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10/22/01 Monday

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  • Gloria Lee
    ******************* CHRISTIANA Gene - breathing the crucible of fire, stream and space Dear Gene.. I spent the day in direct relationship with the precision of
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 23, 2001
       Gene - breathing the crucible of fire, stream and space

      Dear Gene..
      I spent the day in direct relationship with the precision of your words... entrained through the various portals you hold open. Pulsations of lightfire, wateressence and spaceheart. Crucible and breathe.
      As I read your commentary on the 'diehold', its holography as an archetypal mold, as well as it's relationship with suffering, I was moved by the homonym... dye. For the dye to 'hold', salt is used, and the fabric is colored forever as such; unless, of course, other 'agents' intervene. I then thought about salt, and the salt produced by the tears of suffering. As if on 'cue' your last lines spoke....
      To identity, reality tastes like salt-water;
      but for the realizer, it is the purest spring
      to saltless tears from the font of pure beauty... to relaxing and being absorbed by the space 'outside'..
      Hello Hur...

      Your post brought me to my knees. I am actively listening. Perhaps
      that is the only true space many of us know to go. Our political
      impotence seems wedded to witnesses our collective heart being broken
      open. We can sign or march or speak out (as you've done), but I think
      the forces at work are beyond our control.

      If you, or others, think otherwise, do please speak. So much energy
      is being released as 'force'. The only small part I know is to open
      to the interstice of power in each moment. To witness the temptations
      to squander. To abide as though our lives depended upon it.

      Still chewing on the notion of 'nondual activism'.



      A terrorist willingly dies, God opens another can of virgins.

      Something other than the current war is needed to handle this.

      Those willing to die need to see that the cupboard is empty except for a
      can of creamed corn that God is going to eat when we're all full.


      > It's scary how often I use the expression "I" when I write. 
      > Laura

      ah don't be scared - halloween is coming and you can use the 'I' for
      a really scary costume!

      Yah, all kinds of systems and religions are available - to explore and
      spend time contemplating and defend, even.

      However - the whole thing is really rather simple.

      There is nothing to believe in. Well, there is a lot of stuff to
      believe in, if a person wants to. Still it is just stuff to believe

      all there is, is god - god is all there is

      simple? yes
      simple? no

      Well, there is really nothing wrong with being an 'I' or an 'i'
      You could be and I for and i or and i for an I.
      Either way works.

      loveya - michael

      I've created a Michael Read Web Page, which includes links to several of
      his articles scattered throughout the website, as well a bunch of
      Michael's recent writings, which has been very 'alive' and free.


      Jerry Katz


      Hi Laura,

      I long for days when I'd drive out to the Bodhi Tree bookstore on
      Melrose in Los Angeles, look for that 'certain' book, find it, go to a
      favorite coffee shop (they've all been torn down) and read, looking for
      something that would bring me to the next level. Then home and to the
      beach where I'd run five or ten miles and maybe gain an insight or two.
      But I can't do it anymore. In other words, I hope you're getting some
      joy out of what you're doing and 'going through', because it won't last

      Of course I'm a nostalgia freak. I long for the old days of this list,
      which will never come back either. We've matured too much.

      Call me the Neal Cassady of nonduality. Dont I wish...?

      always lookin for new thrills,


      People still hold the view that what is handed down to us by tradition is
      what in reality lies behind us - while in fact it comes toward us because we
      are its captives and destined to it.  The purely historical view of
      tradition and the course of history is one of those vast self-deceptions in
      which we must remain entangled as long as we are still not really thinking.
      That self-deception about history prevents us from hearing the language of
      the thinkers.  We do not hear it rightly, because we take that language to
      be mere expression, setting forth philosophers' view.  But the thinkers'
      language tells what is.  To hear it is in no case easy.  Hearing it
      presupposes that we meet a certain requirement, and we do so only on rare
      occasions.  We must acknowledge and respect it.  To acknowledge and respect
      consists in letting every thinker's thought come to us as something in each
      case unique, never to be repeated, inexhaustible - and being shaken to the
      depths by what is unthought in his thought.  What is unthought in a
      thinker's thought is not a lack inherent in his thought.  What is un-thought
      is there in each case only as the un-thought.  The more original the
      thinking, the richer will be what is unthought in it.  The unthought is the
      greatest gift that thinking can bestow.  But to the commonplaces of sound
      common sense, what is unthought in any thinking always remains merely the
      incomprehensible.  And to the common comprehension, the incomprehensible is
      never an occasion to stop and look at its own powers of comprehension.
      "This silence is language; it may speak more eloquently than any words...it
      is the primordial attunement of one existence to another, out of which all
      language comes.  It is only because man is capable of such silence that he
      is capable of authentic speech.  If he ceases to be rooted in that silence
      all his talk becomes chatter."
      .......By Martin Heidegger

      Great quote Gloria!

      I like Heidegger's phrase that the more original the thought is, the richer will be the unthought in it.

      Also, as the region of thought grows, the border to the unthought grows along with it. This shows the futility of achieving omniscience and eradicating ignorance simply by accumulating knowledge. Imagine the region of what is thought as the inside of a circle, the "thinker's" vantage point at the center. The border or circumference is the interface with the unknown, the unthought. The unknown, unthought lies beyond. As the circle grows, the border grows. As the thinker in the center looks upon the edge of the known, the region of ignorance is ever-growing.

      In other words, the more ya know, the more ya don't know!



      Hello friends, Reading through, trying to fathom some of Gene's stuff is a real trip, enjoyable. In bracketing this pass from Merton I attempt to get a handle on a process which Gene says is "open-ended." The "terrible breaking and burning of idols" seems maybe to refer to one's evolution from mainstream theism onward to/thru various psychic, subtle, nondual realms?? I don't know, just a thought. What think ye?
      Gene, your recent posts lead me to ask;  Are there limits, or not, to that which can be made intelligible? Haven't you said before, maybe it was Dan, that truth is in language, and only in language? Is there any alternative for one lacking the power of articulation/vocabulary/language/semantics?
      Thanks, John
      Let no one hope to find in contemplation[nonduality] an escape from conflict, from
      anguish or from doubt.  On the contrary,the deep, inexpressible certitude of
      the contemplative[nondual] experience awakens a tragic anguish and opens any questions
      in the depths of the heart like wounds that cannot stop bleeding...  The worst of it is that
      even apparently holy conceptions are consumed along with all the rest.
      It is a terrible breaking and burning of idols, a purification of the
      sanctuary, so that no graven thing may occupy that place that God[the unknown] has
      commanded to be left empty:  the center, the existential altar which
      simply "is."        T. Merton

      You risked your life, but what else have you ever risked?
      Have you ever risked disapproval? Have you ever risked
      economic security? Have you ever risked a belief? I see
      nothing particularly courageous in risking one's life. So
      you lose it, you go to your hero's heaven and everything
      is milk and honey 'til the end of time. Right? You get your
      reward and suffer no earthly consequences. That's not
      courage. Real courage is risking something you have to
      keep on living with, real courage is risking something that
      might force you to rethink your thoughts and suffer
      change and stretch consciousness. Real courage is risking
      one's cliches.
                             Tom Robbins, Another Roadside Attraction

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