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Friday, October 26

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  • jerry@nonduality.com
    ERIC BLACKSTEAD Dear Dan (& Friends), Ennio Marricone, the Flamenco nondualist asks, When did a confirmed Advaitist decide that that was this ? I
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 28, 2001
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      ERIC BLACKSTEAD

      Dear Dan (& Friends),

      Ennio Marricone, the Flamenco nondualist asks,
      "When did a confirmed Advaitist decide that "that"
      was "this"? I understand "You are That", but I'm
      still working on "You are This".

      DAN BERKOW

      Yes, exactly.

      This is *this* is this.

      The subtlety of the utterly obvious
        and unveiled.

      As this is *this*, there is no
        this that is not *That*, and
        every this is entirely *That*,
        so that each this is every
        that and every that is *this* ...

      <Whistling Ennio>

      ____________________________________________________________________

      JAN BARENDRECHT

      on a hazy day
      sky and ocean seem to play
      seek the borderline

      those who know won't tell
      birds of prey in brown
      and black
      silence is their way

      no sound to be heard
      silence and a borderline?
      silence does not play
      _______________________________________________________________________

      DAN BERKOW

      Reality is beyond the division
        subject/object.

      There is no ignorance except
        when subject/object is taken
        as if true.

      There is no one to free from ignorance,
        for that subject doesn't exist, and
        the object "ignorance" from which to
        be free, doesn't exist.

      There is no "until" unless you have
        accepted a subject/object separation
        as real.

      So, the only thing to do is be clear that
        subject/object division is illusory,
        based on memory and without substance.
        This includes the
        division into a "Dan" who once didn't
        know something and now knows something,
        and a "Matthew" who knows whatever he knows.

      All previous reality, identity,
        and time dissolves as memory
        has no basis for the divisions maintained,
        particularly subject/object.

      The reason the subject/object division is
        taken as real is, essentially, because
        it seems real until its self-validating
        structures are questioned.

      The more deeply you question, the
        more you reveal, the more you reveal,
        the deeper the question.

      You are the question and the answer,
        beyond a subject or object.

      ______________________________________________________________________

      JB789

      .. gee, this one is difficult to put in words ..

      All this ego-business, that we are so intersted in
      to enquire into and tear to pieces.. I wonder now,
      what is actually the point ?..

      For example, Gary writes : "So is there anything
      substantial to base memory on apart from other
      memories? What is memory then but a conceptual
      picture, an idealized form." He questions whether
      Time is just a concept. It seems so. But how about,
      "memory, picture, substantial", are these not Also
      concepts ? If so, are we not still swimming in the
      same 'soup' ? Saying that the soup-structure is not
      'real', is part of the soup.. no?

      But my question is .. what Is wrong with this
      'soup' ? I am identified with the body.. take care
      of it and if someone attacks I will probably do
      what I can to protect it. It might be Mother
      Nature's mechanics. What's wrong with that ? .. or
      with the brain's preference for this or that,.. or
      even making a picture of a person who is always
      agressive, and so being on the watch. In that might
      be involved anger even prejudice .. it does not
      sound terribly nice .. but these soup-fragments Are
      there, functioning for some purpose, to protect the
      inner universe that extends to the skin. I do not
      recall, 'me'/ego putting these there. And even if
      it did/does, apart from the ego's becoming a
      4-letter word, .. what's wrong with it ? But then,
      there come the spiritual/enlightened ones, who tell
      us :"Yes but listen.. living like that (as ego)
      might be good for the protection of your personal
      universe, BUT it separates/isolates you from THE
      Universe. So leave your ego, and become a beatiful
      and blissful Universal Identity". .. and being
      tempted, the circus of 'spiritual' fragments
      looking at and battling with and interpretting the
      'not so spiritual' ones, begins. So now, one is
      still in the soup, and the difference between a
      spiritual-soup and the normal-soup being that the
      spir.-soup has incorporated a tribe of
      anti-normal-soup Anarchists .. which gives its own
      extra aches to the head. And the play goes on.

      And I wonder, whether the anti-normal-soup
      'spiritual' gang, is of any benefit or brings a
      mere extra complication to life ?

      Why let that gang in, to begin with ?!

      You might say.. "well you have already answered
      that yourself.. 'cause that's the way mother nature
      made you.. so what's wrong with that .. why make a
      problem out of it ?" But the fact is that one does
      make a 'problem' out of it.. and you might say "so
      what's wrong with that ?.. it is as it is".

      Well maybe that's "the end of the famous rope".. or
      maybe not.. maybe just a big despair-'headache'..
      and you might say : "so why do you make a problem
      out of it ? .. he he .." So I just go home and turn
      on the TV. Surrendering to my normal-soup. But the
      'spiritual gang' is watching too.. commenting. But
      if I turn on the TV volume high enough,.. I cannot
      hear its comments so clearly any longer. And the
      neigbour's Mother Nature makes him to come and kick
      butt .. Now, That's a problem !

