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Thursday, November 15

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  • Jerry Katz
    RASHMI: Can we be aware while asleep? Even in deep sleep? GREG GOODE: If the answer were NO, could you formulate the question? If the answer were NO, then are
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 17, 2001
      Can we be aware while asleep? Even in deep

      If the answer were NO, could you formulate the
      question? If the answer were NO, then are you sure
      you wake up as the same one who went into deep

      Great post here. Generally you are fairly correct
      in what you say. At the last you go a bit off-base.
      There is an implication of a somebody doing a

      I'll tell you what enlightenement is - it's tricky
      - that's what it is. Sure there are those folk who
      have some visions, hear a really moving satsang, or
      finally beging to get a 'feel' for enlightenment.
      And, they sometimes think they have arrived - so
      they start teaching.

      Sure, and it was the same in the time of Jesus,
      Buddha, and so on. It is the same in this time.
      And, so what of it?

      Do you have any idea of how ironic it is being
      enlightened? HAHAHAH and HOHOHO! There is god all
      over the place trying to find god. Looking but not
      yet seeing. What a drama!

      I would start a satsang but, there isn;t much money
      in it from what I've seen. There used to be and
      there are still folk charging stiff fees for
      workshops and intensives. But, that seems like such
      a bother.

      You see, I do not want anybodys money, cars,
      houses, cameras, etc. Nor, do I want to have sex
      with them, their kids, or their animals. And I sure
      as rain do not want people pranaming and weeping
      and getting all mushy just because two words come
      out of my mouth.

      Now, as to the so-called levels of enlightenment -
      hogwash dear Friend, pure hogwash. That is, as long
      as there is a thought of someone attaining
      something or losing something. There is an
      awakening event, yes. After that things just take
      care of themselves.

      Like I said - it is tricky. What or who gets
      enlightened? Careful now, trick question here! Does
      the character being played become enlightened? If
      so, what is the meaning of all there is - is god?
      Does god, who is playing all these characters,
      simply rewrite the script and set the stage for the
      character or itself? Hmmm...

      Ah HAHAHAH who wakes up? The character or the
      'thing' playing the character? Oh, how I hope this
      boggles the shit out of you! HOHOHO!

      loveya - at play and looking for pie! - michael

      ps now just look at this - way out in left field -
      ah, so. grin

      The difference between rem-sleep and no sleep is
      marginal: a series of ongoing events is being
      observed. Falling in deep dreamless sleep,
      observing and the events simultaneously "dissolve"
      in awareness. With some practice, it is possible to
      be fully aware during rem-sleep (lucid dreaming)
      but deep dreamless sleep is "just" peace which
      continues. It is possible to notice that as the
      mind-body is switched off which when K. awakened
      can cause some strange side-effects and when
      noticing that, the emerging state of deep sleep
      ends with a flash and there is remembrance of what
      was going on.

      What are the steps to learn how to do this?

      To be aware that the events, when not asleep, are in no way different from
      the events when asleep: the recognition that there is no "control" or "will",
      just currents of thoughts judging and interpreting these ongoing events. Then the notion
      can arise to be dreaming while awake and to be awake while dreaming.
      The common denominator, witnessing.




      secret of atom - forces to mate
      secret of the universe - erotic fever enthuses
      secret of apes - forest's peace
      secret of man - face monster
      secret affair - if fast career
      secret of names - meanest forces
      secret of friendship - deft response if rich
      secret of business - finest bosses cure
      secret of happiness - eh! perfect passions
      secret of love - coolest fever
      transmutation secret - a smarter constituent
      secret of nature - refer to nutcase
      secret untold - couldn't reset
      secret unheard - under cheaters
      photon's secret - coherent stops
      devil's secret - vilest creeds
      God's secret - greed costs
      secrets of peace - perfect so cease



      The Dangers of Pseudo-advaita by: Aziz

      We would like to express our concern regarding the
      recent phenomenon of 'satsang-culture' which in our
      opinion has impoverished seriously the Orignial
      Spirit of Advaita. These days many individuals, who
      have very little or no knowledge at all about the
      Process of Awakening, feel qualified to give
      satsang and lead other souls on the Path.
      Enlightenment has become very cheep these days.
      Nobody actually really knows what is the meaning of
      this term as it virtually means everything and
      nothing. Nowadays, it is sufficient to say 'I am
      awakened' in order to give satsang.

