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11/13/01 Tuesday

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  • Gloria Lee
    ***************** ANDREW What kind of theology has god willing your slavery? In thinking to serve the divine there is the assumption that you and the divine
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 15, 2001
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      What kind of theology has god willing your slavery?
      In thinking to serve the divine there is the assumption
      that you and the divine are separate entities.
      Even seeing it this way, the relationship
      with god is not one of slavery; you
      are god's beloved child, god is
      devoted to you as you are to god.
      It's god's will that you be free.

      > What kind of theology has god willing your slavery?

      .......its not that god wills anything one way or the other, as the
      will of  god is simply the intelligent, evolutionary movement of all
      creation. But  yes the language is dualistic, theistic.

      > In thinking to serve the
      divine there is the assumption
      > that you and the divine are separate

      .........to serve the divine is to be in alignment with that
      movement.As we usually are, living  the illusion of separation, there
      can be no such alignment. Awakening, is taking resposibility for,
      living as, already present enlightenment. And that is slavery not
      freedom. If most people really saw what it meant to wake up, they
      would run away from it as fast as possible.

      Run where? There's nothing you can do to prevent it.
      Everybody dies. One time only. It isn't slavery because the slave is dead. It is
      freedom because the slave is dead.

      Hi Ron,

      I've done a little wookworking and know what you mean.

      The first thing that comes to mind is that the feeling is one of being included
      in nature.

      I imagine that applies to any kind of 'working with the hands', especially if
      most of one's time is removed from nature.


      Hello good people,

      I am writing a lecture/presentation to give to groups in my area as a
      marketing tool to build my hypnotherapy practice and I was wondering
      if I could have some input from all you gentle and insightful people.

      It is called:

      Feeling Safe in an Unsafe World: Comforting Your Child in Times of

      I am also creating one for the adults called:

      Feeling Safe in an Unsafe World: Comforting Yourself in Times of

      I have a small problem in that I have no children nor do I have much
      contact with them.

      If those of you who have children or have ever been children can
      share how your parents comforted you in frightening situations I
      would deeply appreciate it. Also if you have any techniques that you
      have used for reducing anxiety that would easily transfer to the
      general populace that would be wonderful too.

      With gratitude,

      Child comfort

      I was a single parent from the time my children were 2 and 4.  Two
      boys now 27 and 25.  I never had a job during that time so I was a
      hands-on Dad.  It was and is a privilege.

      I did artwork for literally hundreds of families with small
      children.  They are my favorite people to draw.

      Comforting a child has directly to do with the parents.  Some are
      permissive and some restrictive.

      The biggest problem I believe, about being a child is learning how to
      stop being here now.  That is the objective every "well adjusted"
      child must learn.  They must learn to be somebody doing something or
      thinking something.  Then as non-dualists we have to unlearn it. 
      Does anyone believe we would not have to unlearn it if we had not
      learned it?

      The child must believe s/he is here as an individual reacting to
      others.  This is drilled into a child. 

      If it had not been drilled into the child then there would be no-one
      to have night sweats and feel unsafe and no need for people to know
      how to make "their" "child" feel safe.  The youngun would only feel
      unsafe in the presence of immanent danger.

      If we must teach them to be "people" then we owe at least one thing
      to them.  Never let a child feel invisible.  If they send out a
      message respond to it.  Even just a twitch of the eyebrow and eye
      contact with a smile is enough.  They will catch it.

      My pet peeve with parents is when they make the child beg to be
      noticed.  When my boys wanted my attention they knew that one "Dad"
      or a tug on the pants leg was sufficient.  I always turned to them
      within a few seconds and they knew I would.

      Children feel like they are not there more than adults.  They just
      haven't got it fully yet.  If you let them feel invisible, they worry
      about being the only one that is not here at all.  How frightening is
      that? Can you do it?

      I believe that is the way to make a child feel safe, always respond.

      Yours truly
      Bobby G.

      MARK O.
      Hi Susan,

      I didn't respond to your post right away because I do not have children,
      but after seeing some of the responses, I'm inclined to suggest that a
      useful thing to do to provide comfort to children and to other living
      things is to communicate with them in a way that one listens at least as
      much as one talks.  I've been listening awhile to folks in academia
      theorize about how to teach college students, while it seems to me that
      the one thing they are not doing is paying attention to the students.
      My approach to teaching is to ask the students what they know and
      understand so I know where my help is needed, and then to ask them for
      continual guidance as I apply that help.  That approach didn't help me
      obtain grant money, so I no longer teach. Oh well. I may have little to
      contribute to your talk because I think there are no prescriptions.
      Each situation is unique and requires a new approach based on the
      situation at hand.  Nonetheless, a good rule of thumb appears to be to
      pay attention to your audience.

