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11/11/01 Sunday

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  • Gloria Lee
    **************** NETSUFI True prayer and love are learned in the hour when prayer becomes impossible and the heart is turned to stone. Thomas Merton ~~~~~~~ My
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 12, 2001
      True prayer and love are learned in the hour when prayer becomes
      impossible and the heart is turned to stone.

      Thomas Merton

      My teacher, Achaan Chah used to wander around the monastery at times and
      talk to people and just say, "Are you suffering much today?" And if you
      said, "Yes," he said, "Oh, you must be quite attached," and kind of giggle
      and go along.  There wasn't much more to say.  You come to see that you
      don't own this body because it changes by itself, that you rent this house;
      you get it for a little while, and you can honor it and feed it and walk
      it, and jog it if you want, but it's not yours to possess. You can begin to
      see, in fact, that none of these things are possessible because the nature
      of life is nonpossession. You're an accountant in the firm -- you get to
      count it for awhile and that's all.

      Jack Kornfield

           All religious and spiritual differences
           melt away the nearer you get to God.
                               Net Sufi

      1.The self is beyond all concept, all projection. It is why we cannot
      steer ourselves to it under our own steam and must wait for it to
      solicit us. But when it invites us, we must say yes joyfully, without
      hesitation. The decision belongs to us, the only decision in which we
      truly have a free choice.- Francis Lucille
      2.Ramana Maharshi told a questioner that all actions are determined
      except the ability to inquire into one's true nature.-Greg Goode

      3.For a nondualist, who sustains that everything appears in
      Consciousness, and that there is only that One Consciousness, there
      is no such thing as free will, because all individual body-minds are
      not real entities, but mere appearances without substance. Where
      there is no real doer, there cannot be a free will.- Miguel-Angel

      The first two statements contradict the third to my understanding.
      So, really do we have a free choice on that one decision but if there
      is no doer how is that so?



      Ramana and Lucille are saying that the only real relationship is with the
      Absolute. Any relationship short of that is not real, so how can there be
      free will?

      Miguel-Angel's One Consciousness is not the same as Lucille's or Ramana's
      Absolute. In other words, Miguel-Angel is coming from a different level of
      understanding. There's no contradiction. The two kinds of statements are
      consistent to the points of view taken.

      By the way, I'm not criticizing Miguel-Angel, and I don't know if he said
      those words or whether he quoted them, and I don't know their context. I'm
      simply responding to what you've delivered.

      Your question: "So, really do we have a free choice on that one decision but
      if there is no doer how is that so?"

      The relationship with the Absolute, or with Grace, is free. The decision is
      always to accept the invitation. That is done in freedom. The invitation is
      your acceptance. That is done in freedom. Lucille says we must accept
      joyfully and without hesitation.

      This takes us back to what Nisargadatta said, that I quoted the other day:
      "The very meeting a Guru is the assurance of liberation."

      The Guru is Grace. The relationship with a Guru is a free one. You have free
      will only in your relationship with the Guru or Grace. In that relationship
      there is always acceptance. Now here there appears to be a real
      contradiction. Does free will mean the freedom to choose one direction or
      another? Or does it mean to be aligned with nondual reality in which there
      are no directions from which to choose?


              Hi Rashmi,

              When there is joy, harmony, peace, Love... the question of
      Free Choice does not arise.
              So if the question arises - the question is the answer - in
      other words, the question is the ego, the I-entity, which is the
              The I-entity is solely interested in its own survival and one
      of its favorite ruses is to ask noble sounding questions that ensure
      its continuity.


      There is something about woodworking that draws the soul to the surface.
      Not being enlightened, I can be of may thoughts and moods.   Upon spending
      just a few minutes in my woodworking shop I enter a meditative state of
      peace and focused awareness.  It is lovely.

      Beginner Woodworker,



          Hi Ron,

          Yes. I express this in the following way (thanks to Jean Klein).

          Words cannot describe the ultimate. Words are symbols to point us
      to what in reality cannot be talked about. I feel that it is
      tremendously important to hear words in this way. To not hang onto the
      language, to not try to fix it in the frame of knowledge.

         If one allows what is behind the words to flower; then you come to
      the understanding, and in this understanding there is a glimpse of
      'being' the understanding.

          The poetic use of words is only to come to the understanding with
      the right representation, the right geometric pattern. It is here that
      there is a glimpse of reality. And then this representation, this
      understanding which is still a formulation (the witness), completely
      dissolves in 'being the understanding', and there is nothing more to

          Then there is listening, non-intentional listening, listening
      where there is no listener and nothing to listen to, no anticipation
      and free from all expectation - innocent attention, innocent listening
      - then there is a transmission which is beyond words.

          In Being Listening, intelligent action comes from the situation
      itself. There is no doer and everything gets done - harmoniously.


      JAN B.
      The witness isn't involved - untouched, unmovable, passive.
      Involvement like in arts implies forgetfulness - only the
      'act of art' remains. And of course there is no boundary -
      the witness is always "behind the scene" as indicated by the
      recursion, witnessing the witnessing of witnessing (ad infinitum)...
      Such recursion always indicates "something ungraspable"
      for the mind. When there is equanimity, peace, what remains to


      Dear Jan and James

      I am crying.



      I've added three new definitions of nonduality to my growing collection,
      which began when I couldn't find a definition of nonduality in any
      dictionary in the reference section of the city library.

      Two of the definitions are challenging. They are from David R. Hawkins
      and Adi Da. A third is from Justin Stone, a renowned teacher of Tai Chi
      Chih. I first heard about him from one of his students in the early

      Please go to the home page where you will see the links.

      Thank you. You may also submit your own definition of nonduality. I'm
      always looking to add to the collection.

      Jerry Katz


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