      Because of the unverifiable nature of
      Enlightenment, this term has been much manipulated.
      Satsang has been Americanised. In an average
      satsang-gathering everybody is laughing, showing
      signs of euphoric and unauthentic joy, while the
      teacher tries to look like he or she is in a bliss.
      Just like a TV show. Very few actually meditate.
      Why to meditate if we are already all awakened? But
      Is this really Advaita? Is Advaita a poor
      repetition of a several slogans like 'There is
      nobody there,' 'You are That,' You are already
      awakened' or 'There is no Path', etc.? Has this
      anything to do with teaching of great masters like
      N. Maharaj or R. Maharishi? Ramana sat in caves for
      20 years before he could be really complete. In his
      presence disciples had to meditate for months and
      years before they could receive from him the
      glimpse of the Self. It is true that New Millennium
      is a time of global awakening. But this awakening
      is mostly partial and relative to the level of most
      people's unconsciousness. It was Jesus who said
      that there would be a time when many false teachers
      will teach in the name of Light. It seems to be
      happening now. Many of these teachers are not
      necessarily 'bad people' but simply unqualified and
      lost, in truth. They have believed too quickly in
      the thought 'I am now ready to teach!' It seems
      that the pauperisation of satsang culture began
      after the death of Poonjaji. Many of his followers
      started to claim that Poonjaji approved their
      'awakening.' It seems that they just took him too
      literally. It is an Advaita custom to say 'you are
      already awakened.' This is however more a teaching
      device than a reflection of reality. And even if
      some of his disciples had a glimpse of awakening,
      Poonjaji knew very well that in most cases neither
      it was permanent nor the final state. An example
      was Andrew Cohen who was sent to give satsang in
      the west. He was meant to represent Poonjaji and
      attract more westerners to Lucknow. But he and
      others thought that Poonjaji actually conformed his
      Enlightenment. For that reason, Cohen became very
      hurt when Poonjaji started to criticize him when he
      began to act as a master. From this wound came
      later the magazine 'What is Enlightenment?' which
      more represents Cohen's own insecurity and an
      unsuccessful attempt to heal himself than a genuine
      search for clarity. By the endless investigation
      into states of all possible masters, and not being
      able to come to any true conclusion, he has been
      just confusing his students. The only thing which
      at the end remains clear from his seemingly
      'sincere' efforts to find clarity is that nobody
      has the least idea 'What Enlightenment Is!' It is
      not our intention to suggest that nobody reaches
      Enlightenment. We just wish to make it clear that
      Complete Enlightenment and Understanding of its
      nature is still an extremely rare phenomenon on the
      planet earth, which a plane of low evolution. And
      equally important, we wish to emphasize that a
      partial or pre-mature experience of awakening does
      not qualify one at all to take a role of a
      Self-realised being. Enlightenment is not as cheep.
      Many seekers seem to be unaware of a very simple
      fact that there are actually many levels of
      Self-realisation. There is an enormous difference
      between initial awakening and the actual State of
      Enlightenment. But who cares? Most seekers would
      not bother to study these matters, for in their
      case there is really 'nobody there' - just a
      collective seeker's mind. And most teachers would
      refuse to enquire into the true nature of
      Enlightenment because they already have a hidden
      doubt and deep fear concerning the validity of
      their own attainment. We would like to suggest not
      to rush too fast with announcing oneself
      'awakened,' and to rush even less with the idea of
      giving satsang. In Zen tradition one had to wait 10
      to 20 years after Enlightenment before one could
      guide others. These days we hear about individuals
      who give satsang the next day after their uncertain

      We would like to clarify, for the sake of general
      knowledge, that there are actually several levels
      of expansion beyond the mind. There are three basic
      types of Inner Expansion: 1) Awakening to Pure
      Awareness (the State of Presence behind the mind).
      2) Awakening to the Absolute State (unity with the
      unmanifested). 3) Awakening of the Heart (expansion
      into the Divine). In each of these levels there are
      three stages: Shift into a state, Stabilisation and
      Integration. For instance, many satsang-teachers do
      not experience the same state outside of teaching.
      This is because they are not established
      permanently in the state they have attained. For
      that reason, they can have a deep state during
      satasng, but when they leave the satsang-room, they
      return back to ordinary consciousness. In such a
      case only conscious cultivation of the particular
      state can allow one to establish it permanently.
      However, if one does not believe in actual process
      of awakening, how can one consciously cultivate
      anything? One does not even know that one is in a
      State. Here we see the importance of correct
      understanding. If one just follows in a dogmatic
      and unimaginative way the Advaita idea that 'I am
      already That,' how can one cultivate anything? We
      recommend to all students and teachers of Advaita
      to be more critical. Follow Advaita, if you wish
      but know that Reality is simply much more rich than
      any linear philosophy, with Advaita included. The
      Practical Advaita and the Theoretical Advaita are
      very different. In the Theoretical Advaita, the
      Self is the only reality, there is no Path and we
      are all already awakened. But Practical Advaita
      knows that there is a long way to go before the
      truth of these statements can become our living
      truth. We would like also to create a few practical
      anti-pseudo-advaita statements: 'You are not
      awakened unless you awaken!' 'You are not That,
      unless you reach unity with Universal I AM!' 'There
      is no Path but only for those who Completed it!'
      'There is nobody here, but only when somebody has
      dissolved! Until that time you are simply a
      suffering somebody who only tries to believe in
      being no one or entertains oneself by giving

      We have request to all those who experience any
      type of awakening: PLEASE, THINK TWICE BEFORE YOU
      TEACH. Perhaps giving Satsang is not really

      Blessings to Seekers of Truth and Clarity who have
      the courage to renounce the False


      If you have food, give it. It doesn't need the
      hands of a world class chef on it. Anyone who has
      the food and can somehow prepare it, will do, and
      there are many. It should be peddled cheaply in the
      streets like trucks in Nova Scotia that sell fish
      and chips, or those weary lunch trucks in Los
      Angeles that sell the best soft tacos you ever had
      because they are absolutely authentic and made and
      sold by working hands of beautiful people.