      Well, enjoy your presentation.

      Love, Mark

      I felt for you when you said:

      >My approach to teaching is to ask
      the students what they know and
      >understand so I know where my help is
      needed, and then to ask them for
      >continual guidance as I apply that
      help.  That approach didn't help me
      >obtain grant money, so I no
      longer teach. Oh well. I may have little to

      I had the pleasure of meeting you

      , and can imagine that you would teach with patience, compassion, and
      humor, inspiring the students to learn the subject matter.

      At the University of Rochester, they are very tough in the tenure-decision
      process.  It has partly to do with the school's academic inferiority
      complex (lots of Ivy League wannabees there).  During my time at Rochester,
      1979-91, there were several notable cases of great teachers not getting
      tenure.  In the humanities especially.  Some of the most popular, inspiring
      and beloved teachers happened not to publish enough to get tenure.  The
      most memorable case was a blind teacher who taught Shakespeare, and helped
      out with the drama department.  It's tough to make Shakespeare appealing to
      modern kids, but he did it.  The kids loved him, and inherited his love of
      Shakespeare.  But he didn't publish enough.  When the students found out he
      had to leave the University, they demonstrated, picketed, etc.  As you
      might expect, it had absolutely no effect, and the school lost him, as well
      as some other great teachers.

      On the other hand there were plenty of dweeby profs there who were
      incomprehensible to the students.  But they could crank out research papers
      and the required book, so made tenure.  And you get to keep tenure as long
      as you're not found guilty of murder...

      Your school's loss is NDS's gain!  I'm glad you're here.  Your warmth and
      good writing make me smile whenever I read your posts!



      An interesting read is Osho's book "Glimpses of a Golden
      Childhood".   Osho tells of being raised by a grandmother
      who was quite 'abiding'.  She never once said "no" to
      Osho, and forbid anyone else to. 

      He had a fulltime 'body guard' whose job was
      to follow him around.  His instructions were to
      not interfere with Osho's movements and actions
      in anyway......only to intervene if Osho's life was
      at risk, or to bring him home if his body needed

      I remember a story he told of the time his grandfather's
      guru, a jaina monk, came to visit.    His grandfather was
      scared to death of what Osho would say in his presence,
      and for the first time ever, asked Osho to "keep quiet"
      in his presense.   His grandmother responded, "Nonsense!
      Let the boy do as he will".  And Osho, at the age of 5,
      did.  Within minutes of the monk's arrival his grandfather was
      holding his head in shame while his grandmother was laughing with
      delight.     Before the visit was over, the 'guru' had become
      so angry he was spitting nails.....his 'peace' totally undone
      by the questions of a 5 year old who had not yet been
      taught to fear.  

      MARK H.
      Blue Dove says they have Krishna Menon's books Atma Darshan and Atma
      Nirvritti in stock: $9 each plus shipping.  I haven't received them yet, but
      I ordered them on line yesterday and got a confirmation e-mail today.  They
      have some other books by him also.  Go to www.bluedove.org and click on
      Light of Grace Books to see the catalog.

      I am crossing my fingers on this, because last time I tried to order I was
      told the publisher was out of stock.  Blue Dove is just distributing these
      books for a small publisher who publishes small runs of these books
      infrequently because of lack of funds, lack of demand, or both.  Maybe if we
      flood them with orders it will encourage them to crank up their press.

      Atmananda (Krishna Menon) was a sage from South India who passed away in
      1958.  Jean Klein visited him a few times after his own realization.
      Atmananda was not his guru, but Jean appears to have been very influenced by
      his teaching style.  Jean said in an interview in Transmission of the Flame:
      "I saw Krishna Menon four or five times later on, and found him highly able
      in *vidya vritti*, the formulation of what cannot be formulated.
      Absolutely a beautiful being."

      There was an opportunity to explore safety and security issues on
      another list today where I did not post my request for input. One of
      the things I posted in response to that little thread was this quote
      from Helen Keller, the author who was born and lived her life blind
      and deaf.
      Security is mostly a superstition.
      It does not exist in nature,
      nor do the children of men as a whole experience it.
      Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run
      than outright exposure.
      Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing.
      To keep our faces toward change and
      behave like free spirits
      in the presence of fate is strength undefeatable.

      by Helen Keller
      Let Us Have Faith (1940)

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