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Thursday, October 25

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  • jerry@nonduality.com
    HUR GULER What is the nature of consciousness? Is it limited to humans? Does free will exist? Read on for one scientist s view. This interview was conducted by
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 26, 2001
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      What is the nature of consciousness? Is it limited
      to humans? Does free will exist? Read on for one
      scientist's view.

      This interview was conducted by Lauren Aguirre,
      Executive Editor for NOVA Online.

      PBS Online | NOVA Online | WGBH




      Just to add to this ad hoc symposium on the 60's
      and 70's, I thought someone should mention the
      specific encounter between psychedelics and a
      realized Master that created as great an influence
      on the spiritual life of young American's as
      anything before or since. I'm refering to the story
      that Ram Dass, formerly Richard Alpert of Harvard
      and LSD fame, told about giving a massive dose of
      acid to his not yet guru, Neem Karoli Baba. He gave
      him about 1,000 micrograms, 3 separate doses, and
      then watched him all day. He said baba just
      "twinkled" at him, and aside from that, nothing.

      Don't let me spoil it for you. Be Here Now sold
      about a Gazillion copies, and if you haven't yet
      read it, it's a must. A few intrepid souls read it
      and, within days embarked for India with no further
      preparation, to search for a guru whose address and
      location Ram Dass had purposely left out of the
      book. It's a big continent, but they found him. The
      rest is American cultural history.

      The same group of people who helped Ram Dass
      publish Be Here Now later brought out Miracle of
      Love, an illustrated collection of stories about
      Neem Karoli Baba told by his devotees, both Indian
      and American,that I can unreservedly recommend as
      the finest book ever compiled about the experience
      of living with an Indian Master.

      Oh yes, Ram Dass gave Maharaj another chance at the
      acid on a subsequent trip to India, because he
      wasn't sure he could believe what he'd previously
      seen. The 2nd trip, Neem Karoli allowed as how
      yogis in the Kuru valley had had something similar
      in the distant past, but that was all Ram Dass
      could get out of him.



      A question. Is time real or only a concept?

      We obviously take for granted the reality of time,
      making plans, looking back at our lives and looking
      forward to our futures.

      But I wonder if this `time' is just a conceptual
      construct. If so it would mean that objects have no
      identity, no continuity from moment to moment.

      But it is of the very nature of conceptualizing to
      posit, to imply identity. All our talking and
      thinking is meaningless without it.

      It would also mean that memory is constantly in
      operation giving substance to the `world' in order
      that it might be identified.

      But is there any `true picture' that can be
      substantiated beyond the conditioned mind that
      believes that something is so.

      I am real, therefore everything is real is a deep

      So is there anything substantial to base memory on
      apart from other memories?

      What is memory then but a conceptual picture, an
      idealized form.

      And must we always live inside this view, of time
      and identity?

      Or can it be that there is no foundation to any of
      this, no basis for truth, and that conceptual
      living may therefore drop?


      I am a member here but rarely post and my memory
      doesnt serve to say we have met previously so i
      hope you wont mind if i respond to you. time seems
      to me to be fluid. moving and changing without
      regard for the petty wishes or desires of humans.
      some of us do make plans for our futures, long
      drawn out plans to reach years into the future.
      others however, have a difficult time seeing beyond
      6 months, a year is a vast expanse in their
      estimation. this thing that we call time is real i
      think, but the act of naming it is a concept
      devised by the human mind. we are creatures of
      structure typically. having a need to bestowe on
      everything a name by which to discuss it at a later
      date. the only purpose of having such labels is to
      be able to clearly converse with other humans. so
      are these labels really of great importance? i
      think not. it gives us a comfort zone, a frame of
      reference, nothing more. as for reality, if i am
      not real how do i feel such things as pain,
      pleasure, happiness, hunger, fatigue? i am sure you
      have noticed, but i am not really a non-dualist,
      just curious and like to learn. just simple


      Consider me crazy, a softy, sissy, feminine,
      whatever. Consider me a dualistic fool. But the
      fact remains I love you. So why shouldn't I let you
      know? Upto now I was a coward, now I don't care. I
      Love you.

      Love is the most powerful force on earth. It does
      not weaken you. Nobody can take advantage of you
      because of love. Try it yourself and see its power.

      I love everybody. It matters not if you are my
      'enemy' or you hate me, I still love you. I also
      love the Timothy McVeighs and the Osamas of the
      world. Just look at their eyes, don't you see
      sorrow there? If you see hate then you are not
      looking deep enough. Hate is only a surface thing,
      deep down there is love. Every human being is in
      bondage. Firstly bond by the limitations of the
      body and the mind and then by time and space. So
      every human I see, I see someone who is suffering
      and thus in need of love.

      However, it is not mental. It rises naturally. You
      have this unconditional love too but you are used
      to suppressing it. Find out why you cannot even
      tell your near and dear ones, "I love you".

      LOVE IS ALL. Even God was about to explode with
      unexpressed love, thus came into being the Universe
      and duality. That was the big bang ... bottled up
      love being released!


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