      Don't get me wrong. I'm the first one to make fun
      of the Poonjaji crowd. But I never said they
      shouldn't be out there doing their thing. I'm just
      poking fun. Hopefully they're poking fun at us.

      While there's truth to what's stated below, there's
      also pettiness and exclusivity. However, there are
      people who need that, just like there are some
      people who refuse to eat in anything but the most
      exclusive restaurants. Nothing wrong with it.

      Hey, I know a rich guy who was asked about his
      dining experience at a new exclusive restaurant. He
      said, 'The food wasn't very good, but at least it
      was expensive.' And so it goes for spirituality

      Who deserves to be an "authority"? Why not look at
      our need for such an authority in the first place?
      It's been pointed out countless times: Christ was
      not a Christian, Buddha was not a Buddhist, etc.
      And Self-realization is not Advaitan (except
      through the cutom of language). But this stuff is
      inevitable once there is a lineage, a religion. We
      don't want just anyone to call herself a teacher,
      we want to get our money's worth, but oh how the
      mighty fall. It's interesting to think about.
      Imperfect forms, but we love them just the same, we
      are attached to them. I attend a traditional
      Japanese Karate school, and I struggle with the
      idea of a hierarchy there sometimes. But one
      wonderful thing, within this imperfect form, is the
      fact that everyone who has reached a particular
      rank is called a teacher. It's not about the
      individual, or even the individual's skill. If
      you've dedicated yourself and done your time, you
      are a teacher. There's something nice about the
      equality of that, and the idea that everyone has
      something to offer. Whether you teach formally is
      another matter. Of course there are about six
      levels of teacher/master, but I'll leave that for
      another day...





      That's a tough one, to be sure.

      I never offered 'satsang', but I sure saw myself as
      a teacher....well, more like a 'healer', I guess
      you'd say.

      When I started looking at those motives about 3
      years ago, it was a real kick in the pants.....

      I found that my motives to help people, and to be a

      were not anywhere near as 'pure' as I would have
      liked to imagine.

      I began seeing that whenever someone 'got'
      something from me, there was such a 'hit'....a

      a feeling of being worthwhile... a feeling of being

      Boy, how I loved it!

      But at one point in my hypnotherapy practice (and
      being part of a very intimate healing circle)

      I started asking myself questions:

      Would I do this for free? "Yes." (And often I did.)

      Would I do this if instead of a 'good feeling', I
      received a slap in the face as sole reward for my
      efforts? With not even a 'thank you', or show of
      gratitude, or 'howdy do'? My answer felt like a
      kick in the stomach. My answer was, "no". I didn't
      require money, but I did require peoples' gratitude
      and admiration.

      Within weeks thereafter my career of being a
      'healer' ended when I made the most surprising
      decision (to me as well as others!) to relocate.

      I thought at the time that I would continue my
      'work' in this new area, but the inclination has
      never again arisen.

      Which is not surprising. The 'dust' that began
      stirring thereafter ('K' dust, I like to call it)
      totally redirected my focus, and rendered me
      virtually 'worthless' to others.

      And for someone like me, that's a tough pill to



      Who cares if somebody is enlightened or not.
      Sometimes even a little kid can give you a great
      idea or cause you to see something which was right
      in front of your eyes.

      Also I don't see the desperate need for
      enlightenment. Just being on the path is good
      enough for me. It has given me gifts that I never
      imagined existed. I feel like what Hafiz is saying


      There are so many gifts
      Still unopened from your birthday,
      There are so many hand-crafted presents
      That have been sent to you by God.

      The Beloved does not mind repeating,
      "Everything I have is also yours."

      Please forgive Hafiz and the Friend
      If we break into a sweet laughter
      When your heart complains of being thirsty
      When ages ago .. Every cell in your soul
      Capsized forever
      Into this infinite golden sea.

      A lover's pain is like holding one's breath … Too long
      In the middle of a vital performance,

      In the middle of one of Creation's favorite … Songs.

      Indeed, a lover's pain in this sleeping,
      This sleeping,
      When God just rolled over and gave you
      Such a big good-morning kiss!

      There are so many gifts, my dear,
      Still unopened from your birthday.

      O, there are so many hand-crafted presents
      That have been sent to your life
       From God.
      ("The Gift"  vers D. Ladinsky)


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