      NDS

      Hello Rashmi...

      You asked:

      ><
      href="mailto:smaryog@y">smaryog@y...> wrote:
      >.
      >.
      >
      > > Gene wrote:
      > > Does the
      caterpillar know of the utter transformation? Probably
      > > not; but in
      that caterpillar, lives the butterfly. The early form
      > > will 'die',
      giving everything to the later form.
      > >
      >
      >caterpillar
      does not know of the utter transformation. does this mean
      >that we do not
      have to know anything to be trans-formed?

      Yes. Knowledge is not necessary. Beliefs can also be expectations;
      every expectation can be an obstacle.

      For most of us, it is 'too late', having been submerged in a vat
      of opinion, opinion disguised as 'fact'. Having this handicap, it is
      best to refine what knowledge we think we have, by means of
      removing expectations, which are also the root of resentment.

      I can say that it is 'better to observe, than to conclude'.

      >we are
      >already that but
      do not know it.

      We can know it. But it is not necessary to know it. Nor does knowing it
      convey any particular virtue.

      >so between the
      caterpillar and the
      >butterfly- that time phase, do we have to accept our
      not knowing,
      >just living and accepting each moment with or without
      gratitude.it is
      >said we are timeless, so how does timelessness come into
      this?

      To abide, is to eventually let go of time.

      Generally, we incorporate time as an important part of our
      many strategies; if we abide, we are not compounding
      strategies. If we do not compound strategies, it is possible
      to release our attachment to our favorite version of time.

      >i got
      >the point when you mentioned that there was no
      difference between a
      >boy and grown up man. the boy became man on his own,
      there was just a
      >shift. so it is something natural. so naturally we shall
      become
      >it.but we do not accept this fact. we want to be that here and
      now.
      >why?

      Could it be a combination of expectation and impatience, as
      stimulated by the experience of suffering, known as frustration?

      >but also why do we have to rely on time.accepting the
      fact that
      >we shall become that in the near future is relying on time. but
      we
      >are told that we are already that now.so why do we like
      the
      >catterpillar just have to wait to be transformed?

      As I pointed out, the butterfly (later form) lives inside the caterpillar
      (first form). Inside of you, lives the one which you will become.

      If you 'exercise' your current form, if you use it constantly to
      meet goals which are embedded in expectation, that is the one
      you are Being. It is like, trying to drop a habit, while continuing it.

      If you allow your current form to complete its 'mission'
      with as little resistance as possible, your inner Being will
      have room to grow, and soon, you will find yourself
      Being That.

      Another way of saying, is that all of our expectations, beliefs,
      habits, frustrations, and resentments, all of our attachments,
      are the 'cocoon' which we are now so carefully encasing ourselves in.

      We think we are protecting ourselves, but our close
      attachments stifle and suffocate us.  The more we
      feel threatened (vulnerable), the more intensely
      we cling.

      The way out of the encasement of attachment, is to eat
      the web we have woven, to accept it into ourselves, and
      to learn to enjoy every bizarre bite. It is good to cultivate
      a sense of irony, as a spice to counteract the bitterness
      of the taste of our own errors.

      "Live and learn".

      >accepted if
      you
      >tell me to wait but you say that you are that here and now. does
      it
      >mean that there is no difference between knowing and not knowing?
      we
      >are that and that's it.

      That is it, essentially. Please understand that our awareness
      is able to grow in ability to penetrate and "know". Rumi and Hafiz
      give examples of becoming aware of this gradual opening, which
      at some point can look like a sudden opening.

      >
      >Love
      >Rashmi

      In abiding, we do not have the pain of frustration, for
      we are not attempting to 'do'. Without the habit of
      berating ourselves, we are able to enjoy. In enjoying,
      we are able to drop our ineffectual baggage of
      defense.

      The most important thing, is to have
      compassion for yourself.


      Abiding,

      ==Gene Poole==




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