      So .. what then ?!

      I can hear you whisper "this chap is certainly Not
      at the eotr.." .. So I say "what's wrong with that
      ?". And you say "your post says after all 'I was
      Thinking'.. well, _That's_ your problem !" Yes but,
      I thought you said why make problem out of anything
      ?!.. "Well, if you do not want to be the Universal
      Self, that's your problem.." So back to square one.
      No ?!

      That was a monologue.. comments welcome.

      GARY MERRILL

      Yes I think I ended up saying it was all
      conceptual. And to say 'conceptual' is still
      conceptual. So there is no good guy or bad guy. I
      think the mind would like it all worked out that
      way so that it has a position and can keep
      mechanically on in opposition.

      If there is such a thing as 'love' which would be
      the point rather than an intellectual exercise in
      seeing the limitations of 'truth' then it would not
      be bound by any concept or found (in time) in any
      system. We have the system of 'conceptualising', a
      system of 'non-conceptualising' would be the same
      game.

      So at the end of time, at the end of becoming,
      changing; at the end of opposition, which is
      implied in pursuit of any form, is there love?
      Otherwise all our talk will not be enough.
       

      MICHAEL READ
       

      Ego! Who gives a rats ass! heeheehee

      Yup, the so-called spiritual ones sure do give a
      lot of weight (at times) to the BATTLE AGAINST THE
      EGO. What a farce...

      Ego is just a mechanism, a tool, for survival. Yah?
      It is a natural thingy. Nothing to be afraid of.
      Sure, it (ego) can become out of balance, so to
      speak. No one cares for an ego-maniac - they tend
      to be such boors. hohoho

      Hmm... Just thought of something. Try this -
      substitute the word elbow for the word ego. OK?
      And, nose for the word truth.

      Now, dear seeker, you must overcome the elbow to
      find the nose.

      Silly, isn't it?

      JB789

      thanks Michael, very clear ..

      And yet (sorry :)) .. if overcoming the elbow will
      Not bring me to the nose, how then, shall I
      discover it ?

      My 'something' says : 'by Not trying to overcome
      anything.' But the trying Is happening.. say I, So
      how is it going to stop, if it is not overcome by
      something ? Is it going to stop if I just go thru
      life stumbling while chanting my daily (b)la-(b)la
      ? "Well" 'something' says..: "ask Michael". But
      Michael will call me a 'seeker' and say it's silly
      ... :o( "of course you're silly ! .. Michael will
      just say : hohoho ".

      Is that right Michael ? just : hohoho ?! :( Or
      something a bit less nondualistic ? :)

      GRACIE

      i was also thinking, and i dont think time ends.
      living creatures will lose their bodily forms, but
      time will continue and consciousness will continue
      with it i think. if what we know as time ceases to
      exist, who or what would/could cause such a massive
      change in the natural order of things? everything
      that lives must age and die eventually, without
      what we refer to as time, how would this be
      accomplished? i think that it may be denoted
      differently when we move beyond our bodily
      constraints, but still exist. consider, even here
      time is denoted differently in the ages of humans
      and dogs. a dog is said to age 7 years to 1 human
      year and to Grandfather(God), 10,000 years may be
      but a day. what we refer to as time seems to be
      timeless, it just varies in its denotation
      depending on where we are in the great circle.
       

      ______________________________________________________________________

      MICHAEL READ

      turn attention away
      from the toys of childhood
      the things you suppose you want
      and need

      turn attention onto attention
      onto awareness itself
      then understanding dawns
      and joy reigns supreme

      whether you awaken
      or remain in slumberous dream
      you are the eternal awareness
      of this there is no doubt

      awareness is in bondage to itself
      compassion and acceptance,
      what else is there?
      only shadows and reflections
      of that eternal light

      belief fails
      in the passion
      of understanding

      peace - and pass the love around - michael

      _______________________________________________________________________

      MATTHEW FILES

      If you can live without caffeine,

      If you can be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains,

      If you can resist complaining,

      If you can eat the same food every day and be
      grateful for it,

      If you can understand when your loved ones are too
      busy to give you time any time,

      If you can overlook it when those you love take it
      out on you when, though no fault of your own,
      something goes wrong,

      If yo can take criticism and blame without
      resentment,If you can ignore a friends limited
      education and never correct him/her,

      If you can resist treating a rich friend better
      than a poor friend,

      If you can face the world without lies and deciet,

      If you can conquer tension without medical help,

      If you can relax without liquor,

      If you can sleep without the aid of drugs,

      If you can honestly say that deep in your heart you
      have no prejudice against creed, color religion,
      gender, or politics,

      THEN, you have ALMOST reached the same level of
      developement as your dog.
       
       

      --
      http://nonduality.com
      http://nonduality.net
      http://nonduality.org
      http://www.livejournal.com/users/awesboss
       

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