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Friday, November 2

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  • Jerry Katz
    We ve put together some of Joseph Riley s contributions to the Hafiz list (which Gloria has sent to other lists), and made a little slide show, I guess you d
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 4, 2001
      We've put together some of Joseph Riley's
      contributions to the Hafiz list (which Gloria has
      sent to other lists), and made a little slide show,
      I guess you'd call it. It's at



      BOBBY G.

      As you probably know, your Question "Where is the
      border-line between compassionate acceptance and
      voluntarily exposing oneself to psychic abuse, to
      the point of psycho-somatic dis-ease, in the name
      of compassion ?" is unanswerable. You want to know
      when it is objectively acceptable to break off a
      destructive relationship. It is a purely subjective
      situation. You also seem to be saying that your
      composure is suffering and that makes it reasonable
      to break it off. This may have to do with
      'spiritual growth'. You don't feel it is right for
      her to impede your growth.

      I personally believe that loving someone must
      always grant them the freedom to exhibit a tendency
      without labeling them because of it. I mean acting
      a certain way does not mean you are that way. It is
      just a tendency which may change. You don't love
      the tendency, you love the person. And vice-versa.
      If you can't do that or she can't do that now you
      may be able to later. Who knows?

      I broke off a relationship with a sweet but
      irrational woman I had been seeing for a long time.
      In order to 'convince me to come back' she felt
      truthfullness would help. She confessed her
      infidelities. It did not help.

      The bigger picture which I believe relates to
      non-dualism is the fact that I objectified all
      women. It was something I had to realize before I
      could grow. People can not be objects. People will
      spontaneously change in an instant and no longer
      act the same way. Therefore to act like they are a
      thing is inaccurate.

      The real problem is the tendency to objectify one's
      own self.



      quoting Wayne Liquorman:

      From the standpoint of the ultimate understanding
      that all there is, is Consciousness, then all of
      the mechanisms, all of the appearances in
      Consciousness in the manifestation, all of the so
      called individuals are simply arisings in
      Consciousness. They are expressions of
      Consciousness. So in visual terms, imagine
      Consciousness as a big ball of clay out of which
      are pulled these various organisms so that they are
      never separate, they never come apart from this
      ball of clay, because the ball of clay is all there
      is. It is a oneness.

      Yet arising out of this are all of these body-mind
      mechanisms that are given names such as Bill or
      Karen or Abdul. When they arise we say they are
      born. The reason this image is useful is that the
      connection between that which is born and the
      Consciousness from which it arises is visually in
      tact. In the world there is the appearance of all
      of these separate entities walking around. Their
      connection to the Source is not readily seen.

      When it is understood that there is this underlying
      connection to everything-that everything springs
      forth from this Oneness and is only an aspect of
      the Oneness- then it is seen that each of these
      forms is a temporary arising through which various
      events happen, experiences happen, emotions arise,
      thoughts arise, and memories are contained. At the
      end of its span death happens, what we call death,
      which is the returning of all of these elements
      back into the Source.

      It is the falling of the arising so that all of the
      component elements "return" to the Source from
      which they have never left in the first place. They
      are no longer differentiated in any way. All of
      these thoughts, experiences, memories, all of these
      characteristics go back into this pool of
      undifferentiated Consciousness.

      The important thing to realize is that the clay
      figures that are extruded out of the whole are
      never separate. They may appear to be separate, but
      that is only because you can't always see the
      tendril of connection back to the Oneness. Nothing
      can be separate from the Oneness, then it would be

      Matter, as the physicists say, is neither created
      nor destroyed. There is this Oneness and there is a
      continual arising of new body-mind mechanisms. If
      in one of these body-minds there is a sense of
      personal doership, then it will think that any
      thought that arises in it is its own. It may be a
      "new" thought or one that was thought by another
      body-mind mechanism five hundred years ago. It may
      be the memory of an experience experienced in a
      previous body-mind mechanism. But if there is a
      sense of personal doership there, the organism will
      consider that thought, or that experience, or that
      memory to be its own and will say "I" experienced
      that, that was "my" previous birth, that was "my"
      previous experience. But there is no separate
      mechanism in the first place.

