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11/18/01 Sunday

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  • Gloria Lee
    **************** JACK Suggestibility? On the subject of psychotropic medicine , a subject mentioned by mark. Do any drugs really work? Psychotropic drugs
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 19, 2001
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      ****************

      JACK


      Suggestibility?

      On the subject of psychotropic "medicine", a subject mentioned
      by mark. Do any drugs really work?  Psychotropic drugs usually
      are specifically given to treat various forms of mental illness with
      in the psyche.

      In the 60's there was an experiment done by Drs. Linton and
      Langs who told test subjects they were going to participate in a
      study in the effects of LSD, but then they gave them a placebo
      instead. 

      Nonetheless, half an hour after taking the placebo, the subjects
      began to experience the classic symptoms of the actual drug,
      loss of control, supposed insight into the meaning of existence
      and so on.  These `placebo trips' lasted several hours.

      Does caffeine keep you awake at night? 

      Research has shown that even an injection of caffeine won't
      keep caffeine sensitive individuals awake if they believe they are
      receiving a sedative.

      Suggestibility is a fascinating idea.. leading into a variety of
      personal creations experienced by most as, as something
      separate from their creator. 

      S.Freud once wrote to Wilhelm Reich remarking about `the little
      Austrian man':

      "Many people here wondered how in a Midsummer's Dream
      Shakespeare could make a lady fall in love with a donkey.  And
      now just think of it, a nation of 65 million has done the same
      thing".

      It would appear of recent times we now have the new wave of
      western young spiritual teachers in most their convincing tones,
      suggesting to the easily suggestible, that there's no `I' here. The
      easily suggestible subjects enter a perfect hypnotic trance state
      nor believing and experiencing there is no `i' 

      In fact you don't even need to go this far.  If you repeat for a good
      20 minutes in a very convincing tone to yourself `there is no `I',
      you will place yourself in a trance state of believing and
      experiencing there is no `I'.

      Now what we've got is the unconscious patterns and projections
      having a field day in acting out and projecting any form of
      neurosis justified under the banner that there's no `I' doing
      anything. 

      The German chancellor in the 40's was often heard to be saying
      to close confidantes in his hideaway in southern Germany "all
      that's taking place here is providence, there is no individual `i'
      here doing anything".

      I to make matters worse Karl Pribram and David Bohm, the
      protégé of Einstein, suggest very convincingly that we're all
      existing in a holographic model.

      Might I feel  that the emotional-body held experiences of
      samadhi,  heaven,  enlightenment,  no- mind, awakening,
      feelings of at.one.ness,(mirror images of the opposites) are
      introjected projections of the unconscious into hologramlike
      projected  body imagery.

      The great non-dualist Ramana Maharshi  was heard to say...

      Owning to the `belief' " I am the body, the separate objects are
      seen as if lying outside. Know that they are all within yourself.

      I guess then  you don't have to be a  Karl Pribram,  a David
      Bohm, nor Obi-wan Kenobi to figure out that if we're not the body,
      then the body must also be in myself, along with everything else,
      including the image and its projected or introjected opposite(s).

      Carl Jung speaks of `enantiodromania' - the mirror image of the
      opposites.  He `believed' we humans are on the sacred quest to
      know `der wirklichkeit' to realise that `Ich Bin Das'...  `I am that'

      The `seen' just might be a holographic universe. Those  seen
      within the seen, including the subjective `seer' seeing others are 
      really all part of the same projected manifestation.

      jack

      BOBBY G.
       
      Hi Jack;

      > Nonetheless, half an hour after taking the placebo,
      the subjects
      > began to experience the classic symptoms of the actual
      drug,
      > loss of control, supposed insight into the meaning of existence
      > and so on.  These `placebo trips' lasted several hours.

      I have taken "trips" on bogus acid myself in the 60's and noticed
      after about an hour and a half that I would not get off.  The effects
      of LSD on normally ego tripping people is not that easily mistaken.

      [...]>
      > Suggestibility is a fascinating idea.. leading into a variety of
      > personal creations experienced by most as, as something
      >
      separate from their creator.

      I agree.  The basis of hypnosis, suggestibility, is the same as
      learning.  If you believe you can't learn something you can't, and
      vice versa.  It is impossible to "learn" something that disagrees
      with something you already believe is true.  You must be willing to
      doubt the old to see the new.
       
      [...]
      > I to make matters worse Karl Pribram and David Bohm, the
      >
      protégé of Einstein, suggest very convincingly that we're all
      > existing
      in a holographic model.
      >
      > Might I feel  that the
      emotional-body held experiences of
      > samadhi,  heaven, 
      enlightenment,  no- mind, awakening,
      > feelings of
      at.one.ness,(mirror images of the opposites) are
      > introjected
      projections of the unconscious into hologramlike
      > projected  body
      imagery.

      The "I am" is an illusion. 
      Names and forms projected on the mind forming a rational whole is an
      illusion.  When this illusion disappears in deep sleep everything
      remains the same escept the illusion is no longer being created.

      The rational mind posits an objective universe that continues to
      exist while the body sleeps but that universe is like the snake in
      the example of illusion wherein the rope is mistaken for a snake.

      If you see a snake that turns out to be a rope you reacted just as if
      the snake were real.  For all practical or "objective" purposes it
      was real just as the "I am" and the world is real. 
      The No fear, no boundaries state of Samadhi is veiled by the
      projection you describe.

      [...]
      > The `seen' just might be a holographic universe. Those  seen
      > within the seen, including the subjective `seer' seeing others
      are 
      > really all part of the same projected
      manifestation.

      Duality is the idea of the seer seeing itself.  This posits two
      things existing simultaneously, one seeing the other. Although this
      seems to be the case, Reason tells us this is impossible.  Once that
      idea is released or doubted  the truth may dawn.
       
      I offer this as my personal explanation of the issues you brought. 
      I am not clear on whether or not you are supportive of non-dualism.

      Yours truly
      Bobby G.

       

       
      ED
       
      When the inner smile appears, one is at the top of the mountain 
      radiating unconditional love. 
      
      http://members.tripod.com/~chippit/inner_smile.html

      JACK
      The only thing that I have ever understood that reaches the top of 
      any mountain is the ego.


      Ego eternally presumes it is self-enlightened.  It invents
      mountains then identifies itself as a mountain climber.  It's also
      discovered ways to fall off mountains.


      Some have said that mountains, mountain climbing, the
      mountain climber, the idea of attaining and falling, are all in you.

      Is that what you mean by a mountain smile?



      ED
      > Is that what you mean by a mountain smile?


      No, not really.  It becomes clear when the ego is doing its
      survival work and the Inner Smile appears. 

      <s>

      ANDREW
       
      imagine!
      Differentiating, something makes itself out of nothing
      yet all the while remains no more or less than nothing.

      Undisclosed remains undisclosed, what is undisclosed?

      andrew

      MARK
       
      yeah, is the word "undisclosed" a double-negative or a triple-negative?
      I've heard of redundant phrases, but redundant words? sheesh

      Love, Mark
      oh, I see.  I've been separating the syllables incorrectly.  I read it
      as un-dis-closed, but it's clearly un-disc-losed, meaning that CD that
      I've been looking for for ages finally showed up. Thanks.



       














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