      Bill or Karen or Abdul are merely names given to
      particular temporary arisings in Consciousness. The
      whole notion of reincarnation is based on the
      notion of separateness. Once it is seen that all
      there is is Consciousness then what incarnates and
      reincarnates is also seen as Consciousness. From
      the standpoint of the sage all is One, and all of
      the expressions are an expression of the One.

      Wayne Liquorman



      This is what I entered on my live journal today:

      For some reason, keeping a live journal, actually
      has little appeal.I guess it is because there is
      little personal consideration with the thoughts
      that arise during the day. Thoughts come and go,
      not as often as they used to. Still, though, most
      of them don't have much value.

      I have a habit of discarding most of what I think.
      It is either silly or irrelevant. Very little tends
      to be disconcerting anymore. Still, I see the
      tendency to grasp at some of the things I do think
      about. It is there, part of being a human.

      When I am working, I do think. If I don't, using
      power tools becomes quiet a dicey proposition. And
      mistakes in workmanship will occur. My temporary
      employer commented to me that it was good to have
      someone around who could think. I just laughed and
      said - sometimes! We both laughed at that.

      There was a time, most of my life actually, that I
      did identify with every thought. Especially when
      the thought was coupled with emotion. Sure, doesn't
      everybody? heeheehee Sure do!

      There is something I would like to express. In
      order to do so I use the intellect and allow
      emotion to flow. That is, I don't try to stifle
      emotion. If I do, the opening for what I want to
      say closes. The poetry that flows out sometimes
      astonishes me. No, I don't have any notions about a
      higher cause coming through me as some sort of a
      vessel. The poetry just comes.

      Here is a poem that I wrote a year or so ago about
      how the poems arrive.


      >From the quiet place
      Where the un-struck bell resounds
      Sweet poetry springs forth like nectar
      Quenching the desert of desire.


      Well, I did use change as a subject for this entry.
      Might as well write a word or two about the subject

      I have realized the absolute. That has had a
      profound impact on me as a character in this great
      game. These days I'll tell anybody that they are
      god in the flesh. The other day after work the boss
      took the two of us on the job site out for beers.
      We met another person in the bar. She, new to me,
      was an old business associate of the boss's.
      Somewhere in the course of the conversation, it was
      an appropriate moment, I said that the thing about
      god is that everything and everybody is god. I
      pointed to each of us at the table and said,"'he's
      god, your god, he's god, everything is god - and do
      you want to know what the big deal about it is?
      There is no big deal about it." Robin, the woman we
      met, just said, "I capiche!"

      Then the subject matter drifted off to sports and
      work and general stuff. What a hoot!

      Drama, drama, drama. Like space, drama never seems
      to end. It may be the quiet statment of a briiliant
      autumn sunset in Northern New Mexico, or it may be
      the fury of war in the world.

      Even those folk deemed as saints by other folk, yup
      - even the biggies like Jesus and Buddha, had
      dramatic lives. I have no problems with it being
      all so dramatic. Though I'll laugh or cry as quick
      as the next person, somehow, the attachment to the
      drama isn't there.

      I don't know how to convey the way I am now. There
      is a line from the Avadhut Gita that does a fair
      job of explaining it.

      "I am passionate with dispassion. Who can explain

      As a character in this game of life I have been
      looking for a way to convey to the other characters
      who they really are. It is a great irony to those
      like me, who see only god in all people and things,
      to try to help other characters see themselves as
      god. Capiche?


      Ciao paesano, Michael

      Capisco benissimo.

      Your words are so wise and clear.
      Drama is a seduction,
      and becomes our identity when we attach to it.

      May you keep writing your insightful thoughts.
      They are received here with gratitude.

      Con piacere,


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